Clint Eastwood Forums

General Information => General Discussion => Topic started by: maddog_frenzy on May 09, 2003, 08:51:30 PM

Title: Clint's Guns
Post by: maddog_frenzy on May 09, 2003, 08:51:30 PM
I'd kill to see a list of all the guns (no pun intended) Clint used in each of his movies. I believe that the incredibly large .44 mag semi-automatic he used in Dirty Harry is a modified/custom Magnum Research handgun, and most on this board agree that in Good/Bad/Ugly, he uses a Sharp's buffalo gun...




Comment by moderator, 5/21: This has become such a great thread, thanks to D'Ambrosia, that we mods have agreed to make it "sticky,"  so it stays at the top of the topics in the forum. That way it can serve as a reference for the site for all sorts of gun questions.

And I'd like to ask that everyone respect D'Amb's hard work here and refrain from making any posts that might take it off topic. If you have any questions about his research, or you have anything to add about any of the guns (but please make sure you know your stuff!), that's fine, but otherwise, let's let him work in peace!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 11, 2003, 12:35:33 PM
This does indeed sound like a fun project for me to tackle.  Give me a few days to get my movies straight and I wiil give my two bits soon... 8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: ajay on May 11, 2003, 11:51:49 PM
sudden impact saw a very unusual gun, any body knows about this one.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 16, 2003, 09:19:01 PM
Well, if I’m to do this right, and I’d very much like to, I’d like to start in chronological order from first gun to last….

Clint has the capability to use these guns...  I will list all guns that he may have had use of, but may or may not have used in the movies.

Francis in the Navy 1955 as Lieutenant Anders  and  All Away Boats 1956 as a sailor:
 
The PT Boat
(http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:P2XGiCHGwlEC:www.navsource.org/archives/10/10011808.jpg)
40 mm Bofors cannon, aft.
Twin 50 cal. machine guns port and starboard
20 mm Oerlikon forward
37 mm Automatic forward
4 MK VIII torpedoes in tubes,
 * later boats had 4 MK XIII torpedoes on racks
Depth Charges
Mortar
Rockets
Smoke Generator
Small Arms
Hand Grenades


Tarantula: 1955

F86 Saber Jet (America's Mig):
(http://www.goodrichtoysoldiers.com/98250_F-86_Sabre_small.jpg)

Armament: Four M-39 20mm cannon or six .50-cal. machine guns; eight 5 in. rockets, 2,000 lbs. of bombs, napalm or nuclear weapons.

Ambush at Cimarron Pass:
Unknown at this time. Anyone seen Clint in this one?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 16, 2003, 11:56:51 PM
Fistful Of Dollars-1964 and For A Few Dollars More-1965

The six shooter that Joe carries in Fistful of Dollars is an 1873 Colt SAA- Peacemaker.  The image below does not depict the famous walnut silverplated snake handled grips that Yates, Joe, Manco and Blondie wield in Rawhide, FFD, FFDM and GBU (which, infact, the same gun that was used in Rawhide is  the same gun used in  FFD and FFDM by Joe and Manco)   If I'm real lucky KC might post up the little story behind Rowdy comming across that particular firearm...:)  8)

I believe that Joe (Fistful of dollars) [/b] and Manco (For a Few Dollars More) had the 5 1/2 inch barrel:
1873 SAA Colt Peacemaker.  .45 cal with a 5 1/2 inch barrel:

(http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/cim_1873colt_mod_P_big.jpg)


The beautiful deep walnut pure silver inlet rattlesnake grips that Yates, Joe, Manco and Blondie acquire and wear throughout...
(http://www.spaghettiwesternreplicas.com/images/gripprod.jpg)

Manco uses the same exact gun in For A Few Dollars More (Or does he ;) ) Manco could, infact, have an '77 ...   so I'll just move on to The Good The Bad  and the Ugly...
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 17, 2003, 08:33:55 PM
The Good The Bad And The Ugly--1966

The pistol that Blondie uses in the Good the Bad and the Ugly is a modified 1851 Navy Colt (modified, no doubt, by a dubious gunsmith).  It has been converted to fire metallic cartridges which was extremly rare in the day but a few guns around then could fire these bullets (Smith and Wesson).  The technology was there but the mass production was not.  Both the Union and Confederate States stalled and delayed the new metallic cartridges in fear of their armies wasting ammunition and costing too much to manufacter.   

One of the most popular of Civil War revolvers was the Colt Model 1851 in 36 caliber. Around 250,000 were made by Colt between 1850 and 1873. It had a six shot cylinder and a 7-1/2" octagonal barrel. The standard cylinder featured an engraved scene of a naval battle. The Navy designation meant it was 36 caliber. 44 Caliber were known as Army, but both terms are merely convenient marketing designations.  This model was carried by such different men as Robert E. Lee as the Confederate Commanding General and by Wild Bill Hickock as the Sheriff of Abilene.  It was loaded with loose blackpowder and a bare bullet, referred to as "cap and ball," or with paper cartridges. Loading a cap and ball revolver is from the front of the cylinder. Misfires in cap and ball revolvers were more common than in the subsequent metallic cartridge guns. The misfire problem was well enough known to be commented on when it didn't happen after unusual circumstances. The '51 Colt carried by Robert E. Lee made the commentaries. When it was shot after his death in 1870, every chamber fired when it had last been loaded during the middle of the War about seven years earlier.
The '51 Colt Navy was the first gun to be made as a replica in the 1950s. The markup prototype was assembled in 1949 for Italian production


Here is a shot of Blondies revolver.  Brass was used in abundence durning the war due to how cheap it was compared to steel.  All guns in the period could have been made out of one or the other it was just a matter of cost.
(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/GBUGun1.JPG)



Clearly you can see that there are brass pieces on Blondies gun there.

Below is another shot of Blondies gun with the now leagendary metallic cartiridges...

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/GBUGun2.JPG)


The Gun the that Blondy uses in The Good the Bad and the Ugly seems to be some sort of Super Modified Bad-Ass Gun; Pre-prototye Richards Conversion as seen below:

The closest I could find to Blondie's modified 1851 Navy Colt with silver rattlesnake grips (See Above)

(http://www.armsportllc.com/colt_1851_navy.jpg)


The earlier convertions still left the loading lever in place and did not have ejector rod prevalent to the Colt ‘73’s  The conversions started to add ejector rods around the same time colt came out with the Peacemaker, however many revolvers still had the intact  loading lever as well as none at all…

Although there were metallic cartridges during the Civil War (Smith and Wesson, .44 Henry Rimfire, .22 Short and .56-56 Spencer to name a few) Leone thought to put the barrel of an 1851 Colt Navy on the frame of an 1851 Navy that had been changed to the Richards-Mason cartridge conversion which didn't happen until 1871?  

1871 is when the breech loader patent held by Smith and Wesson ran out and companies could began to manufacture legally bore though cylinders.  

However who is to say that if you had enough money and knew the right gunsmith and had access to metallic cartridges, well,   Faster to reload and saves time - I suppose that was their reason. Even better, look at Lee Van Cleef's belt - you will see metallic cartridges in the loops, even though there are percussion caps on the cylinder of his revolver.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 18, 2003, 07:44:01 PM
Your right about the rifle maddog it is indeed an 1860 Henry Repeating Rifle as seen below.  This is Tucos life saver for much of the movie...

The Good The Bad And The Ugly    1860  Henry Rifle 
(http://www.wyandottraditions.com/1860-henry-rifle-blue-24.jpg)

The Henry rifle story is a very interesting story. It was the first successful repeating rifle that evolved into some of the best lever action rifles in the world, the Winchesters.  The first of the Winchesters was the Model 1866.  This rifle was nothing more than an improved Henry using the same ammunition.  The Model 1866 included a redesigned magazine that was not opened to dirt.  It loaded by means of a loading gate in the right side of the receiver.  The Model 1866 also had a wooden forearm stock to protect against burns during prolong shooting.  This is getting a little ahead of our story.  The use of the Henry begins in the Civil War.

The Henry played an important role during the Civil War, mainly in the western theater. It was used from the very beginning to the bitter end of the Civil War.  The soldiers developed confidence when using their Henrys that did not exist with a muzzle loader. The Henry rifle was the first of the truly rapid fire small arms that was practical.  However the United States government did not adopt a repeating rifle until the Model 1892 Krag.

The Henry rifle made a name for itself on the American frontier of the 1860's to1880's. It was not replaced until those using Henrys could replace them with a more modern weapon. The Henry was used by ranchers and soldiers as well as Indians. Custer found this out too late. In fact there is one hill located at the Little Bighorn that is known as Henry Hill because of the large number of Henry casings that were discovered there.

The Henry underwent very few changes during its production.  The butt plate was changed slightly and some guns do not have a lever latch. There was an iron frame Henry but most Henrys were brass frame. The sights were mounted on the frame or the barrel. The barrel length was standard at 24 inches but some examples may be found with shorter barrels. The ammunition remained the same throughout production. It was a 216 grain bullet and 26 to 28 grains of black powder.

Today original Henrys are collectors’ items commanding high prices. These start at around $6,000 and go up from there.  There has not been ammunition produced for years and what can be found is also highly collectable and too expensive to shoot.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 18, 2003, 09:25:25 PM
I almost forgot the Civil War Field Gun.  Unable to locate exact image but close enough for government work.  I think     Blondy fires off a ten pounder at Tuco lighting the fuse with his cigar:
(http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:KGhGFmL23EkJ:www.buggy.com/Images/cannon.jpg)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on May 18, 2003, 09:56:59 PM
D'Amb, this is wonderful stuff! Please keep it up.  8)

I was hoping I could find my post from a couple of years back about how Rowdy Yates acquired his Peacemaker ... but it seems to be lost. However, the gist was this, as I once posted on the Leone board ...

Quote
It was the second episode to air ... "Incident at Alabaster Plain," 1/16/1959. [Mark] Richman played a bad guy with a showy gun and a crying need for an anger management program. In the end, he was dead and Rowdy got his revolver,

Here's the gun's first appearance, in the gunbelt worn by Richman's character ...
(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/Snake1.JPG)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 20, 2003, 02:32:52 AM
 8)  Cool, thanks KC....

Hang 'Em High -1968

(http://www.clinteastwood.net/filmography/pics/hangem.jpg)

1st Generation 2nd model (#3) '86 Colt Peacemaker .38 Winchester Centerfire
(http://mackysranch.fc2web.com/img/colt_saa2nd_cava38nickel_1.jpg)
 

Jed Cooper uses a #3 2 model '86 Single Action Army Colt Peacemaker (drop the Navy nomenclature) a step up from the ’73 that Joe and Manco use with a .45cal and a step up from the second model '77 that fired a .44  

The Colt Single Action Big Bore Trio was completed in 1886 as the second '73 Winchester chambering was added with the .38-40 or .38 Winchester Center Fire. This time the same powder charge of forty grains propelled a 180 grain bullet.

So it fired a rifle metallic cartridge just as it’s predecessors did?   Interesting?  

The ’86 fires a 38-40 or .38 Winchester Center Fire. This time the same powder charge Cooper had of forty grains, propelled a .38 cal180 grain bullet, as opposed to Joe’s and Manco’s  larger and heavier 200 grain .45 bullet ’73.

 If we establish that FFDM takes place after or before ’86, that is the question…?     That would actually make Manco’s  revolver a 2nd model ’77 Peacemaker but who wants to get technical?….    I’m still not convinced that Manco is not in the time period of the  latter half of the 1880’s thus, possibly, making his pistol a 3rd model’77 Peacemaker but we’d have to establish the year of the movie now wouldn’t we?.  ::)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 20, 2003, 11:08:10 PM
Coogan's Bluff 1968
(http://www.clinteastwood.net/filmography/pics/coogan.jpg)

It’s hard telling because there is no real clear glimpse of the rifle Coogan uses to apprehend the Chief at the beginning of the movie.  With the very distinctive Stock Shape, the length of the lever down the handle and the relatively small trigger guard, it  looks to me to be a Mossberg 472 lever action repeater that center fires a .35 Remington cartridge.  I dug out the old VHS made from tv from 10 years ago so it’s not like I had the nice freeze frame zoom DVD quality that I normally while doing these comparisons.  It cold just as well be a Winchester but the stock looks two funky to be…The .35 Remington ballistics are as follows: a 200 grain cartridge has a muzzle velocity of 2,080; 1,921 fps and muzzle energy of 1,762 ft. lbs.  Although the Remington rifles it was designed for originally are long but forgotten the cartridge lives today still being used in a wide variety of rifles must notably the Marlin 336 lever action rifle, much similer to Coogan’s Mossberg also known as the brush gun...

Mossberg lever action repeater Center-Fire Rifle:

  (http://www.havlinsales.com/472.jpg)  



The pistola he carries, once again I must refer back to the quality of my source material, seems to be, in the brief three seconds we see it, a .38 Special.  Either Colt or Smith Wesson. Can’t really tell which (maybe when I get the DVD…J).  Sticking with the tradition of Joe,Manco, Blondy and Cooper,  I would like to think of it as a Colt .38 Special.  The difference between the two is that Colt is somewhat roundish  than the relatively boxier S&W.  The Space between the trigger guard and the handle on the S&W is much more sqaurded than the Colt.

.38 Special Colt Officers Model Heavy Barrel:

(http://www.sarcoinc.com/images/p17.jpg)

Smith and Wesson devised the regular .38 caliber black powder cartridge in 1877 for it’s revolvers of the day.  Colt also chambered revolvers for the cartridge, which they called the .38 Colt New Police.  In 1902 Smith & Wesson came out with the .38 Special cartridge, a 10th of inch longer than it’s predecessor.  The shell is one of  the all time favorite revolver cartridges. Since introduced it has become on of the must worldwide cartridges produced.  Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets thus making it possible to fire the .38 special cartridge out of a .357 Magnum handgun, but not the other way around…Typical factory loads give the standard pressure 158 grain lead bullet a muzzle velocity of 755 fps and 200 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy.  More wallop than the plain old .38

Not much to go on in this flick...
 ;)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Josey-Wales on May 21, 2003, 04:43:09 AM
Hello, first post.
Does anybody know what gun Clint uses in "The Outlaw Josey Wales"??

It has a strange bar running from the trigger to the barrel, never seen anything that exacally matches it.

nice site :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 21, 2003, 06:48:54 PM
Welcome to the board Josey-Wales. ;D

I had planned on doing these guns in chronological order in appearence of each movie from start to finish so just sit back and enjoy the ride....

However, if you can't wait till Joesy Wales comes around in this thread, you can view a previous disscussion we had on Joesy's Guns in this theard here:http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=137 (http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=137)  

I might mention that the rifle he uses is not a Spencer as I had suspected but that will soon be corrected.

And Ajay, the gun Clint uses at the end of  Sudden Impact is Automatic .44 Magnum More to come on this latter... ;)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 23, 2003, 10:40:27 PM
Where Eagles Dare--1969
(http://yuchtar.users4.50megs.com/Burt_Clint.jpg) (http://ibelgique.ifrance.com/cinedestin/films/q/quandlesaiglesattaquent.jpg)

Clint uses "The Machine Pistol", as it would translate from German, as a killing machine (as the narrator from The Man From Malpso called him) is that of a very clever German made cartridge.  Surly you've heard of it in one capacity or another.
 
 
 It very well may be the best cartridge ever invented.  the .9mm parabellum (very close to a .38 special)  German made and had this  kind of stuff in all sorts of weapons during the war.  Pistols,  Lugars, Sub-Machine Guns, Rifles, the whole lot....  Anyway the cartridge is still used today in all kinds of weapons from the Berretta to the Uzi....We were running around for the .30 and the .45 and the .50's  All they had to do is have one gun, one ammo the .9mm, (I mean, not in all respects of course...)

Anyhow, Lt. Shaffers German MP-40 .9mm  Sub-Machine Pistol AKA as the "Schmeisser"  You've seen it in old War flicks...:
(http://www.philaord.com/images/products/MP40A-mast.jpg)(http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:yq8ymdo-u00C:world.guns.ru/smg/mp40.jpg)The MP-40 9mm Schmeisser could fire upto 500 rounds  a minute spitting off a115 gr. FMJ 1375 ft/s at 3 impacts on 4" triangle.

(http://www.militarytour.com/Reproductions/ImagesReproduct/MP40.h1.jpg)
MP40 'Schmeisser', 1940*
  350-500 rpm
cal,mag,vel,rate  9,00 x 19 mm, 32 rnd mag, 380 m/s,
l,barrel_l,mass  629 mm, 251 mm, 3,97 kg
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 25, 2003, 12:18:20 PM
Kelly's Hereos- 1970
(http://victoryatseaonline.com/war/ww2/kelly/kelly-06.jpg)(http://victoryatseaonline.com/war/ww2/kelly/kelly-21.jpg)(http://victoryatseaonline.com/war/ww2/kelly/kelly-24.jpg)

The weapon Kelly uses is a Thompson Sub-Machine Gun, (Navy model of 1928) Also known as the Tommy Gun:
(http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/submachg/armsmg1/arm173.jpg)
Operation  Selective fire (fully and semi-automatic)
Caliber .45 (11.4 mm)
Muzzle velocity 280 mps (920 fps)
Ammunition .45 ACP, 230 gr bullet, 5 gr charge
Capacity Thompson (M1928A1): 50-round drum & 20- and 30-round detachable box magazine.
M1 and M1A1: 20-and 30-round detachable box magazine
Weight 4.9 kg (11 lbs)
Overall length 85.6 cm (33.7 in)
Rate of fire 600 to 725 rpm
Effective range 50m (55yds

A nice shot of one with a 50 round magazine:
(http://www.paladinarmory.com/Machin1.jpg)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 25, 2003, 02:14:26 PM
Manco with a Tommy Gun?
(http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/images/cowboy.gif)
A funny ad I found while doing some research....

A brief history of the Thompson Sub-Machine Gun:

  (http://www.oldcountrytours.com/graphics/winston.jpg)
Churchill with a "Tommy Gun"

Until the outbreak of the Spanish-American War in 1898, John Thompson’s military service was routine and uneventful. During the War, he used his weapons training to its fullest advantage. He became a small arms specialist, and took charge of the Army’s ordnance supplies and logistics.

At the start of the War he was promoted to Lt. Col., and appointed Chief Ordnance Officer under General Shafter in Cuba. Thompson was recognized for his skills in logistics, and was able to restore order to an Army supply system that had become hopelessly broken down. He was personally recognized for his efforts that helped deliver more than 18,000 tons of munitions to the War, without a single accident.

It was during this time that an event happened that would later result in the invention of the Submachine gun. Thompson was approached by 2nd Lt. John H. Parker, who had learned that fifteen Gatling guns were assigned to Thompson’s ordnance depot in Tampa Florida, without any orders for their disposition. Parker not only wanted the guns to use in the War, he also wanted to create a new Gatling gun detachment, and prove to the Army the effectiveness of rapid-fire weapons. (A very ambitious venture, considering the Army’s reluctance to upgrade even its main battle rifle, the antique single-shot Springfield, designed in the 1860’s.)

In 1904 Thompson and Col. Louis A. LaGarde conducted tests to find the caliber most suited for military handgun ammunition. The tests included firing shots into live cattle at a Chicago slaughterhouse, and into human cadavers obtained from medical schools. The conclusion? Large and slow moving bullets of about .45 caliber were much more destructive than smaller bullets moving at high velocity. With this knowledge in hand, Thompson was instrumental in developing the .45 caliber rimless cartridge, later adopted for use in the Colt Model 1911 pistol designed by John Browning. Eventually this same cartridge would be chambered in Thompson's Submachine gun.

In November 1914 he retired from the service with the intention of devoting his full time to perfecting an automatic rifle. He was to join Remington Arms Company as their Chief Engineer.  Thompson’s primary interest remained the development of an automatic rifle. He believed an "intermediate" automatic weapon in the ballistic class between the pistol and the rifle would be a requirement in future wars.

The first gun produced, bearing neither model or serial number, appeared in 1918 and was belt fed and with little resemblance to later Thompsons. This was followed by the Model 1919 in AS caliber. Provision was made for feeding by a box magazine while the rear grip was placed near the back of the receiver. One distinctive feature was the firing pin fabricated as forward extremity of the actuator. The cyclic rate of fire was approximately 1,000 rounds per minute. Some reports indicate that prototypes were made to fire various calibers.

In 1920 the prototype was tested by the U.S. Government. On April 27, 1920, the Springfield Armory conducted functioning tests of the weapon. Test results were impressive: 2,000 rounds were fired with only one stoppage. A few months later the Marine Corps tested the weapon with similar results.

Although the results were impressive, neither service recommended adoption.

Despite its excellent test performance, the Thompson was not adopted for use by either the US Army or Marine Corps. Still, Thompson contracted with Colt for the manufacture of 15,000 guns, designated "Thompson Submachine Gun, Model of 1921". The 15,000 guns manufactured by Colt lasted until the eve of World War II. In 1940, the U.S. Army ordered 20,000 Thompson submachine guns; in 1941 the Army ordered an additional 319,000.

Prior to this date, however, General Thompson's "trench broom" found great favor with the Prohibition-era gangsters of the Roaring Twenties, so much so in fact, that years before official adoption into military service, the Thompson SMG, alias the "Chicago typewriter," was fast becoming a household word.

Used by the Capone mob and equally violent factions during the gang wars of the 20's and 30's, the Thompson blazed its way into history in such a fashion that it is credited for largely contributing to the National Firearms Act of 1934, which was intended to keep concealable firearms, and silencers out of the hands of such individuals. Up until that time, the Thompson was available to anyone who had the money and wished to purchase it. Incidentally, the price tag on one of these guns, $200, was a considerable investment in the 1920s.



Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Mr. Pants on May 29, 2003, 09:57:27 AM
In Sudden Impact Eastwood uses a .44 Magnum Automag when his trusty .44 S&W is kicked into the water.

You can see a picture of it here: http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1600/1687.htm (http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1600/1687.htm)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on May 29, 2003, 08:00:51 PM
Thanks, Mr. Pants ... DAmbrosia is going through Clint's films chronologically. He'll post information about the Auto Mag (which is one of the best-known Eastwood guns) when he gets to Sudden Impact ... probably in a few weeks!

See the note at the beginning of this thread.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Mr. Pants on May 30, 2003, 12:05:52 AM
Oops, didn't mean to steal anyone's thunder. Sorry 'bout that. Carry on.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 30, 2003, 12:42:36 PM
Feel free to post away about Eastwoods Guns.  That's what this thread is all about. :)  I'll be getting around to every movie sooner or later. :P

Next Up:  Two Mules For Siter Sara

(http://www.sergioleone.net/dw-46.jpg)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 01, 2003, 08:58:32 PM
Two Mules For Sister Sara is a hard one.  The history of Cinco De Mayo, The Fifth Of May, commemorates the victory of the Mexicans over the French army at The Battle Of Puebla in 1862.  Hogan and Sara keep referring to June 15th. Like six weeks after?

Even though the French lost the battle of Cinco De Mayo to inferior forces and it was a great victory over the French by the Mexicans the French still managed to rule the country until the late 60s early 70s    It might have taken place in the early 1870s when the last of the French pack up and went home?

In any case the revolver he uses is most definitely a Colt Peace Maker.  It was virtually impossible to get a proto-type of this gun before 1872ish unless you go with my “Jordan of Gun fighting” theory were if you knew the right gunsmith and had enough money you could have them fitted to accept and fire off metallic rifle cartridges through a bore through cylinder.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on June 01, 2003, 11:07:45 PM
D'Amb, for what it's worth ... I believe the date Sara and Hogan keep referring to is July 14 ... Bastille Day, the French national holiday. Year not specified.

Since the Emperor Maximilian was executed by firing squad in June 1867, it would seem safe to assume that the action of this film takes place before then.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 02, 2003, 05:45:16 PM
Interesting KC.  So if Maximillion was executed in June 67 surely the French troops would not be as prevalent and organized as they were in the movie if date would have been July 14th, 1887.

Let's just say for historical continuity sake the date of the movie is the week of July 14th, 1866.  Right?  

I believe that Hogan says something to Sara about the time he has spent fighting the Civil War.  (The "everyone has the right to be a sucker once in theirs lifes")
-I'll watch it again real qick when I get off work.  And have the final results along with the Beguiled...  ;)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Dannyman on June 02, 2003, 09:21:34 PM
I wonder if the .44 Automag is still in production?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Dannyman on June 02, 2003, 09:25:13 PM
What kind of rifle did Scorpio use to murder the woman in Dirty Harry?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 02, 2003, 10:26:26 PM
M1 Grande rifle 30.06.... :(
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 03, 2003, 12:04:25 AM
The .44 Magnum Auto-Mag which was the gun replicated durning the shooting of Sudden Impact is no longer produced by the company Harry's gun was based after...

-More to come on this latter when it comes around...
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 05, 2003, 01:47:05 AM
Two Mules For Sister Sara-1970
(http://ibelgique.ifrance.com/cinedestin/films/s/si/sierratorride.jpg)

There is a historical conflict with Two Mules.  KC has put the action taking place in the movie starting at the week prior and leading to to July 14th Bastille Day 1866.

 I’d like to review this film on DVD when it comes out because once again I was stuck with the old VHS player which “pause” doesn’t even work so it’s not like I had the screen capture desired.  

(http://www.classicfirearms.co.uk/44%2040%20sa%20army.jpg)
44/40, 5 1/2 INCH BARREL

The pistol is no doubt a Colt Single Action Army notable from the ejector rod that runs the length of the barrel. (unlike Blondys Richards-Mason conversion model that still shows the loading lever) Even though firing metallic cartridges the early conversion models relied on the shooter to manually dislodge any spent cartridges.  The beautiful thing about conversions like Blondys in GBU is that you could switch back from cap and ball to bore though cylinder at the drop of a dime.  The New Army Remmington ’58 was the most noteworthy of those however.  Once conversions started becoming common place the loading lever was replaced with an ejector rod prevalent on the Colt SAA ’73 like Joe’s  and Manco’s which didn’t hit the scene until late ’72 and weren’t mass produced until ’73.  So that’s discrepancy historically.  

(http://www.tristarsportingarms.com/images/1866YELLOWBOY.jpg)
Winchester Model 1866 "Yellowboy" Lever-Action
Repeating Rifle; .44-40 Winchester caliber cartridge


Otherwise the Rifle he uses seems to be in the right time frame.   I’d like to do a little tribute to Dynamite seeing how it played a big role in the movie.  There are some great stunt scenes towards the end were Hogan goes to town.  The scene Eastwood did being dragged by the horse, lets go, flings the lit dynamite at the door is fantastic.  If I’m not mistaking it’s Eastwood that does the stunt.  And when Eastwood blows the tower you can see his reaction after the explosion is not acting it’s a real flinch of fear…              The history of dynamite is a fascinating one and it’s distribution of it concurs a little earlier than the time frame of the movie. Alfred Nobel was a Swedish chemist and a very skillful entrepreneur and business man, born in Stockholm on October 21, 1833.  Alfred saw that the advantages nitroglycerin had over gun powder could be used in a commercial and technical way. Over the years they had several explosions in the laboratory; a big one in 1864 killed the younger brother Emil and several other people. The city of Stockholm enforced laws that experiments with explosives could not be made within the city limits of Stockholm. Alfred was a great inventor and had 355 patents overall. Others to mention, besides dynamite, include synthetic rubber and leather, and artificial silk. Alfred lived a great deal of his life in Paris but also traveled a lot on business trips around the world. He was constantly involved in intense work and did not have much time left for private life. Besides his interest in his business, Alfred was very interested in social and peace-related issues, he also had a great interest in literature and poetry and even wrote some of his own works. He died in San Remo (Italy) on December 10, 1896. His will directed his fortunes to be used to establish a foundation that awarded a yearly Nobel Prize in the areas Physics, Chemistry, Physiology and Medicine, Literature, and Peace. The Nobel Prize ceremony is held in Stockholm on December 10 each year and the king of Sweden is the person in charge of handing over the prize to the awarded in each category. The ceremony for the Nobel Prize for peace, however, is held in Oslo, Norway

(http://www.clinteastwood.net/filmography/pics/twomules.jpg)                           (http://www.flipsigns.com/dynamite.gif)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on June 05, 2003, 06:21:17 AM
Thanks, D'Amb! The accounts I have read confirm that Eastwood did, indeed, do that dangerous stunt himself.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 06, 2003, 10:04:48 AM
THe Beguiled -1971(http://www.clinteastwood.net/graphics/videobox/begu.gif)

I have no idea why they put Clint with a Colt .45 Peacemaker in the poster to this movie ???



As for the rest of The Beguiled it is definitely historically correct.  All the guns used by the Confederate troops are all Cap and Ball.  Mrs. Farnsworths brothers gun that McBurney acquires in the movie is more than likely a French Flintlock Stright Stick as seen below.

(http://www.ambroseantiques.com/images/guns/fpistols/dblfrench5.JPG)

The Flintlock had been around since the 17th century and was replaced by the cap and ball in 1803, but most notably by Colts Paterson model in 1836.  The Flintlock has interesting action as seen below

The Flintlock Mechanism
The Merriam Webster Dictionary describes a lock, in the context of a gun, as:

The method for exploding the charge or cartridge of a firearm.

The flintlock is the most venerable of the lock technologies. The flintlock mechanism, like the pendulum clock mechanism, is amazing from an innovation standpoint. This single device solved so many of the problems of the time, and it did it using the fairly primitive tools and technology available at that time. The flintlock was quite an accomplishment!

The basic goal of the flintlock is simple. The flintlock needs to create a spark that can light the gunpowder that is stored in the barrel of the gun. To create this spark, the flintlock uses the "flint and steel" approach. The idea behind flint and steel is straightforward -- Flint is an amazingly hard form of rock. If you strike iron or steel with flint, the flint actually flakes off tiny particles of iron. The force of the blow and the friction it creates actually ignites the iron, so it burns rapidly to form Fe3O4. The sparks that you see are the hot specks of iron burning! If these sparks come near gunpowder, they will ignite the gunpowder.

The flintlock therefore needs a piece of flint, a piece of steel and a place for the sparks to touch gunpowder. The flint needs to move at high speed and strike the steel in such a way that the sparks fall into some gunpowder. The four parts that make this happen are:

The hammer, which holds and accelerates a piece of flint.
The mainspring, which powers the hammer.
The frizzen, which is the piece of steel the flint strikes.
The pan, which is the place where a small quantity of gunpowder waits to receive the sparks.
These four pieces are all that the flintlock actually needs to accomplish its goal, but all flintlocks also solve the problems of loading the pan, protecting the pan from the weather and triggering the hammer, so there are three additional parts:


The tumbler, which holds and releases the power of the mainspring and transmits it to the hammer
The sear and sear spring, which engage the tumbler and release it when someone pulls the trigger.
The frizzen spring, which holds the cover attached to the frizzen over the pan to make the flintlock weatherproof.
The mainspring presses against the tumbler and is able to rotate the hammer with a great deal of force. The sear engages the tumbler when the gun is cocked and holds the force of the mainspring. When you pull the trigger, it pushes the sear enough to release the tumbler and allows the hammer to drive the flint forward. You can these parts in the images below:

In addition, the frizzen has the ability to move. In the cocked position the frizzen is down covering the pan. When the flint strikes it, the frizzen pops out of the way to expose the pan. The frizzen spring holds the frizzen in both positions.

To use a flintlock you load the gun as follows:
You half-cock the hammer.
You pour a measure of gunpowder down the barrel
You wrap a lead ball (the bullet) is a small piece of cloth or paper and ram it down the barrel on top of the gunpowder. The bullet/cloth combination will have a good tight fit.
You place a small amount of gunpowder in the flintlock's pan.
You snap the frizzen in place over the pan.
You fully cock the hammer.
You pull the trigger to fire the gun.
When you fire the gun, the flint strikes the frizzen and shaves off iron to create sparks. The hammer's blow also snaps the frizzen back to expose the gunpowder in the pan. The pan's gunpowder ignites, and it flashes through a small hole in the side of the barrel to ignite the gunpowder inside the barrel. The gun fires!

(http://www.silcom.com/~vikman/isles/scriptorium/firearm/flintlck.gif)

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Concorde on June 10, 2003, 03:51:54 PM
D'Ambrosia, I used to be the resident gun expert around here, until the change of format in the board blocked me out for several months (until now, that is), but I see you've been doing a pretty darn good job in my absence.  ;)

The only thing I noted up above with which I'd have to take issue is your description of the long-range rifle used in JOSEY WALES (for the "Missouri Boat Ride" sequence). It's actually a Sharps, not a Spencer. The Spencer wasn't powerful or accurate enough for this task, whereas the Sharps (such as the original example chambered in .50-70 Govt that I own) could kill a horse at 600 yards. They are very similar rifles at first glance, but their receivers have slightly different shapes.

Otherwise, keep up the good work! I hope you can successfully identify those long-range bolt action rifles in JOE KIDD, a task that's always proven impossible for me.

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on June 10, 2003, 04:37:15 PM
Concorde! Welcome back! Yes, we had a thread about the rifle in Josey Wales on the old Board, didn't we!  ;)

And D'Amb did say ...
Quote
I might mention that the rifle he uses is not a Spencer as I had suspected but that will soon be corrected.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 10, 2003, 06:52:55 PM
Concord!  Welcome back man... :D

It's good to see a wise guy from WAY back... ;)

I've just been trying to keep up the good work were you left off...

I can remember your posts from the very first version of the Eastwood Web board from way back when in '98...


It's really good to see an oldtimer back.  And it's really good to see you back in action....

By all means feel free to jump in and make any corrections that I may have overlooked...  

And BTW you still are the resident gun expert around here as far as I'm concerned ;)

As Mr. Pants stated above:
Quote
Oops, didn't mean to steal anyone's thunder. Sorry 'bout that. Carry on.
8)

Looking forward to Joe Kidd  I know it's going to be a little bit of a grind...  

Great to have you back dude!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 10, 2003, 09:19:38 PM
Dirty Harry-1971

(http://www.marstar.ca/usedguns/revolvers/images/S&W-N72399.jpg)

Smith and Wesson Model 29 .44 Magnum

When it came time to choose Harry's weapon for the first film, Eastwood knew exactly what kind of firepower he wanted for the character.  Unfortunately, the Model 29's were not in production at the time, and it took a little string-pulling to get a few made for the film- they had to be assembled from parts.

Eastwood spent time on the shooting range prior to undertaking the role, so that he would be able to properly imitate the .44's recoil when using blank cartridges.  (The blanks also had to be specially made, as the traditional Hollywood blanks would not fit the .44 chamber.)  As for his choice of ammo, Harry uses a light special load which is usually favored for reduced recoil and better control.

SPECIFICATIONS

Manufacturer: Smith & Wesson

Basic Models:
Model 29..............blue or nickel finish
Model 629.............stainless finish

Type: Double-action revolver with swing-out cylinder
Caliber: .44 Magnum
Capacity: 6 round cylinder
Barrel: Several lengths are available from 4" to 8-3/8".

Sights:
Rear.........windage adjustable notch
Front........vertical ramp with red insert on standard models

Dimensions: (for 6-1/2" model)
Length.......11-7/8"
Weight.......47 ounces (empty)


GENERAL

Smith & Wesson produces a wide range of firearms, including many different sizes and types of revolvers.  This FAQ deals specifically with the .44 Magnum models.

The .44 Magnum cartridge was introduced in 1955 by Remington for use in the [then] new Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum revolver.  In years following, other manufacturers added .44 Magnum revolvers to their lineups.  In addition, there are several rifles that chamber the .44 Magnum cartridge.  Today, the .44 Magnum is still considered to be one of the most powerful handgun cartridges available commercially.

From 1955 to 1957, S&W's big revolver was simply called the "The .44 Magnum."  In 1957, when S&W standardized the model numbering of their products, the .44 Magnum was continued as the S&W model 29.

Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum revolvers have heavyweight steel frames, and have been available with blue, nickel, or stainless steel finishes.  The nickel finish is no longer available on newly manufactured models.  The blued and nickel models are called the model 29.  The stainless model is called the model 629, and is identical in all respects to the model 29 except for the finish.  There have been several specialized versions of the 629, such as the "629 Classic", "629 DX", "629 Classic Hunter", etc., with features such as interchangeable front sights, full lug barrels, special grips, etc.


CONSTRUCTION AND OPERATION

The S&W 29 follows the same pattern as the majority of other S&W "hand ejector" revolvers.  It uses the N-type frame, S&W's heaviest.

The hinged cylinder swings out of the left side of the frame for loading and unloading.   The cylinder is released by the cylinder latch button located just behind the cylinder on the left side of the frame.  When the cylinder is swung out, any empty cases may be ejected by pushing the spring loaded ejector rod located at the front of the cylinder.  Normal cylinder rotation is clockwise when viewed from the rear.

The revolver may be operated in either double or single action mode.  For single action, the operator manually pulls back the hammer before pulling the trigger.   For double action, the operator simply pulls the trigger.  Substantially less effort is required to pull the trigger in single action mode.

As with most other S&W products, the model 29 revolvers have fairly well finished parts, are hard to break, and will last a lifetime when properly maintained.  One minor complaint is that the hammers and triggers during some years of manufacture are bare unfinished metal, not properly case hardened, and thus will rust readily if not cared for.

Over the years, several different types of grips have been standard equipment on these revolvers.  The current style is a contoured soft rubber grip by Hogue that absorbs more of the recoil than some past attempts.  Earlier models were usually equipped with square-butt checkered walnut grips or Pachmayer round-butt hard rubber grips.

The rear sight is a square notch, adjustable for windage using a small allen-head wrench.   On more recent 29s, the notch is outlined with a bright white line, for easier sighting.

The standard front sight is a vertical ramp.  On more recent 29s, a bright red insert on the ramp makes for easier sighting.  Additional front sights are also available, and a selection of five interchangeable front sights are standard equipment with the 629 DX model.

*Specifications and edited review taken from here.  (Complete review can be found at this address.)  Ammunition source information:  Hodgdon Data Manual, 26th Ed

Taken from Jake's Web-Site: http://www.the-dirtiest.com/ (http://www.the-dirtiest.com/)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: gwb on June 12, 2003, 02:58:07 PM
Dirty Harry-1971

(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/acsportsmensclub/Apr_gun.jpg)

DAmrosia - that's a great shot of the gun.  I actually saw it in person, and its huge.

Where did you get it ?

(And I really don't know why the dirtiest site says that model 29's weren't made yet in '71, when that same article later says it was).



Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 12, 2003, 06:15:47 PM
To be honest gwb, just as most of my other images in this thread, it's taken from random images search from Google and I just happened to get luckey with that one!

gwb, that is a picture of the .44 Magnum that John Milus owns.

John Milius worked as a co-screenwrither on Dirty Harry (uncredited) and was the writer for Magnum Force and managed to   get that particular gun while the  filming the movie.  This is his take on “Getting the .44Magnum” :

“This is a .44 Magnum, as you know, the most powerful handgun in the world, not any more, but it was then, and it fires neither five or six because it’s empty.  This is one of the original guns from the movie.  When I did the second movie I said “I want one of those guns, can’t you get the prop department steal one of those guns and give it to me?  So Clint and a Warner Brothers publicity guy arranged to get that and they put a plaque on it and everything so it’s a very valuable gun now. It’s become an icon.    

Another interesting take on Harry and his .44 from Milius:  
“The idea was that Dirty Harry was suppose to be an outsider. That he was suppose to be a loner.  He lived alone.  He had lousy food in his icebox, a couple of beers.  He had no life except the hunt.  He was a hunter.  That’s why he carries a .44 magnum ‘cause it was a gun developed for hunting."

BTW I thought the same thing about the “the gun not being in production” as mentioned on the dirtiest  site.  Cause the research I did said it was in production at the time but oh well.  I just thought it would be nice to give Jakes site a little plug that’s all…  Just goes to show me what happens when you get lazy... ::)

BTW gwb, where did you get to see it?  That's great!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: gwb on June 13, 2003, 06:21:05 AM
...BTW gwb, where did you get to see it?  That's great!


I happened to be in VA last year when the NRA had a display on Hollywood guns, including the famous winchesters used by Chuck Conners (The Rifleman) and John Wayne, and a whole bunch of guns used by Eastwood in various movies - the .44 happened to be there (Milius is on the NRA board...).
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Doug on June 13, 2003, 01:21:20 PM


When it came time to choose Harry's weapon for the first film, Eastwood knew exactly what kind of firepower he wanted for the character.  Unfortunately, the Model 29's were not in production at the time, and it took a little string-pulling to get a few made for the film- they had to be assembled from parts.

Does this mean they had not yet gone into production, or that they had stopped making them?  


Quote
As for his choice of ammo, Harry uses a light special load which is usually favored for reduced recoil and better control.

I know this is the quote from Magnum Force, and we had a discussion about this earlier, but does anyone know what it really means?  I've always seen the quote as possibly a cop out since simply put the .44 magnum is not really an ideal gun for city cop to carry, because it's too powerful, and would exit most people in most situations with I'm guessing very little loss of force and velocity.  So a couple of people were suggesting that he's saying he actually uses  .44 Special cartriges.  I don't buy that, based mainly on the recoil and sound his gun makes when firing it.  Also I don't buy that he target practices with one ammo and uses another on the street, because they fire completely differently.  So I take it that he just uses, literally, lighter shells, say around 180-grain.  Is this the proper conclusion?  Interested in your thoughts DAmb.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 14, 2003, 09:57:12 PM
This is what Callahan says when asked what kind of load he fires in his .44:

Spencer: “What kind of load do you use in that .44?”

Callahan: “It’s a light special; this size gun it gives me better control and less recoil than a .357 with wad cutters.”

(keep in mind that advocate shooters are always “saving brass” and making their own reloads fiddling around with the amount of grain than they put in behind the shell.  So, maybe at that particular time after the “excessive force full loads” in DH, he was trying to tone down the gun a bit…?)

There are many different types of “bullets” and the amount of “gunpowder” you can chamber in modern handguns, so it doesn’t surprise me that Callahan, being a hunter and all, on occasions where he’s hunting, carries the nastiest loads as opposed to everyday practicing and carrying it in the city and on the street loads. His bullets are the light specials as opposed to the full loads as in going after Scorpio and all ….  

If he’s “on the case” and in the hunt he is carrying full loads.  

His response to Kate in asking him why he carries the .44:

Kate:  “You are cold bold Callahan with his great big .44.  Everybody cop in this city is satisfied with a .38 or a .357.  Why do you have to carry that cannon for?
Callahan:  “’Cause I hit what I aim at, that’s why.  .357 is a good weapon but I’ve seen .38’s careen off windshields.  No good in a city like this…”

So on any given day he could have any given load depending on circumstances.  
 
What do you think Doug?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Dannyman on June 16, 2003, 02:09:07 PM
Was Harry's .44 a  6 1/2 inch barrel?  ???
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: gwb on June 16, 2003, 02:52:52 PM
Was Harry's .44 a  6 1/2 inch barrel?  ???

Yes.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: gwb on June 16, 2003, 03:00:45 PM
Does this mean they had not yet gone into production, or that they had stopped making them?  ......  I don't buy that, based mainly on the recoil and sound his gun makes when firing it.  


Not DAmbrosia - but....

It was in production - they started production in the 50's.  I don't know why they said that about the gun not being in production.  They (Smith & Wesson) still produce the Model 29, a little different "stylistically" but nevertheless it is still out there.  They also recently made a limited run of new Model 29's, just like the one that Callahan used (with the original 61/2" barrel) for their 150th anniversary with engraving, and with a few (only 87) made without engraving sent to dealers -  I was lucky to pick up one of the 87.

On your second question, the recoil in the movie was fake.  He may have simulated based on going to the range, but you can see that the "recoil" is different in all the Harry movies, expecially the last one - perhaps Eastwood was getting a little tired of hoisting a heavy gun everytime he shot.  And the sound is not what the gun actually sounds like - that is a sound effect also.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Brendan on June 16, 2003, 03:08:50 PM
I have a question.

At the time the movie (Dirty Harry) was made, was the .44 Magnum THE most powerful hand gun in the world?

Becuase supposedly the one hand gun in the Matrix (1999), the Desert Eagle I beleive it is, is now considered the most powerful hand gun in the world. So.... when was the Desert Eagle made? After or before Dirty Harry?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 16, 2003, 09:40:28 PM
Thanks for clearing that up gwb.  Any time you see a slip up please help me out...: ;)

As for the Light Special that Doug had asked about above, what I think Harry means relping to the question asked what kind of load he carrys in that .44...
In my view Harry’s “light special” is referring to light(as in the grain of the bullet, say around 180 grains.) and special(as in an excessive amount of powder charge)  This would give the gun great muzzle velocity but with less recoil as for the weight of the bullet. but traveling fast enough to penetrate car doors and the such….Now we know he has carried the .300 grain cartridge in his .44 before so that’s a huge difference in weight of the shell…At the time in Magnum Force his was using a lighter bullet that’s all.

Below are some of various “Loads” Harry could have chambered in his .44:



(http://www.reloadammo.com/bul44mag.gif)

Left to right:-- 250 gr. SWC, 240 gr. HP, .44 with 225 gr. SWC-JHP, .44 with 250 gr. JHP
250 gr. SWC+GC, 265 gr. JFP, 240 gr. JSP
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 16, 2003, 09:46:56 PM
The Dessert Eagle .50 cal surpassed the .44 Magnum in the early 80's... (Even the Eagle .44 were even more powerful pre se, around the same time.

Dessert Eagle kind of picked up when the  Auto Mag compant went under...

Don Johnson and Mickey Rorke use a couple of good one's in Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man...
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on June 16, 2003, 10:26:59 PM
Dirty Harry- 1971

Winchester Model 70 .458 Magnum
(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/DHRifle.JPG)

SPECIFICATIONS:
Type:  Bolt Action
Caliber:  .458 Magnum
Barrel Length:  22; 24 inches
Weight:  8.5- 9.5 lbs.
Sights:  open sights
Stocks:  walnut with two steel reinforcing crossbolts
Cartridge Capacity:  4 shot magazine
Finish:  Chrome Moly; Stainless
AMMUNITION
Except for use on a couple of the world's big game animals most American hunters will ever see except for on T.V. or in magazines, the .458 Magnum might be considered a useless cartridge.  But a lot of .458 rifles are sold in the U.S., mainly because Americans like powerful cars, powerful cartridges, and the .458 Magnum stands near the top of the heap in punch

The .458 Magnum “Safari” Elephant Gun was specifically designed  just for that purpose.  To hunt big game in Africa.  

Elephant Guns
Elephant rifles and cartridges are the stuff of large books and lush legend. In few endeavors have gunmakers labored more magnificently than in the building of huge-bore double rifles for the elephant trade. Heft one to your shoulder and your imagination takes the fast lane. You see yourself firing a right and then a left, levering open the barrels, hearing the pinging ejection of jigger-sized brass cases and inhaling the exotic incense of cordite corkscrewing up from the twin chambers.

The magical term "Nitro Express" applies to cartridges developed for smokeless or "nitro" powder. (Cordite is cotton treated with nitroglycerin.) Earlier cartridges made for the elephant trade were loaded with blackpowder; many of them are now known as BP Express calibers. Since blackpowder produced only moderate velocities (usually in the 1,500 to 1,800 fps range), energy was developed by using heavy, large-diameter bullets-a practice that continued after the advent of nitro powders that generated velocities over 2,000 fps and striking energies measured in the tons.
Before the invention of breech-loading rifles, the elephant gun was a massive muzzleloading affair, hurling hunks of lead nearly the size of golf balls. Back in the 1970s Samuel Baker, the famed Nile explorer, fancied guns of gigantic caliber and in one of his journals describes steadying the barrels of his rifle on the shoulder of a porter for a long shot. The muzzle jump was so severe it ripped off the porter's ear.


When Winchester announced its .458 Magnum in 1956, it effectively ended the reign of the great British Nitro calibers. Though the .375 H&H had done good service for generations, it had never gained real acceptance as a serious elephant round. The .458, however, loaded with a 500-grain, full-patch, .45-caliber bullet and having over 5,000 foot-pounds of muzzle energy, equaled or bettered the power and penetration of many of the traditional elephant cartridges. Better yet, it was inexpensive and easily available.

.

All of this is not meant to say that the .458 Magnum is not an excellent cartridge.   For hunting African Elephant or Cape Buffalo, few cartridges do a better job than Winchester's biggest cartridge.  Since its introduction in 1956, the .458 Magnum has become the most popular big bore cartridge among African professional hunters, not only for game population control work but for keeping clientele out of trouble when mixing it up with dangerous game.  A few Alaskan guides and outfitters who specialize in hunting Brown Bear and Scoprios are also quite fond of it...

(http://www.guntech.com/stealth/458sp.jpg)-"My, that's a big one..."
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on June 16, 2003, 10:46:38 PM
Quote
CHIEF: Well ... .458 Magnum, huh? This thing will stop an elephant.

HARRY: Yeah.

CHIEF: Apparently you like a little edge.

HARRY: All I can get, sir.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: maddog_frenzy on June 16, 2003, 11:51:55 PM
In partial answer to Brendan's question a few posts back, Magnum Research does manufacture some big guns, including the astonishing line of BFR revolvers (for monster loads such as .45/70 Gov't and even .410 shotgun shells). While the Desert Eagle .50 cal. is big in many ways, here's what Smith & Wesson has to say about their own new 500 Magnum revolver, recently released:

* Most Powerful Production Revolver in the World Today

*   Massive 500 S&W Magnum® Cartridge 2600 ft/lb. Muzzle Energy

[Only in America! Gotta love our propensity for wretched excess...]

If Eastwood does another Harry flick, it would be interesting to see which sidearm he adopts; Desert Eagle? BFR? S&W 500?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Dannyman on June 17, 2003, 06:28:48 PM
As for Smith and Wesson the most powerful handgun besides the 500 is the .44 magnum. For Clint and another Harry movie, if he did make one I doubt he would use the S&W 500 because it weighs almost 5 pounds, only holds 5 shots, and the barrel is almost 9 inches long.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: maddog_frenzy on June 18, 2003, 08:21:31 PM
Here's a .44 Auto Mag custom-crafted for Clint's Dirty Harry character, credit to The Dirtiest site:

(http://www.the-dirtiest.com/images/automag.jpg)

The S&W .50 Cal. revolver is about a pound (450g) heavier than the auto mag, and offers three times the muzzle energy as the auto mag. And I doubt that, besides the S&W 500, the .44 mag is the most powerful handgun in the world; Magnum Research's BFR revolvers shoot rifle loads! HOLY CATS. That's power. It's possible that the BFR .45/70 is more powerful than the S&W 500, which is more powerful than the .44 mag.

As for barrel length, the auto mag came with either a 6.5 or 8.5 barrel. No telling how long Harry's barrel was if it was a custom job, but it looks like Harry's auto mag had 6.5 inches.

Bottom line is the 5 shot revolver vs. the 7-shot auto mag; the latter simply holds more rounds.

Note how common the Desert Eagle is in Hollywood; it appears in nearly every action flick released these days!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Dannyman on June 18, 2003, 09:47:59 PM
I never said the .44 mag was the most powerful in the world. I said in Smith & Wesson handguns it is the most powerful besides the S&W .50
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on July 10, 2003, 10:14:06 PM
Joe Kidd on deck....    ;D
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: mattyd on July 11, 2003, 12:41:37 AM
i would also like join in on this hunt for clints guns i admit it could be an interesting task.
 ::)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: SergeantFIN on August 04, 2003, 05:34:17 AM
Clint uses Gatling Gun in The Outlaw Josey Wales....
(http://www.gatlinggun.net/images/left_angle_rear.gif)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: dane with no name on August 21, 2003, 06:57:02 AM
clint also used a standard german army luger with silencer in where eagles dare. (got no photo of it i´m afraid.)
But did the luger come with a silencer at that time???
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Dannyman on August 22, 2003, 11:29:20 PM
What kind of gun did Scorpio use to hijack the bus, the one he took from the store clerk?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on August 24, 2003, 10:12:05 PM
What kind of gun did Scorpio use to hijack the bus, the one he took from the store clerk?

(http://www.users.qwest.net/~nwebb1/w-luger.jpg)

Luger 9mm Parabellum

The Luger was born during the German arms boom of the 1890s. It saw service in World War I, becoming a standard firearm for the German Army and Navy. A number of Lugers saw service in World War II, being manufactured by the Mauser factory, but production ceased in 1945. In 1970 Mauser again introduced a model and the Luger was saved from complete decline by the introduction of the American Eagle model by Mitchell Arms. John Walter's clear account of the development, use and importance of the Luger establishes the truth behind this famous weapon. The Luger Story is an authoritative reference for collectors and anyone with an interest in the history of firearms.

As I have stated before this handgun caliber is by far the most popular handgun cartridge in the world. It was first produced in 1902 for the Luger automatic pistol and by 1904 it had become the official caliber of German Navy and two years later by the German Army. The U.S. military forces changed to the 9mm Parabellum bullet from the .45 ACP (used in the Model 1911 Colt).
Although the FBI replaced this caliber with the more powerful 10mm (after an infamous Florida shootout in 1986) the 9mm remains popular. [Frank Horrigan's gun is the 10mm]  The small cartridge size of the 9mm  allows many bullets to be held in the firearm while modern bullet technology has ensured that this cartridge's terminal ballistics remain acceptable. The rounds are very fast (usually supersonic, although heavier and slower subsonic rounds are available for suppressed firearms) and the recoil is among the lightest of any popular cartridge and this makes the 9mm ideal for controllability.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: dane with no name on August 25, 2003, 05:33:06 AM
thanks for the picture and the arms data, DAmbrosia.
But regarding my question about the silencer clint uses in where eagles dare, what can you tell me.
i was under the impression that the technology regarding silencers didnt appear unto the late 50ies
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on August 25, 2003, 11:12:20 PM
The first commercial use of a suppressor came into existence around 1910 when Hiram Maxim, the inventor of the first true machine gun, made it be known.  However it’s around the turn of the century (right around the time the 9mm was hitting the scene) by the Germans that truly crafted the silencer.  
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: dane with no name on August 26, 2003, 04:08:37 AM
Thanks DAmbrosia.
I stand corrected  ;)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on August 26, 2003, 08:13:28 PM
The sound produced by a firearm is principally comprised of three components. They are: (1) the muzzle blast created by shock waves generated from the sudden expansion of hot propellant gases as they encounter the atmosphere at the muzzle end of the gun barrel; (2) the miniature sonic boom, or crack, produces by a bullet traveling downrange at a velocity above the speed of sound (1,087.5 fps at 32 degrees Fahrenheit at sea level (3) in the case of a semiautomatic or full-auto weapon, there is the mechanical noise produced by the action. If the projectile travels downrange at subsonic velocity, it will not produce a sonic boom as it passes stationary objects.

A Blue Print of Maxims  "first" silencer  for the German Military dated July 20, 1911:
(http://www.hirammaxim.com/pics~different/max~silencer~blueprint.jpg)

A couple of cool "history of supperssor" sites for you dame:

http://www.hirammaxim.com/HM_silencers.html (http://www.hirammaxim.com/HM_silencers.html)

History of the silencer in the OSS:  (Where Eagles Dare) :)
http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/OSSPistol.PDF (http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/OSSPistol.PDF)

On a side note I may have been incorrect with the gun Scorpio uses dannyman...  My Diry Harry DVD is out on loan right now but I'm thinking back to the scenes and I know it's a German gun of some sort but know that I've slept on it It might not be a Luger.  It could very well be a Walther... ???  

Maybe KC can post me up with one of her famous "screen captures" of Scorpio with the gun?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on August 26, 2003, 09:37:21 PM
How are these, D'Amb?

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/DHScorpioGun1.JPG)  (http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/DHScorpioGun2.JPG)

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/DHScorpioGun3.JPG)


Sorry the first one is a little blurry.  :-\
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on August 26, 2003, 10:24:43 PM
Perfect as always KC! ;D  Thanks... :)

(http://gungallery.euweb.cz/Pict/Walther%20P38.jpg)

Just as I suspected…  It’s a Walther P-38 which fires the same 9mm Parabellum cartridge that the Luger fires.  Basicly a step up from the Luger and was given to to all high ranking German officers, or as I call them, Nazis, in 1938 (hence the name P-38)  

As Germany was heading into World War II, they realized that the Luger was difficult to manufacture. It required close tolerances and hand fitting. In 1935, Germany began a serious search for a replacement. Walther's P.38 was adopted by the Army in 1938.

A Brief history can be found here thanks to the history channel:
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg68-e.htm (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg68-e.htm)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: dane with no name on August 27, 2003, 02:15:03 PM
Thanks DAmbrosia
once again you excell in the knowledge of firearms, i´ll keep you in mind  when i have another firearmquestion
(incl. the eastwood-unrelated ones)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Name on September 15, 2003, 12:46:24 PM
Oh yeah! The guns... The magnum stands out of course... But why does great big bad Callahan need that cannon? Well of course at the time criminals starting carrying heavier firepower of course!
My dad's a New York City police officer... That's NEW YORK CITY... Not London where they don't have guns...
And he gets a standard issue Gloch! I mean come on now... I definitely relate to the vigilante point of view here... Dirty Harry needed to get the job done when other people just complained about it and didn't want to do anything themselves.
I believe for the model 29, Smith and Wesson produced a 4in., 6in. and 8 in. models. All available in the blue steel that we recognize with Harry's gun. Unfortunately they're not made anymore in that color.
If you watch carefully you can tell that the barrel size does change like in the stadium when Harry yells: "Stop!" And you get that long side view, it's most likely an 8in. and then for other scenes it may revert back to the 6.

 "Well... We're not just gonna let you walk outta here."
 "Who's we sucka?"
 "Smith... Wesson... and me."
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: John Omohundro on September 18, 2003, 08:27:09 AM
Couple of small corrections, guys:

First of all, although Alistair MacLean *DID* specify that Major Smith and Lieutenant Schaffer used silenced Lugers in the novel "WHERE EAGLES DARE", the German military had, according to J. David Truby's "SILENCERS, SNIPERS, AND ASSASSINS", given up on attempting to silence the Luger automatic during World War ONE. Seems the temperamental pistol's action didn't take to having the extra weight of a silencer attached to its barrel. Coupled with the low-velocity ammunition usually used with silenced weapons, the experimental Lugers were too prone to jamming to be reliable as combat weapons.
The automatics used in the film by Richard Burton, Clint Eastwood, and Mary Ure were WALTHER PPKs.

Secondly, the rifle used by Scorpio in "DIRTY HARRY" was NOT an M-1 Garand. The Garand is a SEMI-AUTOMATIC rifle, and Scorpio's weapon was a BOLT-ACTION--specifically, a Japanese Type 99 Type 2 Paratrooper's Rifle, which was one of two takedown variations of the basic Type 99 Arisaka battle rifle, intended for use by airborne paratroopers. The rifle used in "DIRTY HARRY" had been further modified by (1) the addition of a sporter (hunting rifle)-type stock; (2) conversion to .30-'06 from the standard Japanese 7.7 X 58MM Arisaka (essentially a rimless counterpart to the .303 British); (3) the addition of a telescopic sight in quick-detachable mount; and (4) the addition of a Maxim-type silencer.

Thirdly (and with all due respect to the gentleman who posted the original), the rifle shown under the "Coogan's Bluff" entry could just as easily be a MARLIN MODEL 336. It's SIMILAR in appearance, but NOT IDENTICAL, to the MOSSBERG Model 472 Brush Gun identified in the other gentleman's post. No criticism is intended here--I'm just pointing out that there is ANOTHER rifle that could have been used in the film.

And lastly, the Thompson-pattern SMG used by Eastwood  in "Kelly's Heroes" was NOT a Model 1928. Although MANY of them were procured for military use early in the war, that model of Thompson was superseded by the simplified Thompson M-1 and M-1A1 Military models, which are easily distinguished from the earlier models by the presence of the cocking knob on the RIGHT-HAND SIDE of the receiver, instead of on the TOP, as was the case in the earlier Models 1921, 1928 and the rare Model 1923. Also, the M-1 and M-1A1 Thompsons could only accept 20- and 30-round box magazines--the M-1921 and M-1928 could accept these too, as well as the 50- and 100-round drum magazines frequently shown in the gangster films of the 1930s and 1940s. If you look closely at "KELLY'S HEROES", you'll notice that (a) most, if not all, of the Thompson SMGs shown are of the M-1/M-1A1 pattern, and that (b) they ALL use box magazines (check out the scene after the first firefight when the Company Quartermaster (I *THINK* that's what he was supposed to be) is walking from man to man doling out Thompson SMG magazines from a duffel bag).

  --John
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: John Omohundro on September 18, 2003, 12:48:37 PM
Incidentally, gentlemen and/or ladies, the Automag used in "SUDDEN IMPACT" was custom-built for the film by Arcadia Machine & Tool (AMT), a company which built the ORIGINAL Automags back in the 1970s.

According to GUNS & AMMO magazine, which did a cover article on the pistol in, I believe, June 1984, there were actually TWO such guns built for the film, serial numbered "Clint 1" and "Clint 2". The former was set up for LIVE ammunition (presumably for the impromptu range session between Eastwood (as "Harry Callahan") and Detective Horace King (played by Albert Popwell, who also had roles in "COOGAN'S BLUFF" ("Wonderful Digby"),  "DIRTY HARRY" (the "I gots to know!" bank robber), "MAGNUM FORCE" (a pimp), and "THE ENFORCER" (as "'Big Ed' Mustapha")). The second gun was set up to use blanks, and was featured in the shoot-out between Harry Callahan and Mick (Paul Drake) and his cronies at the end of the film.

Once again, no criticism intended of anyone else posting here. I'm just doing my part to help set the record straight.

-- John
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on September 18, 2003, 06:08:17 PM
Thanks, John!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: John Omohundro on September 19, 2003, 08:59:52 AM
My pleasure, KC!

--John
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: John Omohundro on September 20, 2003, 02:51:25 PM
KC:

I'm not quite certain, but I believe that Eastwood used the SAME holster and gunbelt set for "JOE KIDD" that he did for the earlier "Spaghetti Westerns".  However, he did NOT use the same gun--the pistol he used in "A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS" and "FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE" had a 4.75" barrel, while the one he used in "JOE KIDD" had a 7.5" barrel--something the holster easily accommodated, because it was open at the end. (This was a feature common in the 1950s "Fast Draw" craze; it allowed a hardened steel plate to be affixed to the end of the holster, parallel to the shooter's leg, but angled slightly away from his body. The idea was that, in the event of an accidental discharge while drawing the gun in a competition using live ammunition, the plate would safely deflect the bullet  away from the shooter's body.)

It was originally made for him by the late Andy Anderson, the same man who designed and made the silver-inlaid rattlesnake grip panels showcased in those films. Until shortly before his death about 20 years ago, Anderson made virtually ALL of the leatherware that Eastwood used in his Western films--from his days as "Rowdy Yates" on "RAWHIDE" until he played the lead in "THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES".

--John
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 22, 2003, 04:48:41 PM
You seem to be well informed John!!!  Thanks for all of your helpful insight.  This thread is stricly Clints Guns so of course all of you knowledge is greatly appericated.  Feel free to sum up Joe Kidd if you would like.  I haven't had a chance to view it in quite some time and that one is next on the list, although you did hit upon the '96 Mauser.  Thanks for setting the record straight on the Coogans rifle.  I looked at all the Marlins and they just didn't seem to have the same looking stock as the Mossburg but I'll take your word for it.  As I stated in the post "I'm not positive"  and I usually do that when I'm not certain just hopeing someone like you will jump in and help out... ;D

Oh yeah, and welcome to the best damb board around John... ;)

PS, Thanks for the correction on the M-1Grand in Dirty Harry... :P  My oversight... :o ::)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: John Omohundro on September 25, 2003, 05:21:53 PM
Just asking:

Does anybody have an idea what the brass machine gun was which Ramon Rojo used to ambush the American soldiers in "A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS" ?

I think an 1886 Maxim, which was the first true machine gun (i.e., mechanically operated by the ammunition, rather than a manually-operated weapon, such as the Gatling gun) would fit the time period.

However, the only sources that I have say that the Maxim gun, while first purchased by the British government in 1885, were not used in combat until the Matabele wars in Africa in 1891.

If the weapon WAS a Maxim, I suppose that Ramon Rojo could've somehow gotten hold of one--after all, he and his family were, essentially, arms dealers.

Unfortunately, that's a hobby of mine--finding flaws in films, such as weapons that were produced later than the era in which the film takes place (1873 Colt Peacemakers and Winchesters in a film set during the Civil War, for example--a few of John Wayne's early films were like that :)).

Anyway--is there anyone here who might be able to shed a little light on this particular subject, and possibly identify the machine gun in question?

Thanks in advance. :)

--John
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: John Omohundro on November 22, 2003, 02:52:46 PM
The Man With No Name:

You're correct.

Or as Don Rickles said in KELLY'S HEROES, "You win a cookie."  :)

I read several years ago that  there were several substitutions for the .44 Magnum co-star made during the filming of DIRTY HARRY.

The standard gun was a Smith & Wesson Model 29 .44 Magnum, with blued finish,  checkered Goncalo Alves ( a tropical American hardwood known also as "Kingwood" or "Zebrawood") hardwood grips, a rear sight that was adjustable for windage (side-to-side movement) and elevation (up-and-down movement), and a 6.5" barrel.

However, because there was a shortage of that model at the time (possibly in CA state gun shops, and not a production shortage at Smith & Wesson, as some have hinted here, although I am not certain), some Smith & Wesson Model 57s were used--this pistol is virtually IDENTICAL to the Model 29 except for caliber (the Model 57 is a .41 Magnum rather than a .44).

Also, possibly to make the weapon look more intimidating physically from some camera angles, several revolvers of both models with 8.375" (8 and 3/8ths-inch) barrels were used, most notably in the scene at the football stadium where Harry shouts "STOP!", and we (the viewers) are treated to a three-quarter view of the .44's right side (all the way to the muzzle--SHUDDER!),   just before Harry blows Scorpio's leg out from under him.

--John
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: woodenhead on December 22, 2003, 07:37:05 PM
Mr. DAmbrosia:
In post #4 shows a colt #73 with a 71/2" barrel.
I have always been intrigued with Blondie's gun in GBU.
In the hotel room before Tuco comes in through the window (there are two kinds of spurs my friend, those that come in through the door and those that come in through the window) Blondie had taken his gun apart and was cleaning it. Like tuco after coming out of the dessert and took those guns apart and put one together out of the best components.
These guns had a lock or lever on the side of the barrel enabling the barrel to be removed along with the cylinder.  Was this an actual gun or something special for the movie. Was there such a gun. None of the above models show this feature.
I never could find a gun like that in catalogues.
Thanks for any consideration on this request.
Best Regards.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on December 25, 2003, 10:36:31 PM
The pistol that Blondie uses in the Good the Bad and the Ugly is a modified 1851 Navy Colt (modified, no doubt, by a dubious gunsmith).  It has been converted to fire metallic cartridges which was extremly rare in the day but a few guns around then could fire these bullets (Smith and Wesson).  The technology was there but the mass production was not.  Both the Union and Confederate States stalled and delayed the new metallic cartridges in fear of their armies wasting ammunition and costing too much to manufacter.  

One of the most popular of Civil War revolvers was the Colt Model 1851 in 36 caliber. Around 250,000 were made by Colt between 1850 and 1873. It had a six shot cylinder and a 7-1/2" octagonal barrel. The standard cylinder featured an engraved scene of a naval battle. The Navy designation meant it was 36 caliber. 44 Caliber were known as Army, but both terms are merely convenient marketing designations.  This model was carried by such different men as Robert E. Lee as the Confederate Commanding General and by Wild Bill Hickock as the Sheriff of Abilene.  It was loaded with loose blackpowder and a bare bullet, referred to as "cap and ball," or with paper cartridges. Loading a cap and ball revolver is from the front of the cylinder. Misfires in cap and ball revolvers were more common than in the subsequent metallic cartridge guns. The misfire problem was well enough known to be commented on when it didn't happen after unusual circumstances. The '51 Colt carried by Robert E. Lee made the commentaries. When it was shot after his death in 1870, every chamber fired when it had last been loaded during the middle of the War about seven years earlier.
The '51 Colt Navy was the first gun to be made as a replica in the 1950s. The markup prototype was assembled in 1949 for Italian production

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Blu on January 01, 2004, 08:33:16 PM
....I don't know a whole lot about guns, and this post is a bit late in the chronological sequence, but as I stated once before, two of the guns Clint used in the spaghetti western trilogy are (or were, last time I was there) on display in the Planet Hollywood in Las Vegas.  I'm not sure if the post is still around, but I believe one was a Springfield rifle (probably used in the GB&U), and the other a Colt revolver.  
      ....Just thought I would throw that in.

-Blu  
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on January 01, 2004, 08:36:44 PM
That's cool Blu.  The Colt fits but I'm not sure if the Sprinfield does...  Blondie used a Henry "Golden Boy" in GBU.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Blu on January 01, 2004, 08:47:22 PM
.....I did notice that the rifle didn't quite look like the one at the end of GB&U.  The barrel shape of the one on display was round instead of octagonal.  Then again, I believe Planet Hollywood has been known to display bogus Hollywood props from time to time.

-Blu
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on January 01, 2004, 08:54:37 PM
Yeah, the one here in Columbus, or lack of one now, use to have on display the Aussie '73 Ford Falcon  from the The Road Warrior and just by one look you could tell it to be bogus.  The real one sat in a junk pile for years and someone wised up and fished it out of there and restored it.   On the other hand they did have some wardrobe from Gone with the Wind that look as if it could have been the real deal...
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: vik on January 03, 2004, 12:28:11 PM
what about the outlaw josey wales?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on January 16, 2004, 10:33:28 PM
I may have to put Joe Kidd on the back-burner... ??? ::)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Washingtonian on January 24, 2004, 11:27:10 PM
My first post...

This is a very intersting topic. As for what Clint's gun at the end of GBU is, I believe that it is either an 1863 or 1859 Sharps Calvary Carbine.

If you study that rifle carefull, you can not the absence of the ramrod underneath the barrel which shows that it is not a muzzleloader. Also, you can see the absence of any apparent type of magazine and of course the octagonal barrel. Those all seem to point to a Sharps.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Concorde on February 20, 2004, 06:18:06 AM
The rifle that Clint uses through most of GBU (to shoot nooses, etc.) is a Henry repeater, but "Washingtonian" is quite right about the gun used in the final scene, to shoot Tuco loose from the tree over the grave -- it's some sort of single-shot long range rifle that Blondy acquires from the scabard on Angel Eyes' horse.

As for that prop in the Las Vegas Planet Hollywood, if it was indeed a Springfield rifle, it might have been used by one of the extras in the film -- a Union or Confederate soldier, perhaps. I do know that the now-defunct Planet Hollywood in Atlanta had some very suspicious "props," allegedly from the first Tim Burton BATMAN film. I ate dinner there once with some professional movie propmen (guys who worked on SWAMP THING and IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT), and they howled with laughter at this stuff, denouncing it as obviously fake.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on February 20, 2004, 07:25:57 PM
Concorde! You came back!

Great to see a post from you again. Thanks for adding to this thread! 8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Concorde on February 21, 2004, 07:30:37 AM
 :) Glad to be back again, KC. For the past year I've had technical troubles with three different computers and two different Internet accounts, hence my spotty presence here. Just invested in a new laptop and set up this board as #1 in my favorites list, so maybe now I can appear here more often.

As a big fan of antique firearms (my favorite magazine is GUNS OF THE OLD WEST, which I savor with a gusto most guys reserve for PLAYBOY or CAR AND DRIVER), this particular Topic is obviously my favorite on the Board.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: ListerD on March 21, 2004, 04:55:03 PM
Does anybody have an idea what the brass machine gun was which Ramon Rojo used to ambush the American soldiers in "A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS" ?

I think an 1886 Maxim, which was the first true machine gun (i.e., mechanically operated by the ammunition, rather than a manually-operated weapon, such as the Gatling gun) would fit the time period.

If the weapon WAS a Maxim, I suppose that Ramon Rojo could've somehow gotten hold of one--after all, he and his family were, essentially, arms dealers.

John,

If this is a Maxim, its been seriously modified.  The original model Maxim (often called the Maxim Gun) designed in 1884 was a single-barrel water-cooled weapon.  The barrel/coolant housing was fully enclosed with a single barrel extending beyond the housing.  The rear sight also looks wrong as the Maxim Gun had a tangent sight mounted behind the barrel whereas the gun Ramon is firing has a leaf sight mounted on the barrel.  The belt feeder is also in the wrong place.  Also the weapon appears to be "firing" from several of the "barrels" that can be seen in front-angle footage.  I have a feeling this may have been a scratch-built model as there is no ammo being fed through the belt feeder (not blanks or anything, its completely empty), the receiver doesn't perfectly match anything I've ever seen, and it appears to have over 40 barrels!  Its not a Nordfelt, Vickers, Maxim, or Gatling.  Overall, it looks closest to the Maxim Gun, but I have a feeling that was the intention, to have something that kind of looks like a Maxim.  In other words, my money (or fistful of dollars) is on a scratch-buillt non-working model that looked kinda cool and was historically in the ballpark (in that multi-barreled machine guns were invented by the time.

Also, just an FYI, the Rojos were selling liquor, the Baxters were the gun runners.  Ramon probably got the gun from the American soldiers he and his men ambushed.  Remember he orders his men to pose the bodies of the Mexicans and Americans so it looked like they killed each other.

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on March 21, 2004, 06:43:07 PM
Thanks for the detailed post, ListerD, and welcome to the Eastwood Web Board!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Concorde on March 22, 2004, 04:54:34 AM
Great post, ListerD!

That weird machine gun in FISTFUL has similarly defied my own efforts at identification. It appears to be the same gun -- perhaps literally the very same movie prop -- that was used extensively by Franco Nero in another classic spaghetti western, DJANGO.

I once got a photo of it and posted it on various weapons-collectors' boards, asking for help in identifying it, and nobody ever came forward with an answer. Hence, I really like your theory that it was some sort of one-off special movie prop created for the filmmakers.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: ListerD on March 23, 2004, 09:00:10 PM
Thanks, I'll have to check out Django.  If I dig up any more info, I'll post it here.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Ironfeather on May 04, 2004, 12:27:46 PM

How long before we get to the pistol in Pale Rider?  I'm going nuts trying to find it!  E-mail me the answer if you have it!  :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 04, 2004, 02:43:41 PM
No need to wait Ironfeather.  It's a question that comes up often.  

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/PRgun2.JPG)

Check out this link:

Remington New Army Model  (http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=1622;start=msg24612#msg24612)

I have no idea when I'm going to get to Joe Kidd.  I may have to just give up the idea of doing them in order... :-[
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Washingtonian on May 04, 2004, 10:27:58 PM
Sweet!   I was wondering about that gun. Thanks for finding that! I saw that movie and wondered what pistol that was.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 04, 2004, 10:50:39 PM
To be honest the Remingtons were much stronger of a gun compared to the Colt simply because of the one piece "top" strap conecting the barrel to the grip from the top side.

(http://www.civilwarpreservations.com/images/sale/sfh352.jpg)

Easier to convert to fire metallic cartridges as well.

Synopsis (http://www.chuckhawks.com/uberti_new_army.htm)

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Ironfeather on May 11, 2004, 04:40:51 PM
Thank you all kindly; putting my change in a jar and gonna buy me one!  ;)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: TucoTheRat on May 18, 2004, 06:53:20 PM
The rifle that Clint uses through most of GBU (to shoot nooses, etc.) is a Henry repeater, but "Washingtonian" is quite right about the gun used in the final scene, to shoot Tuco loose from the tree over the grave -- it's some sort of single-shot long range rifle that Blondy acquires from the scabard on Angel Eyes' horse.

I'm new here but I wanted to add a few observations.  The rifle that Blondie uses at the end of the GBU is definately a single shot long range rifle.  The question is which one?

Quote
If you study that rifle carefull, you can not the absence of the ramrod underneath the barrel which shows that it is not a muzzleloader. Also, you can see the absence of any apparent type of magazine and of course the octagonal barrel. Those all seem to point to a Sharps.

This is good stuff right here.  No magazine, No ramrod, and an octagonal barrel.  Now, here is what else I noticed.  As Bondie pulls the rifle up to his shoulder you can see that there is something (circular as far as I can tell) on the left side of the reciever.  This could be a clue or could possably just be a saddle ring.  Since we are talking about the receiver also notice that the fore stock and the receiver both meet each other with a nice smooth line.  (sure wish I had a picture to show this)  The one thing that is the most obvious is the hammer.  It's a very low profile hammer.  Even after Blondie shoots the rope, the hammer still does not portrude far from the top of the receiver.  These last 2 points (low hammer & smooth side reciever) makes me beleive that this is definately not a Sharps rifle.  The Sharps has a massive hammer and the receiver is anything but smooth.  
(http://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976445476-1.jpg)

There were, however, 2 other popular types of long range rifles.  The first was the Remington Rolling Block.  The rolling block was first ordered by the US government in quantity of 20,000 guns in .46 and .50 calibers.  The first rifles were delivered in March of 1865, one month before the end of the war.   It was very different from the Sharps in that it didn't have a lever activated breech.  Instead it had a breech with a metal block that rolled back toward the shooter to load and unload the rifle.  Looking at the rifle it seems to have 2 hammers.  The farthest back is in fact the hammer and the far forward one was the rolling block.  The receiver has a very strange shape to yet it is a very smooth line.  All of the 19th century guns that I have looked at also seem to have something on the left side of the receiver.   I, for the life of me, can not figure out what it is nor have I ever asked.
(http://images.gunsamerica.com/./upload/976132450.jpg)

The other rifle is the Winchester 1885 High Wall.  It is a lever operated drop down block type rifle.  This rifle has a  somewhat smooth joining of the receiver and fore stock and the hammer is noticably low.  
(http://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976458335-1.jpg)

I'm not sure if this leads to a solid conclusion.  I will leave if for all of you to decide.  If you were to ask me, I would say that it's probably the Winchester High Wall.  In the movie I didn't notice a rolling block lever sticking up as he is aiming.  As you can see in the photos, the rolling block lever is quite noticable even if you are looking at it from the front of the rifle.  

I realize the dates really screw up my theory but seeing how this takes place during the war and the fact that the Rolling Blocks weren't delivered in time really makes the dates a non issue.  Besides it's just a movie! ;)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on May 18, 2004, 08:30:37 PM
Hey, great post, Tuco, you seem very knowledgeable!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Washingtonian on May 19, 2004, 02:04:26 PM
Wow Tuco, you are smart.  ;D I just watched the pieces where Clint has the rifle.

When he is putting the rifle in back in the scabbard after he shoots the rope it looks like Clint is grabbing something more than the trigger guard. I never was able to get a little bit of a look at the hammer though. It looked like there was only one.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KyleMoss on August 09, 2004, 11:55:05 AM
Ok...  Bronco Billy. Real Colt's or Great Westerns?  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: umrguy42 on August 11, 2004, 10:45:57 AM
I too am semi-anxious to know what guns were used in Josey Wales, particularly his gun at the beginning, the one he's practicing/regaining his marksmanship with after his farm is burned.  

I'm pretty sure that he has a Colt Navy revolver, I think 1858, and I believe he may carry two Colt Walker pistols (the Shootists' website at http://www.theshootists.co.uk/coltwalkerlives.htm claims the gun is used in the movie) that he later on tends to use as his "main" guns... but that first gun is rather intriguing.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on August 11, 2004, 10:28:22 PM
umrguy42, DAmbrosia seems to have wandered off for a spell ... we hope he'll be back soon. In the meantime, I can tell you that he has identified the "smoky ruins" gun as a Colt 1861 Navy Model, and confirms that the two huge revolvers that Josey is frequently seen brandishing in the film's publicity are indeed "Walker" Colts (the same weapon that proved the doom of Corky Corcoran, as Little Bill relates it, in Unforgiven).

Here's his post about Josey's guns ...
http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?action=display;board=8;threadid=137;start=0#msg2805

This was in a thread about a gun for sale on eBay, a Colt Army model, that was allegedly used by Eastwood in the film. We came to the conclusion that it may have been used by someone else, but probably not by Eastwood.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: umrguy42 on August 12, 2004, 10:46:33 PM
Ah, much obliged for the link KC... even with pictures, which I was particularly looking for.   :D

"Just when I get around to likin' someone, they ain't around for very long."

"I noticed when you get to dislikin' someone, they ain't around for long neither."
 ;)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Swamprat on August 22, 2004, 04:23:30 PM
I've fired repro Walkers...even with modern steel and modern workmanship, these beasts are spooky when squeezing one off. I have a good repro of the Remington '58. Excellent revolvers for thier day. Better accuracy than the Colts and much stronger frames.  Frank James was well known for Remington .44s, both during the war and afterwards when they were converted to cartridge models. The plain lead ball doesn't have much penatration power but like the 1911A1 .45 APC the military used to carry it packs a sledge hammer wallop. I've actually broken 2x4s with it using "soft" lead. I've also fired an original MP40 and the P38 Walther. In my opinion and many other  military collector's opinions the P38 was the finest military automatic ever adopted up to that point in time. Much cheaper and more reliable than the "Luger". My brother owned one for years, a German Army issue. The MP40's a different bird completely. In combat it was notorious for magazine jams. It was viturually impossible to keep it on target for more than one or two rounds. Later models of it had a small hook under the barrel just behind the muzzle to "hook" it onto things to hold the barrel down when firing. I managed to get four rounds through a 4x4 sheet of plywood before it went north and sent 4 more rounds up the side of the tree and then sent a couple into the air. No one else in our group did any better. My Uncle, whose farm we were on and who had owned the machine pistol for decades laughed and told us that the Thompson behaved in the same manner but was a little easier to control due to it's being heavier. He would know, he carried one through 1943 to the end of the war in Eroupe.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on August 22, 2004, 07:18:44 PM
That's interesting, swamprat, though beyond the first few sentences, it doesn't seem to have much to do with the topic of this thread, "Clint's guns." We do have an "off topic" forum for posts that don't relate to Eastwood.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Greg on September 29, 2004, 08:26:21 AM
What is happening with this thread?  Is that it?

It is very interesting to hear all your knowledge on this subject.

More would be appreciated.

Greg.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: mgk on September 29, 2004, 09:20:42 AM
Our good friend, D'Amb is the person who has been giving us this great information and he has been away from the board for a while.  Hopefully, he will be back with us very soon and will be able to give us another segment or two.  :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Sharkemperor on October 16, 2004, 08:57:27 PM
I am new to Westerns, and frankly I am hooked.  This board is tremendous.  I collect all kinds of weapons and I am dying to get my hands on some replicas of the guns clint uses, especially in the GBU.  Can anyone tell me if and where I can buy some look alikes?

Thanks!!! 8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Zaleon on October 25, 2004, 10:11:02 PM
Hello, I'm curious as to what, in your opinions, is the best Clint handgun in all of his movies. It would be much appreciated if I could receive your input.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on October 26, 2004, 08:17:59 PM
Sharkemperor, if you are serious about getting a replica of the gun Blondy uses in the GBD you might have to be willing to shell out some real change.  First off, the Navy Colt Blondy uses in the GBU is converted to fire metallic cartridges which is not so uncommon but in the time frame of the movie was quite impossible.  Blondys conversion model is quite unique because it still has the loading lever that is common to the cap and ball version but has a loading gate behind the the modified cylinder for cartridges. (No ejector rod which infact replaced the loading lever).  To get an exact replica would be very difficult but not impossible for I have seen the version of this early Richards Mason Conversion before (only once).  You can get straight up replicas of the 1851 Navy Colt for anywhere to $70 to $200.  You can buy a modern copy made by Cimarron or Uberti for anywhere from $500 to $1200.  Now if you really wanted the the LOOK of Blondys bad ass conversion you would have to purchase an original 1851 Colt with the loading lever and cap and ball cylinder and purchase a special made cylinder that is able to chamber metallic cartridges and swap out with the cap and ball cylinder with this modified one which I know of only one company that does this kind of thing, the R&D Gun company in Beloit Wisconsin.  I would be interested in you endevor...



And Zaleon, your question is a matter of opinion of course... ;)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: blondie_rjh on October 27, 2004, 10:50:42 AM
hey bro , i tired to find that gn company that makes the conversion for the pistol that blondie has in the gbu , but to no success, are u sure r &d is the right company,   so long blondie
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on October 27, 2004, 11:22:49 AM
Oh I'm sure...  I don't think they have a web site, If they do I can't find it. I remember reading about them in Shooting Magizine awhile back.  I'll try to dig up some more info and post later...  As I remember, It's a two piece cylinder, the back piece containing firing pins and the front a bore through cylinder which you place your cartridges. Pretty clever set up as where you can take your ball and cap percussion revolver and not have to convert it to catridges thus having the best of both worlds...
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on October 27, 2004, 11:56:51 AM
Here is the address:

Kenny Howell (Owner) R&D Gun Shop:
5728 E. County Rd. X
Beloit, WI 53511
608-676-5628
608-676-2269

Here's a good picture of the modified cylinder:
(http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/cylinder-sm.jpg)

R&D 1851 Navy Conversion:
R&D Guns in the United States makes the best conversion repops on the market, essentially producing handmade guns that sell for about $1000. They also supply a conversion cylinder that swaps right into a percussion model for $240. What made the 1851 Navy popular on the frontier was the excellent balance with its 7-1/2-in. barrel and its deadly accuracy. Wild Bill Hickok carried two of them. The conversions use .38 Colt ammunition.

Reprinted from Popular Mechinics Website:
New Guns of the Old West (http://popularmechanics.com/outdoors/firearms/2002/8/new_guns_of_old_west/index2.phtml)

A write up I found about the Old Army conversion cylinder:
Old Army (http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/guests/r&dreview.htm)

Yet another one found about The New Army:
New Army (http://www.alliancelink.com/users/frontier/srrs/articles/randdcyl.htm)

Hope that helps :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: petritheturtle on December 03, 2004, 08:26:45 AM
What revolver does Clint use in Bloodwork? Its an 8 shot. I don't know which model though.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: BGanzo on December 07, 2004, 07:33:35 PM
" I have strong feelings about gun control. If there's a gun around, I want to be controlling it. '

-- (from Pink Cadillac, 1989 - John Eskow)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: English_Bob_270 on January 07, 2005, 05:48:09 PM
I would really like to know what type of gun Clint uses in The Gauntlet.  I am sure you guys know.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on January 07, 2005, 10:02:24 PM
Here is a thread where we discussed the "Gauntlet" gun ....

http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=1941
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: English_Bob_270 on January 07, 2005, 11:12:03 PM
Thanks alot KC.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on February 13, 2005, 01:32:15 AM
Joe Kidd 

   

(http://img191.exs.cx/img191/3990/jk17kz.jpg)
Hard to say what make the shotgun is.  There were several American companies of the day but like I always say a shotgun is a shotgun.  A shotgun shell, for those of you that don’t know, is usually comprised of shot, or little BB's or ball bearings, that when fired from the gun spread out in great diameter.  The further away from the barrel the “shot” fired the larger the pattern of shot spreads.  That’s why anyone with a shotgun can be an effective foe.  You don’t necessarily have to be a good shot to get results with a shotgun.
(http://img191.exs.cx/img191/3373/jk25xf.jpg)

Here we see Joe with a 12 gauge Coach Gun...

The Coach gun was a double barrel shotgun that became popular with stagecoach drivers and guards, hence the name. Coach guns are scaled down in barrel length for easy handling and compactness usually around 20 inches, (36 overall).  More than likely always a 12 gauge, (sometimes 10) to get more bang for the buck.  Weighting around 9 pounds the gun was a crack open breechloader with side-by-side barrels.  The “Double Barrel” could never jam and it’s two external hammers, or rabbit ears, and double triggers made it relatively safe from accidental discharge thus requiring no safety.  Virtually indestructible and capable of firing under the most extreme conditions the gun could be reliable even if grossly soiled or battered around.  The most Important aspect was to keep your shells dry.  As long as you did that you were sitting in the drivers seat, no pun intended. 
 
(http://img191.exs.cx/img191/4011/jk55zy.jpg)

Joe’s pistol here is a Colt 1873 SSA Cavalry model 7-½ inch barrel.

(http://www.ocyoung.com/images/41SAA7.5.jpg)


(http://img187.exs.cx/img187/2637/jk84gu.jpg)

Now for the fun stuff.  Here we have the C-96 Mauser Broom handle, the first true automatic pistol.  Interestingly enough it was not designed by Paul Mauser but by three brothers by the last name of Feederle that worked for him in his experimental workshop.  The US army in WWII destroyed all records of all Mauser production and specs as they were ordered to burn the factory down by the brass.  Chambered for the 7.62 round, the precursor to the 9 mm, it had a very effective range and usually had a ten round “stripper” clip that you could just slide in the bottom, chamber a round and off you went.  They did have a 20 round clip but it was bulky and cumbersome hanging off the gun and not very efficient for travel. It’s holster, traveling case, was wooden and served as an attachable stock as seen with Joe Kidd above.  It was used to assassinate the last Czar Nicholas II   and Winston Churchill was known to carry one in the Boer Wars.  It’s funny to see this weapon in a Western but in doing some research I found that a few Spaghetti Westerns used them…Check it out...Fistful of Westerns (http://website.lineone.net/~braithwaitej/mainsite/overview/guns/mauser.htm)


(http://www.classicfirearms.co.uk/BHoldspec.jpg)
1896 Mauser "Broomhandle" 7.62mm

(http://www.g6csy.net/c96/blaster.jpg)
Han Solo's C-96 from Star Wars with a few special modifications.

(http://img187.exs.cx/img187/816/jk106ut.jpg)
Now comes the mystery rifle we see Joe Kidd with here picking off the henchman on the rocks.  I had an expert from a gun forum tell me that it is a Canadian Ross but by looking at the Ross myself it doesn’t really look like it to me.  I have compared it to literally hundreds of rifles but nothing of that time period seems to have that long exposed barrel.  One gun that it does look like is the Winchester model 70 but I believe that started production in the ’30’s, which is not to say it wasn’t used in the movie.     
(http://img187.exs.cx/img187/8669/jk112pf.jpg)


(http://www.nagelsguns.net/WinM70_93765_02.JPG)
The Winchester Model 70

Or the Canadian Ross????
(http://img22.exs.cx/img22/5755/ross16yc.jpg)

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: mattfighter on February 20, 2005, 07:56:51 PM
i believe this is the gun blondie uses in GBU its a 1851 Navy Colt and the conversion
(http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/images/richards_mason_cart_conv.jpg)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on March 08, 2005, 11:52:11 PM
High Plains Drifter

(http://img115.exs.cx/img115/9954/hpdbarbershop3nc.jpg)(http://img115.exs.cx/img115/5835/hpdlookfunnydetail1bw.jpg)

The Strangers gun is a Colt Single Action Army Calvary Model 7 1/2inch barrel either .45 or .44 caliber.

The Colt Single Action Army was introduced in 1873 and remains in production today. It remains the gun most associated with the American West, where it was no doubt the most popular full sized revolver of the late 1800's.


Not a gun but I’ll throw it in just for fun…
Whips have been around since the Egyptians and mainly used to drive animals but as they found out it worked well for punishment.
(http://img215.exs.cx/img215/952/hpdwhip20bf.jpg)(http://img115.exs.cx/img115/4175/hpdwhip2detail8nq.jpg)

The sound of the whip “cracking” is actually the tip exceeding the speed of sound and creating a mini sonic boom.
The dinosaur Apatosaurus is said to be able to crack it's 41 foot long 3,200 pound tail at about 200 decibels, about 2,000 times the energy of a modern bullwhip.


Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on March 29, 2005, 11:15:16 PM
Magnum Force:

As well as the .44 Magnum Harry also demonstrates his shooting skills with the timeless .357 Magnum.

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/MF357-1.JPG)(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/MF357-2.JPG)
The famous .357 Magnum, the original magnum pistol cartridge, was introduced in 1935 by Smith & Wesson as the world's most powerful handgun cartridge. For over 20 years it was simply known as "the Magnum," as there was no other. Newer magnum cartridges eventually surpassed it in power, but not in popularity or usefulness.

The 110 and 125 grain bullets are the top choices for personal defense (against "bad guys").


Harry uses a Colt Python Model in Magnum Force to foil the fascists cops by deliberately missing a target during the shooting contest and later retrieving the bullet to run his own personal ballistic test on it to match it up with the dirty cops pistol.

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/MF357-1a.JPG)

The Colt Python was officially introduced in 1955 as Colt's top-of the-line revolver.  Originally intended to be a large frame, double action (DA), .38 Special target revolver.  This fortuitous decision resulted in what is arguably the best all-around handgun in the world. Almost immediately the Python gained a reputation as the premium American revolver.

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/MF357-2a.JPG)

The Python has special features. Like all Colt revolvers the cylinder rotates into the frame for an extremely tight lock-up The Python barrel has a ventilated rib on top and a full length underlug.  Inside, Python barrels are bored with a very slight, full length, taper toward the muzzle for superior accuracy.
(http://www.filmwaffen.de/00560_03.JPG)
SPECIFICATIONS
Type:  Double Action
Caliber:  .357 Magnum
Barrel Length:  4; 6; 8 inches
Weight:  38 ounces (4 in. barrel, empty)
Sights:  Ramp (front); Fully Adjustable (rear)
Stocks:  Rubber Combat (4 in.); Rubber Target (6, 8 in.)
Cartridge Capacity:  6
Finish:  Blue; Stainless; Bright Stainless


Italic descriptions taken by permission from various Chuck Hawks (http://www.chuckhawks.com/colt_python_syn.htm) articles.
-Thanks Chuck…
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: jestergirl187 on March 31, 2005, 11:32:39 PM
I love the pictures.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Winchester Gal on April 10, 2005, 12:30:18 PM
I know a lot about guns, I own guns and shoot guns. My whole family loves guns, but I just have never seen Clint's rifle at the end of The Good, Bad and the Ugly! It does not have a long cartridge tube under the barrel. It can't be a shotgun, because shotguns don't fire that very far. So I don't know what it is, help me out anyone?
???
-Winchester Gal
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on April 10, 2005, 03:09:58 PM
Try knocking on the door ....
http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=864.msg12677#msg12677
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Doc Holliday on April 10, 2005, 03:35:06 PM
Great thread and great pictures.

About two years ago, the National Rifle Association had a display of Hollywood weapons at its HQ in Fairfax, VA.  One gun on display was one of the .44 Colt revolvers Clint used in "The Outlaw Josey Wales" and its rubber prop counterpart.

Anytime Clint, or any other movie hero, drops his gun, he is most likely dropping a rubber copy to keep the real one from getting damaged.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Doc Holliday on April 10, 2005, 03:36:54 PM
I know a lot about guns, I own guns and shoot guns. My whole family loves guns, but I just have never seen Clint's rifle at the end of The Good, Bad and the Ugly! It does not have a long cartridge tube under the barrel. It can't be a shotgun, because shotguns don't fire that very far. So I don't know what it is, help me out anyone?
???
-Winchester Gal


It's a Henry repeater, which was introduced in the Civil War and was widely used until the Winchester repeater came out in the early 1870s.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Winchester Gal on April 10, 2005, 03:40:40 PM
Hmm KC. I dunno, when Blondie was tryin' to save another hangin' guy, he was usin' a Henry I know that. But at the very end, where he is joking with Tuco that he was hangin' him. The rifle had a Octagon barrel with no tubular magazine. Yeah, I have a 1894 Winchester Lever, but that has a tube magazine, unlike Clint's rifle at the end. Maybe I'm way outta line!  :D
-Winchester Gal
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Winchester Gal on April 10, 2005, 06:18:00 PM
I've got it! I was doin' my research and looking at Clint's rifle and I think it's a old Buffalo Gun. Like a Spencer ore something like that. Silly me.  ::)
-Winchester Gal
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Brendan on April 10, 2005, 07:00:33 PM
I've got it! I was doin' my research and looking at Clint's rifle and I think it's a old Buffalo Gun. Like a Spencer ore something like that. Silly me.  ::)
-Winchester Gal

If you followed KC's link which she provided earlier...:

Try knocking on the door ....
http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=864.msg12677#msg12677

You would have seen this:

Your right about the rifle maddog it is indeed an 1860 Henry Repeating Rifle as seen below.  This is Tucos life saver for much of the movie...

The Good The Bad And The Ugly    1860  Henry Rifle 
(http://www.wyandottraditions.com/1860-henry-rifle-blue-24.jpg)

The Henry rifle story is a very interesting story. It was the first successful repeating rifle that evolved into some of the best lever action rifles in the world, the Winchesters.  The first of the Winchesters was the Model 1866.  This rifle was nothing more than an improved Henry using the same ammunition.  The Model 1866 included a redesigned magazine that was not opened to dirt.  It loaded by means of a loading gate in the right side of the receiver.  The Model 1866 also had a wooden forearm stock to protect against burns during prolong shooting.  This is getting a little ahead of our story.  The use of the Henry begins in the Civil War.

The Henry played an important role during the Civil War, mainly in the western theater. It was used from the very beginning to the bitter end of the Civil War.  The soldiers developed confidence when using their Henrys that did not exist with a muzzle loader. The Henry rifle was the first of the truly rapid fire small arms that was practical.  However the United States government did not adopt a repeating rifle until the Model 1892 Krag.

The Henry rifle made a name for itself on the American frontier of the 1860's to1880's. It was not replaced until those using Henrys could replace them with a more modern weapon. The Henry was used by ranchers and soldiers as well as Indians. Custer found this out too late. In fact there is one hill located at the Little Bighorn that is known as Henry Hill because of the large number of Henry casings that were discovered there.

The Henry underwent very few changes during its production.  The butt plate was changed slightly and some guns do not have a lever latch. There was an iron frame Henry but most Henrys were brass frame. The sights were mounted on the frame or the barrel. The barrel length was standard at 24 inches but some examples may be found with shorter barrels. The ammunition remained the same throughout production. It was a 216 grain bullet and 26 to 28 grains of black powder.

Today original Henrys are collectors’ items commanding high prices. These start at around $6,000 and go up from there.  There has not been ammunition produced for years and what can be found is also highly collectable and too expensive to shoot.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Winchester Gal on April 10, 2005, 07:07:46 PM
Yeah, I read KC's link. Thanks  :)
-Winchester Gal
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on April 10, 2005, 08:03:22 PM
WinchesterGirl, I see what you're saying now. Sorry I answered in haste before. I think that gun has to be Angel Eyes's ... it has to be his black horse that Blondy rides off on at the end. (Just before the cemetery scene, Tuco and Blondy arrive at the ruined church on foot, and the horse Tuco steals there is brown.) The gun is carried in a scabbard attached to the black's saddle.
(http://img16.exs.cx/img16/3001/gbu2ndriflehorse0ii.jpg)


This is what it looks like when Blondy fires it ...
(http://img16.exs.cx/img16/2329/gbu2ndrifle9dr.jpg)


If it's a Spencer rifle, it's different from the one Ned and Munny use in Unforgiven ... that has a round barrel.
(http://img134.exs.cx/img134/3801/unforgivenspencerrifle7xo.jpg)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on April 10, 2005, 09:08:27 PM
It is very difficult to determine.  Both Spencer’s and Sharps were around at the time and both were issued to Union troops.

Both Sharps and Spencer’s were manufactured with octagonal and round barrels so you can’t necessarily determine the make by that means.
 
The real trick to determining the difference between the Spencer and the Sharps is the loading lever action in front of the trigger on the Spencer.  The Spencer repeater has a distinctive “dip” were part of the action mechanism is housed.  There is no “dip” in a Sharps, it's a single shot breechloader.  Unfortunately this feature, or lack of it, is hidden by Blondie’s left arm.   

The clue to solving this is the metal ring around the forestock and barrel of the Spencer.  Sharps do not have this ring.  Most, but not all, Spencer’s do…

Sharps below: 

(http://img231.exs.cx/img231/6384/515648wm.jpg)

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Winchester Gal on April 11, 2005, 03:09:42 PM
Whew! I’m glad you got my point. Anyway, the rifle Blondie fires at the very end where Tuco thinks he’s getting hanged is not Blondie’s 1860 Henry that he saves Tuco with. I have this book, The Illustrated Book of Guns and I'm skimming through it, right now looking for something close to that rifle. The closest to that is a Spencer, but I don't know, I'll do some more research.
Quote
My mule don't like people laughin'..
>:D
-Wincheter Gal
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on April 11, 2005, 04:52:30 PM
Winchester Gal, are you ruling out the Sharps completely?  To me it looks more like a Sharps than a Spencer, however, I'm not ruling out the fact it could be a Spencer... 
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Winchester Gal on April 12, 2005, 06:06:49 PM
No, I'm not rulin' out Sharps at all, DAmbrosia.
In fact, it could be either one. I dunno. Thanks all!
 :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: palooka on April 19, 2005, 03:56:36 AM
Great thread and great pictures.

About two years ago, the National Rifle Association had a display of Hollywood weapons at its HQ in Fairfax, VA.  One gun on display was one of the .44 Colt revolvers Clint used in "The Outlaw Josey Wales" and its rubber prop counterpart.

Anytime Clint, or any other movie hero, drops his gun, he is most likely dropping a rubber copy to keep the real one from getting damaged.


Unless a weapon is actually being fired on set it will usually be rubber gun. Productions can avoid expensive armourers being on set on these days. On that note ..

My business and hobby is movie props and here is a picture of one of my favourite pieces.

(http://69.151.80.72/propstoreuk/images/products/593/unforgiven_rifle1.jpg)

Its the "stunt" rubber version on the Richards shotgun used in Unforgiven and the end of the film and thrown at Gene Hackman.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: El bueno on April 19, 2005, 08:05:16 AM
That's a nice Clint autograph Palooka
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lilly on April 19, 2005, 01:52:44 PM
Very cool Palooka. 8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Doc Holliday on April 19, 2005, 07:52:54 PM
It looks like a variation of a Sharps.  The Sharps was used quite a bit in the Civil War, so it's possible.  I went to the museum at Gettysburg a couple of years ago and saw just about every variation of every weapon used in GBU, so just about everybody's right to a degree.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lin Sunderland on April 20, 2005, 08:49:58 AM
Really cool and an autograph you can check against the ones on eBay, so you will know if they are genuine. O0
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 08, 2005, 11:28:44 PM
Thunderbolt and Lightfoot 1974

(http://img62.exs.cx/img62/8671/tandlantitankgun17nm.jpg)

Many people mistake the big gun in Thunderbolt and Lightfoot as an Anti-Tank gun and in actuality it is an Anti-Aircraft gun.

(http://img62.exs.cx/img62/8186/tandlantitankgun22nz.jpg)

Widely used by the Allied nations, the Swiss-designed 20mm Oerlikon AA MG was probably produced in higher numbers than any other AA weapon of WWII.  The USA alone manufactured a total of 124,735 guns.  The first USA built gun was test-fired on 8 June 1941 and 379 had been delivered by 7 December 1941.  These guns were air-cooled and used a gas blow-back recoil system. 

In 1944-45, the US found that the 20mm shells were too light to stop the Japanese Kamikaze planes and the higher aircraft speeds made manually controlled guns obsolete.  As a result, these weapons were replaced by 40mm Bofors where ever possible and removed from most US ships shortly after the war.


Oerlikon almost went bankrupt in 1935 when the USN rejected their 20mm Model 1934 weapon because of its low rate of fire (265 rpm).  Only the Japanese Navy's purchase of this weapon saved the company and permitted it to perform further development work which resulted in the much more successful model used during WWII.

(http://www.usstexasbb35.com/texas20mmAAgun.gif)
20mm Oerlikon Anti-Aircraft Gun


Clint’s other guns, the one he uses on the the manager of Montana Armored  and the guns he takes off of Red are Colt .38 Specials with suppressors.
(http://img138.echo.cx/img138/2003/talnotevenatwig23kl.jpg)
(http://img247.echo.cx/img247/6752/tandlgun3pn.jpg)
(http://img138.echo.cx/img138/5466/talnotevenatwig11hu.jpg)
Smith and Wesson devised the regular .38 caliber black powder cartridge in 1877 for it’s revolvers of the day.  Colt also chambered revolvers for the cartridge, which they called the .38 Colt New Police.  In 1902 Smith & Wesson came out with the .38 Special cartridge, a 10th of inch longer than it’s predecessor.  The shell is one of  the all time favorite revolver cartridges. Since introduced it has become on of the must worldwide cartridges produced.  Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets thus making it possible to fire the .38 special cartridge out of a .357 Magnum handgun, but not the other way around…Typical factory loads give the standard pressure 158 grain lead bullet a muzzle velocity of 755 fps and 200 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy.  More wallop than the plain old .38  (Reprinted from my Coogans Bluff clip)

(http://www.hallowellco.com/Colt-PP-Spec-943272-left.jpg)
Colt .38 Special with 4 inch barrel...
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Concorde on May 10, 2005, 04:47:14 AM
I just loaded my DVD copy of THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY into this computer and rewatched the last sequence (where Blondy shoots the rope) on step-frame, and I'm still totally baffled about what sort of long-range rifle is being used there.

The hammer looks a lot bigger than those on the Winchester High-Wall and the Remington Rolling Block. I'm leaning more toward the Sharps again. I know we ruled out the Sharps because it has a non-smooth receiver, but....Gosh, could it be a Spencer after all?

What a head-scratcher!!

 ???
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: GuardianAngel on May 10, 2005, 07:30:17 AM
I just loaded my DVD copy of THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY into this computer and rewatched the last sequence (where Blondy shoots the rope) on step-frame, and I'm still totally baffled about what sort of long-range rifle is being used there.

The hammer looks a lot bigger than those on the Winchester High-Wall and the Remington Rolling Block. I'm leaning more toward the Sharps again. I know we ruled out the Sharps because it has a non-smooth receiver, but....Gosh, could it be a Spencer after all?

What a head-scratcher!!

 ???

Is this the part you're talkin about amigo? If so, I can host these images here so you can look at them rather than surf through the DVD... and so others can see it too.. If not, I will delete this post then.  :)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/ZeroBlank/Blondierifle1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/ZeroBlank/Blondierifle2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/ZeroBlank/Blondierifle3.jpg)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Concorde on May 10, 2005, 10:58:14 AM
 ;D


Ahhh, excellent!

That image in the center is gonna be very helpful!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 10, 2005, 06:14:21 PM
Concord, we disscused that very rifle in this thread:

Clint's rifle in GBU (http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=4181.0)

I know that sometimes it's just what the prop master have avalible too... O0

It's just a fun game I play to see if they really match up...

[Edit by KC: these two topics are now merged, so the link above won't work. The first post in the "Clint's rifle in GBU" topic is now here:
http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=4347.msg61454#msg61454 ]
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on May 10, 2005, 07:31:08 PM
Concord, we disscused that very rifle in this thread ...

Yup, and I posted some caps there, too ... ;)

GA, thanks for posting more caps here ... I hope you won't mind if I point out that they are slightly distorted. They need to be either wider, and the same height, or shorter, and the same width. Like this ...
(http://img228.echo.cx/img228/8348/gbu2ndriflefull2dv.jpg)

(http://img74.echo.cx/img74/4508/gbu2ndrifle2full1mw.jpg)

Here's a larger detail of that last one ...
(http://img74.echo.cx/img74/6485/gbu2ndrifle23rf.jpg)

I wonder if the fact that so many DVDs are "enhanced for widescreen TVs" is responsible for the distorted screen caps that turn up here and there? I used to have a capture program that didn't "understand" the correct proportions, and I used to have to resize every cap I got with it. I'm now using the capping program that's built into WinDVD version 5, and it makes 'em the way they're supposed to be.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Concorde on May 10, 2005, 08:00:00 PM
Well, the folks who think Blondy's gold-receiver rifle is a Henry are certainly not right! (I'm talking here about the one he uses to rescue Tuco from the noose in town.)

Clint's got his fingers covering the loading gate on the right side of its receiver, but the gun's obviously a Winchester "Yellow Boy" from which the wooden forearm has been removed to make it look like a Henry. (The Henry had no such aperture; it was loaded via a slot near the end of the barrel.)

Guess you could say it's a Winchester "playing" a Henry!  ;D

This is more common than you might think. The Audrey Hepburn movie called THE UNFORGIVEN (not Clint's similarly titled film) is chock full of Winchester Model 92's with their forearms removed so they look like Henrys.

The problem with using real old antique Henrys during the 1950s and 1960s was that those rifles took a very strange proprietary ammo (".44 Henry Flat") and would not cycle the standard Hollywood blanks. However, that's no longer a problem today, since modern replicas have become available in more familiar calibers (.44-40, .45 LC, etc.).
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Concorde on May 10, 2005, 08:05:37 PM
Sorry for the repetition.... :-[

It's just that several folks contacted me offline and asked me to join in the discussion of "the rifle from GBU," and I naturally thought this thread is where that was happening.

I'll skip over to the other Topic now....thanks for herding me toward the right corral.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 10, 2005, 09:32:35 PM
Sorry for the repetition.... :-[

It's just that several folks contacted me offline and asked me to join in the discussion of "the rifle from GBU," and I naturally thought this thread is where that was happening.

I'll skip over to the other Topic now....thanks for herding me toward the right corral.

That was me Concord, or at least one of 'em, thanks for stopping by.  Your expertice is much appreciated.  That's why I asked you to join in.  I thought you could add some interesting in site.

Maybe we should just consolidate all gun related threads into one???  What do you think mods???
It's much easier to keep track of that way...
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 10, 2005, 09:47:15 PM
Well, the folks who think Blondy's gold-receiver rifle is a Henry are certainly not right! (I'm talking here about the one he uses to rescue Tuco from the noose in town.)

Clint's got his fingers covering the loading gate on the right side of its receiver, but the gun's obviously a Winchester "Yellow Boy" from which the wooden forearm has been removed to make it look like a Henry. (The Henry had no such aperture; it was loaded via a slot near the end of the barrel.)

Guess you could say it's a Winchester "playing" a Henry!  ;D

This is more common than you might think. The Audrey Hepburn movie called THE UNFORGIVEN (not Clint's similarly titled film) is chock full of Winchester Model 92's with their forearms removed so they look like Henrys.

The problem with using real old antique Henrys during the 1950s and 1960s was that those rifles took a very strange proprietary ammo (".44 Henry Flat") and would not cycle the standard Hollywood blanks. However, that's no longer a problem today, since modern replicas have become available in more familiar calibers (.44-40, .45 LC, etc.).

You are absolutely right Concord!!!  It is Indeed a Yellowboy.  I'll have to go back and modify my original post.  I can't believe I didn't catch that... :-[
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on May 10, 2005, 10:51:25 PM

Maybe we should just consolidate all gun related threads into one???  What do you think mods???
It's much easier to keep track of that way...

Well, I've merged Winchester Gal's thread about  the second GBU rifle from the Westerns forum into this one, but because posts in merged threads go in by chronological order, it might be a littIe confusing ... I edited a few of the earlier posts to insert quotes, so it would be clear what was being referred to, and D'Amb, I also edited one of your posts where you gave the link to the "GBU Rifle" thread to add the link to where the beginning of that thread is now.

I think this will be better in the long run.  :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: palooka on May 11, 2005, 12:12:48 AM
Fascinating reading guys. You all know your stuff!

Can we get an overview at some point? A nice easy to read difinitive list of his weapons covered to date?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lin Sunderland on May 11, 2005, 01:06:36 AM
Can we get an overview at some point? A nice easy to read difinitive list of his weapons covered to date?

That would be great.  I am very much a novice on Clint's guns, in fact guns in general, but I am so interested in the posts in this thread.  I must add that I am starting to look at the guns in the movies now instead of just seeing them only as a prop.   You will educate me yet.  Thanks to all for sharing their knowledge. :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 11, 2005, 08:51:15 AM
Quote
Quote from: palooka on Today at 03:12:48 AM:

Can we get an overview at some point? A nice easy to read difinitive list of his weapons covered to date?

That would be great.  I am very much a novice on Clint's guns, in fact guns in general, but I am so interested in the posts in this thread.  I must add that I am starting to look at the guns in the movies now instead of just seeing them only as a prop.   You will educate me yet.  Thanks to all for sharing their knowledge. :)

That's the plan, once I have gone through every movie and listed all the guns and made all the appropriate corrections, I will make a list accordingly... :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lin Sunderland on May 12, 2005, 01:29:07 AM
That's the plan, once I have gone through every movie and listed all the guns and made all the appropriate corrections, I will make a list accordingly... :)

Great D'Ambrosia, I look forward to it. 8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Kiwi Cowboy on June 10, 2005, 09:59:10 PM
interesting reading
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: RY on June 14, 2005, 06:32:06 PM
There also was the 4" Colt Python he "borrowed" from David Soul in "Magnum Force."
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: paulk on July 15, 2005, 10:17:01 PM
not sure if anyone mentioned...how about the harpoon gun used by Harry at the end of the Dead Pool.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: LIBERATOR on July 19, 2005, 03:54:15 PM
Where Eagles Dare--1969
(http://yuchtar.users4.50megs.com/Burt_Clint.jpg) (http://ibelgique.ifrance.com/cinedestin/films/q/quandlesaiglesattaquent.jpg)

Clint uses "The Machine Pistol", as it would translate from German, as a killing machine (as the narrator from The Man From Malpso called him) is that of a very clever German made cartridge.  Surly you've heard of it in one capacity or another.
 
 
 It very well may be the best cartridge ever invented.  the .9mm parabellum (very close to a .38 special)  German made and had this  kind of stuff in all sorts of weapons during the war.  Pistols,  Lugars, Sub-Machine Guns, Rifles, the whole lot....  Anyway the cartridge is still used today in all kinds of weapons from the Berretta to the Uzi....We were running around for the .30 and the .45 and the .50's  All they had to do is have one gun, one ammo the .9mm, (I mean, not in all respects of course...)

Anyhow, Lt. Shaffers German MP-40 .9mm  Sub-Machine Pistol AKA as the "Schmeisser"  You've seen it in old War flicks...:
(http://www.philaord.com/images/products/MP40A-mast.jpg)(http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:yq8ymdo-u00C:world.guns.ru/smg/mp40.jpg)The MP-40 9mm Schmeisser could fire upto 500 rounds  a minute spitting off a115 gr. FMJ 1375 ft/s at 3 impacts on 4" triangle.

(http://www.militarytour.com/Reproductions/ImagesReproduct/MP40.h1.jpg)
MP40 'Schmeisser', 1940*
  350-500 rpm
cal,mag,vel,rate  9,00 x 19 mm, 32 rnd mag, 380 m/s,
l,barrel_l,mass  629 mm, 251 mm, 3,97 kg

... but I probably shouldn't bring this up here. The admin will boot me.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: mgk on July 19, 2005, 04:23:59 PM
... but I probably shouldn't bring this up here. The admin will boot me.

Nope, you shouldn't bring it up here or the admin. will boot you.  So, why don't you stop doing it?

I edited your post to remove what is not allowed.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Deputy on July 22, 2005, 05:15:40 AM
If someone has already posted this. I apologize  :)

Just to be pickyune...the picture and information that D'Ambrosia provided of the 1851 Navy in post #5 is incorrect for what Clint uses in TGTBATU. The gun is right, an 1851 Navy, but the triggerguard on Clint's gun was round and not squared in the back. The loading lever IS still in place on Clint's gun. And there is NO ejector installed. The only major change done to the revolver was the installation of a conversion cylinder to take .38 Long Colt cartridges and cutting the frame to allow ejection of spent cartridges. I wanted to buy a duplicate of Clints gun and do the same conversion he had. I went frame by frame in the scene where he had it broken down for cleaning and all of this information can be seen there. Ejecting brass may have been a problem on Clint's gun, since when they fire they expand against the chamber. That's why an ejector is normally installed. I suspect they used cartridges in ALL the guns in the movie because it made it easier to load blanks.

As to Colonel Mortimer's gun. It's an 1858 Remington. Much sturdier gun and much more easily reloaded when shooting black powder. It appears it was also converted to a cartridge gun. The Remington can handle the more powerful (and more deadly) .45 Long Colt as used in the Colt Single Action Army.

BTW....the snake on Clint's revolver is also present on Fistful of Dollars and For a Few Dollars More. Very  8)

And both Clint and Lee Van Cleef used the same Andy Anderson holster rigs from the two previous movies. They look a little strange because the barrels of the Civil War guns hang out pretty far.

Dep
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Greg Sanders on August 26, 2005, 08:00:50 AM
Has Dambrosia finished the list of Clint's guns?

It a very interesting thread, one I have been reading since the start, it is only now that I have become a member of this site.

Keep it coming...... V interesting

Greg.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 09, 2005, 03:57:14 PM
Deputy, to respond to your post you are correct in saying the gun in the picture is not an exact replica of Clint’s gun from The Good The Bad and The Ugly.  However, it is the closest to what Clint uses in the movie.  I thought it important to show the “conversion” style ’51 Colt because of the loading gate.  I will modify the original post with the correct wording but am going to leave the picture because it is the closest I can find of a ’51 Colt with a loading gate. If you can find a better picture of a '51 Colt with a loading gate with the loading lever intact feel free to post it up.   At one time I did have a more accurate picture but I do not have the ability to host images so it makes it hard to post up exact replicas. 

Thanks for pointing that out.

Once this thread is done I will revise the entire synopisis and have it as accurate as possible. 

This is what this thread is all about and I don't claim to be an expert but just someone who is interested in historical guns and thought it would be an interesting undertaking. 
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on September 09, 2005, 05:53:03 PM
D'Amb, if you come across any pictures that you feel are really too valuable to this discussion to risk losing, let me know and I'll host 'em for you.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Deputy on September 09, 2005, 08:06:41 PM
D'Ambrosia: I didn't mean any criticism of your fine efforts to describe what he has. I'm just pickyune  ;D
I have my 1851 Navy in the gunsmith right now having the exact same modification that Clint had to his done to mine. I will be happy to send you a pic of it when it's completed.

Dep
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 09, 2005, 08:38:54 PM
No Worries Deputy...

I certainly hear what your saying and your right...

I need to find a more accurate pic to post in that spot. 

What's cool about this modified conversion is the fact that it still has the "creeping" loading lever intacted and does not have the ejector rod which most every Richards Mason conversions have.  It does have a loading gate to breech load the gun with metallic cartridges.

The guns such as Blondie's that have both the loading lever and loading gate seem to be very rare committies but some conversions do have both.  I've seen only one and infact, at one time, did have a picture of one posted up where the contriverail picture is now...  In my movie fantasy world I'm thinking that the conversion gives Blondie the capability to "swap" out cylinders to toggle back in forth from cap and ball to cartridges when need be, but of course that would require major adjustments and would not be feasible at the drop of a dime.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Deputy on September 10, 2005, 06:29:14 AM
Actually, the "swapping out" thing is not complicated at all. My 1851 will have that feature on it. Simply remove the conversion cylinder and gate assembly and install the old BP cylinder. Nothing to it and you are back to a BP cylinder/gun instantly. The loading gate is part of the conversion and drops out with the conversion cylinder. Here's the website that describes it:

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/colt.html


Dep
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 10, 2005, 09:41:28 AM
Actually, the "swapping out" thing is not complicated at all. My 1851 will have that feature on it. Simply remove the conversion cylinder and gate assembly and install the old BP cylinder. Nothing to it and you are back to a BP cylinder/gun instantly. The loading gate is part of the conversion and drops out with the conversion cylinder. Here's the website that describes it:

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/colt.html


Dep

Yeah, but the conversion cylinder your getting has individual firing pins for every bore.  Back in Blondie's day, there would be now way of machining that type of cylinder and would require Blondie to attach or detach a firing pin from the hammer each time he would "swap" out a cylinder.  I'm not saying it's not impossible, infact, quite possible but there would be a few more steps involved back then compared to today.

I have come across a excerpt from a book on the web about just that and will try to post it up.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 10, 2005, 10:12:25 AM
I came across this excerpt from the Company's Web Page you are getting your conversion done Deputy, or should I say, Trapdoor Mike... LOL :)

http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/history.html

During the three years that S&W was waiting for the Colt patent to expire, they acquired the rights to the Rollin White patent for the bored through cylinder. Thus beginning in 1857, Colt's could not produce a breech loading cartridge-firing revolver for more than a decade, until 1869 when the Rollin White patent expired. Nor for that matter, could any other gunmaker in the United States. Nevertheless, there were countless patent infringements during the Civil War by small gunmakers, particularly Manhattan Fire Arms Manufacturing Co., of Newark, New Jersey, which produced several cartridge-firing models in the early 1860s. These, among others, either made in the U.S. or imported from Europe (where the S&W and White patents had no legality), put thousands of cartridge-firing pistols into the hands of both Union and Confederate soldiers during the War Between the States.

From the Book:
Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values™
Second Edition. By Dennis Adler

Interesting.  This is the first "official" reference I have ever come across in three years of researching this topic.

I would have to imaging that the "illegal" coversion was not the hard part.  The real trick would be comming up with the metallic cartridges....
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Deputy on September 10, 2005, 11:05:29 AM
 D'Ambrosia (aka Tuco  ;D )

Wow!!! Never knew that!!! That is VERY interesting info!!! I STRONGLY suggest you post it at that other place. I bet lots of folks have no idea about that.

BTW...glad you are "over there". But be warned...some of those folks take what they do more seriously than you would think. Some get downright snippy with new members. I've had my head bit off more than few times with posts I made. PM me if you get jumped on. I got your back. Newbies over there have to stick together or get trampled.

Hmmmm...I wonder what cartridges were used in those
Civil War conversions? Perhaps .44 rimfire, as the Henry was used by Union soldiers during the war and it used conventional cartriges.

Trapdoor Mike/Deputy  :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 11, 2005, 02:13:05 AM
"This post is in reference to Blondie's Bad Ass Conversion Gun in The Good The Bad And The Ugly and I really fell that this long-winded post is needed to clear up a lot of misconceptions about the Conversions strictly being done legally and not until well after the Civil War.   Clearly this reference I have come across in doing research at the library state that there were all kinds of conversions going on before the patent ran out on the bore through cylinders.

I have finally nailed down this thing so to speak(probably not yet ::)).  This is the synopsis:


Rollin White had taken out a patent dated April 3, 1855 for a revolver with the chambers bored all the way through the cylinder.  The patent was purchased by a firm (Smith and Wesson) who adapted a revolver built under it to the new rim-fire .22 caliber self exploding metallic cartridges.  This patent, despite the fact that it was not originally intended to apply to self exploding metallic cartridge revolvers, prevented, until it expired, any other firm from putting on the market a revolver that loaded from the rear of the cylinder.  Another factor that delayed the spread of cartridge hand arms was the difficulty of obtaining cartridges along the frontiers, where most of the large-caliber revolvers were used, until their manufacture and sale for use in rifles became widespread.

During the period of change, a great number of cap and ball revolvers were altered to take one of the self-exploding metallic cartridges put out for the use in rifles.  The rifle and revolver cartridges available for use in standard-size percussion-cap revolvers were: .32 short and long rim-fire, which would fit the .31 caliber Pocket revolvers; .38 short and long rim-and center fire, which would fit the .36 caliber Navy, Police and Pocket revolvers: the .44 rim-fire Henry and Ballard, .44 center-fire American and Russian which would fit the .44 caliber Old Model Army and the .44 Model of 1860 Army revolvers.

There were several methods of altering a cap and ball revolver to a cartridge arm.  The simplest way was accomplished by cutting off the part of the cylinder that contained the nipples, boring out the chambers to fit the cartridge to be used, filling up the space between the cut-down cylinder and the standing breech by inserting a plate of metal with an opening on the right side fir the insertion of cartridges, and adding a thin blade to the nose of the hammer to fire a rim-fire cartridge.  The most common of these alteration of this type were .36 caliber to a .38 rim-fire.  In the longer barreled .36 and .44 caliber models a hinged gate at the bottom and held by a spring catch was usually added to the opening for insertion of the cartridges(Blondie’s bad ass conversion), and a ejector rod was put on the right side of the barrel to shove out the empty shells.  Sometimes the old lever rammer was left in its place(Blondie’s bad ass conversion); sometimes it was removed and the hole filled up flush with the frame(smoky ruins gun from Josey Wales).  When either the .36 or .44 caliber arms were altered to take center-fire cartridges , the nose of the hammer was usually cut off flat and make to strike on a separate firing pin that was set with a rebound spring in the new breech plate that took up the space formerly occupied by the nipples of the percussion cylinder.  In some cases a new cylinder chambered for the cartridge to be used was fitted to the old frame.(Blondie's bad ass conversion)

Two types of alteration allowed for the use of a second cylinder still taking the regular cap and ball loose ammunition in case cartridges could not be obtained.  One used a special cylinder, bored through and usually counter-sunk for the rims of the cartridges, which had a cap fitting over the back end to hold the cartridges in place and was pierced with small slits at the edge of the chambers to allow the nose of the hammer to enter and explode the rim-fire cartridges.  To reload this type of alteration, it was necessary to dismount the barrel and take off the cylinder. The cap then lifted off the pins that held it to the cylinder and the empty cartridges could be pushed out by the center pin and placed by loaded ones.  As this system entailed no change in the frame of the arm itself, a regular cap and ball cylinder could be put in the place o the altered cylinder at a moment’s notice. 

The patents for the alterations of the Colt revolvers are listed on the frames of the altered arms as 1871 and 1872.  Factory alterations of Colt Army and Navy revolvers were in the hands of the services of the United States prior to November 27,1872, as an ordnance report speaks of the arms in use at that date as conversions of the cap and ball Colt revolvers.  Alterations other than factory work, done by private gunsmiths, are seldom dated and might be made any time after the cartridge that they are chambered for was put on the market.   
" [End Quote]

Below are a listing of the typical types of conversions that individual owners, dubious gunsmiths and ingenious soldiers came up with for converting their cap and ball revolvers to cartridge firing pistols.
   

Conversion #1:
This conversion is done by cutting out the nipples off the rear end of the cylinder leaving a bore through hole to breech load.  The gap is then filled with a removable breech plate.  The hammer is cut to reach cartridges through a slit in the plate.  This type of conversion allows for cylinder style to toggle back and forth from percussion-cap to rim fire metallic cartridges.

Conversion #2:
This conversion is done by cutting through just forward of the nipples and taking the cutoff piece of cylinder and removing the nipples and replacing them with pins and slotting the piece to allow for a hammer with an added head to fall in the slots hitting the pins.  The piece is reattached to the cylinder.  This type of conversion allows for cylinder style to toggle back and forth from percussion-cap to rim fire metallic cartridges.
Below is an excellent example of this conversion:
(http://www.armchairgunshow.com/images/AX-8253.jpg)
 
Conversion #3:
This conversion is done by cutting off the cylinder leaving bore through holes, filling the gap with a permanent breech plate with loading gate and rebounding firing pin.  No modification to the hammer required.  For center fire metallic cartridges.

Conversion#4:
This conversion is done by the same as above but mounting the firing pin to the hammer.  For center fire metallic cartridges.


Conversion #5 The Richards Mason Conversion
This was a factory machined process replacing the cylinder and barrel completely to accommodate for metallic cartridges and adding an ejector rod and center fire hammer.  These conversion were done legally after the Smith and Wesson patent ran out on bore through cylinders.


Conversion #6 The Thuer’s Conversion
This got around Smith and Wesson’s patent by loading the metallic cartridge from the front of the cylinder much like percussion-cap.  These took special Thuer’s ammunition and were clumsy and not very reliable.  The Cylinder has a movable rear end, which turns to allow the hammer to strike an ejection pin and throw the spent shell out the front.

From:
Haven, Charles T. (Charles Tower), 1904-

A history of the Colt revolver, and the other arms made by Colt's patent fire arms manufacturing company from 1836 to 1940, by Charles T. Haven & Frank A. Belden; with a foreword by Stephen V. Gransay.

New York: W. Morrow & Company, 1940.


I will be deleting this particular post as to where it is at presently in the thread then adding it to the Good The Bad And The Ugly post when I have finished all the details.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lin Sunderland on September 11, 2005, 02:19:10 AM
D'Ambrosia,  What a lot of research you have done. It has made really interesting reading.   Thanks.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: vik on September 11, 2005, 02:31:59 AM
nice stuff d'ambrosia

i was lent a remington 1858 new model army
and have used your info and the sites you were talking about to see how it has been altered

i enjoyed looking at the clint pale rider photos

it seems that the remington 1858 was not really that

still not sure the diff between the navy and the army - do you know?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 11, 2005, 02:48:07 AM
Thanks Lin.  :)

vik, the difference  is that the Army is .44 caliber and the Navy is .36 caliber (.38 conversion... :P ).  The Army has a rebated cylinder (A little ridge towards the back) and they Navy's cylinder is relatively smooth.

(http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/images/2569-19.jpg)
1860 Colt Army .44 Cal
Joseys Belt gun, used in the dying ain't much of a living scene...

(http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/images/2569-18.jpg)
1861 Colt Navy .36 Cal
(Joesy smoky ruins gun, minus the loading lever of course)

(http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/images/colt-1851-navy/colt-1851-navy-5.jpg)
1851 Navy Colt, Blondies Model (But his was a conversion, the one above is percussion)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 11, 2005, 02:58:25 AM
Oh, your talking Remington eh?  Don't really want to stray off topic but the same applies for Remingtor Vik.

(http://www.johnnyg.westhost.com/cwg61-nav-rem-s.JPG)
.36 Navy
Remington Navy model was a Limited issue, only about 7,000.00 made and all  in 1861

(http://hpbimg.westernpoudrenoire.com/nm%20army.jpg)
.44 Army
The basic patent for both of these was issued in 1858 but production didn't start until a few years latter.

Vitrually the same but the caliber differs...
(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/PRgun2.JPG)
Gotta throw Clint in there to keep on topic... ;)

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on September 11, 2005, 07:09:39 AM

From:
A History of the Colt Revolver
1940
By the Colt Company I believe.
(I will post up detailed credit to the reference when I have a chance to get back the library and copy the damb title page…  Duh…)

Thanks for all the great research, D'Amb! Here's the full citation for that book (I assume it's the same one), from the online catalog of The New York Public Library:

Haven, Charles T. (Charles Tower), 1904-

A history of the Colt revolver, and the other arms made by Colt's patent fire arms manufacturing company from 1836 to 1940, by Charles T. Haven & Frank A. Belden; with a foreword by Stephen V. Gransay.

New York: W. Morrow & Company, 1940.
[/list]

The contents:
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 11, 2005, 07:49:18 AM
What can I say KC...  You are simply the best!!! :-*

That's the one!

Thanks very much for looking that up.  Saves me a trip downtown! :)

By the way the book is absolutely fantastic and has some great pictures of the conversions.  It's like the old testament Colt Bible...
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on September 11, 2005, 08:07:26 AM
You're very welcome, D'Amb! By the way, your library (if it's the Columbus Metropolitan Library) has an online catalog too ... it's to be found here:

http://webpac.columbuslibrary.org/

Next time you just need a citation, you can look it up there.  :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 11, 2005, 08:17:59 AM
You're very welcome, D'Amb! By the way, your library (if it's the Columbus Metropolitan Library) has an on line catalog too ... it's to be found here:

http://webpac.columbuslibrary.org/

Next time you just need a citation, you can look it up there.  :)

(http://home.swfla.rr.com/mattreigns/instantshock.gif)

I think that's the old embarrassed smile???  ;)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: vik on September 11, 2005, 09:27:10 AM
thanks d'ambrosia - yeh remington

looking at the pics actually think its a navy
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 24, 2005, 10:15:15 PM
Here's the one everybody has been waiting on...

The Outlaw Josey Wales -- 1976

The smoky ruins gun...

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/JWgun1.JPG)

The first gun we see Josey with is an 1861 Navy Colt.  The second generation “Navy” is built on the same frame and cylinder as it’s father, the 1851 Navy Colt, but has gone to a round rifled barrel compared to the 51’s octagonal smooth bore.  We can tell Josey has a conversion due the noticeable loading gate (were you would slip in your cartridges) and lack of percussion caps on the cylinder (red circle below) and the lack of a loading lever.
(http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8532/ojw13yo.jpg) 
 
The original cap and ball caliber would be .36, however these types of conversions were .38 caliber rim fire.  There is much debate about when the first conversions started showing up.  In the book it states that conversions were possible as early as the cartridges were available.  The .38 rim fire cartridge was not made in America at that time but was produced overseas.  Overseas material was fairly commonplace in the south at the time of the Civil War.   The designation “Navy” is not because it was issued to the Naval Officers as one might think but because it had an engraving of an 1843 Navel Battle on the cylinder.  Only 38,843 Navy’s were produced from ’61 to ‘73 and was the last gun manufactured by the Colt company before Samuel Colt died in 1862 and is considered today by most black powder enthusiast the most beautifully designed Colt revolver.  It is interesting to note that while we see Josey “practicing”, after the death of his family, that the recoil on the pistol looks “real”.  That is to say they were “full” loads.  Not quarter or half loads for movie prop blanks.  The “smoky ruins” scene is the only time we see this fine looking gun.  Notice the lack of percussion caps (red circle) on the back of the cylinder giving it away as a conversion.  Also the red circle shows us the smooth cylinder that the Navy has opposed to the ’60 Army’s rebated cylinder. 
(http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6334/1861coltnavyconversionreduced4.jpg)

1861 Navy Colt Converted to fire metallic cartridges
.36 Caliber Cap and Ball .38 Caliber Rim Fire Conversion
Manufactured between 1861 and 1873
Weight: 2 pounds 11oz.
71/2 inch barrel 13 inch's overall
My opinion the most beautiful gun Colt designed .

Josey's Cannons...

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3420/ojw54wp.jpg)

In his late teens Samuel Colt worked as a seaman on a ship called the Corvo.  It was during his long hours at sea he came up with the idea of the revolving cylinder.  After observing the ships capstan in action he carved out of wood the world’s first revolving cylinder.  After returning stateside his uncle helped him finance a small manufacturing company in Patterson New Jersey.  I was there in 1836 that Colt designed and manufactured the world’s first revolvers, the Colt Patterson.  He also designed carbines that had the same principal as the pistols.  Although clearly superior technology and with interested from the U.S. military Colt never received an order of more than 100 arms at a time.  The firearms never really caught on and in 1842 Colt’s company went bankrupt and was forced to sell most all of their assets.  Colt turned his attention to underwater ordinance known back then as torpedoes but today known as mines and underwater telegraph lines and was the first to lay underwater lines in New York harbor.  By this time war was brewing in Texas against the Mexicans and General Zachary Taylor who had seen action against the Seminole Indians in Florida was dispatched there.  Under his command was Captain Samuel H. Walker, a Texas Ranger, who had also seen action in Florida.  Both Taylor and Walker had used the Colt Patterson’s in Florida along with many of their fellow soldiers.  The altercations with the Mexicans proved that the Patterson’s were reliable and provided much more firepower.  It was their suggestion to the U.S. Government to obtain as many Colt arms as possible and in 1845 the government purchased all remaining Patterson’s available through and arms dealer named John Euler's from New York pretty much depleting all of the existing Colt firearms.  On General Taylor’s order Walker was dispatched to talk to Colt about seeing what could be done about obtaining more revolvers.  Colt still held the patent, presumably not having to sell it when he went bankrupt, and suddenly with the government’s interest in his design, decided to go back into the firearms business.  In November 1846, Walker, with the authority of the Department of War and representing the Ordinance Department contracted with Colt for the manufacture of one thousand heavy revolvers with the price of $25.00 each ($28.00 with accessories)  With no model to go on, for he had given all of his personal Patterson’s away and with John Euler's sending all remaining to Texas, he sat down and started to design, with suggestions for improvement from Walker himself, the first of the Colt Dragoons, the Army Model of 1847, the Colt Whitneyville Walker.  Having lost his manufacturing plant in Patterson N.J. to bankruptcy Colt approached Eli Whitney, son of the inventor of the cotton gin, to produce the revolver in his manufacturing plant in Whittneyville Connecticut.  Whitney accepted and the rest is history.  Production was stalled in early 1847 by a distinguished army officer William A. Thornton who had the task of inspecting Colt’s progress on the revolver.  Although being a thorn in Colt’s side at the time Colt admitted later that Thornton’s due diligence was responsible for the latter success of Colt.  Thornton had many ideas and suggestions that would latter be adapted to the later model Dragoons.
Finally in the summer of ’47 the thousand ordered Army Model Colts were being delivered to the Texas Mexican theater. 
  A letter dated August 17, 1847 sent from General Taylor to Colt:
 Sir:-- Your letter of June 7th, and the accompanying box, containing a pair of your  new modeled repeating pistols, have duly reached me.  I have been much please with an examination which I have made of the latter and feel satisfied that, under all circumstances, they may be safely relied upon.  Be pleased to accept my thanks for this valuable present, and my best wishes for your success,
I am, Sir, very respectfully, Your obedient servant.
Z. Taylor  Major General United States Army


Shortly after receiving his pair of Army Model Colts, and quite pleased with them, Walker was killed in action October 9, 1847.  The “Walker” didn’t see much action in the Mexican War for there was not much fighting after November ’47, but it had established Colt back into the firearms business and though he lost money on the first contract with the “Walkers” to the government he soon opened his own manufacturing plant in Hartford Connecticut.         

(http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2968/1847coltwalkerreduced1vy.jpg)

1847 Colt Army Model Whitneyville Walker
6 shot .44 caliber percussion with 9 inch barrel weighing a whopping 4 pounds 9 oz.

Josey's shoulder holster gun...

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8412/ojw96ft.jpg)

At Colt’s new plant at Pearl Street in Hartford, with the new suggestions from Thornton, Colt started cranking out the new “Hartford” model Dragoons.  With the new and improved versions, the old Walker served it’s purpose, in providing the blueprint for all of Colt’s firearms to come.  Along with the Dragoons Colt decided to make a series of belt and pocket pistols.  Pocket and Belt revolvers with 3,4,5 and 6 inch barrels and all in .31 caliber started production in 1848 and modification in design continued until the Wells Fargo model in’53 and the last Improved model in ’55.  Later “New Model Pockets” came out in the earlier ‘60’s switching to the .36 caliber much like the ’51 Navy Colt.   The first pocket pistol was called the Baby Dragoon and it did not have a loading lever.  It required you to take off the cylinder to load it.  The model 1849, Josey’s shoulder holster gun, had a few improvements, namely the Dragoon type loading lever not requiring the removal of cylinder to load it along with many safety improvements as well.  The design on the cylinder depicted a stage coach hold up in which depicted the coach drivers holding off the miscreants with revolvers. 

(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4451/1849coltdragoonpocketreduced6y.jpg)

1849 Colt Pocket Model
.31 caliber 5 or 6 shot percussion cylinder with 5 inch barrel.

Josey's belt gun & "dying ain't much of a living" gun...
(http://img327.imageshack.us/img327/2955/ojw49qw.jpg)

In 1860 Colt began a new series of revolvers, the biggest being the New Model Army of 1860.  This gun was made on the same frame as the successful ’51 Navy but with a rebated cylinder large enough to accommodate the .44 caliber bullet that the Walkers and Dragoons before it had fired.  The grips were larger than the ’51 Navy’s to help with recoil but they fitted onto the same frame as the Navy.  This model was made in two barrel lengths 71/2 and 8 inches.  It was the most used revolver by the Union Army during the Civil War.  A total of 200,500 were produced from 1860 to 1873.

(http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/8482/1860coltarmyreduced3xp.jpg)

1860 Colt New Army Model
.44 Caliber 6 shot percussion with 71/2 or 8 inch barrel

The "Missouri Boat Ride" Rifle...

(http://img327.imageshack.us/img327/2491/ojw32xi.jpg)

The Sharps Rifles and Carbines were truly an outstanding American breech-loading development in the 1840’s.  In 1848 Christian Sharps with his patent, developed  the first true forerunner of a tremendous line of dropping block action rifles.  These rifles were originally designed to fire paper cartridges.  The early types were also intended to be muzzle loaded in the event of excessive breech jamming.  The rifle was used by both sides in the Cilvil War and were designed to fire metallic cartridges towards the end of the war and was  the gun in the hands of hunters responsible for the annihilation of the Buffalo.  It came in a  22, 32 or 34 inch barrel and .50, .52 or .54 caliber.  There were multiple alterations of this carbine but regardless of variation it was very accurate (as seen by Josey) and anyone one who had become efficient with it was quickly coined a “Sharpshooter”.  The majority of Sharps were either the ’59 Infantry or the ’63 Cavalry. 

(http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/7628/1863sharpsreduced1at.jpg)

1863 Sharps Cavalry Carbine
.54 Caliber (the pic above is a 22 inch barrel, Josey has the longer version)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 24, 2005, 11:02:57 PM
(Josey Wales Contuinued from page 12)

The "cause I ain't got nothing better else to do" gun...
(http://img327.imageshack.us/img327/1999/ojw23ck.jpg)
Note:  Above Josey has a ten barreled Gatling which is historicly incorrect for the period, the ten barreled didn't come out until the 1870's

http://www.civilwarhome.com/gatlinggun.htm

Born September 12, 1818 in Hertford Count, North Carolina, Richard Gatling was the son of planter and inventor, Jordan Gatling, who held two patents of his own. Besides the Gatling gun, Richard Gatling also patented a seed-sowing rice planter in 1839 that was later adapted into a successful wheat drill.

In 1861 Dr. Gatling lived near a railroad depot in Indianapolis. He witnessed the young volunteers being shipped out to fight in the Civil War. He also saw the bodies of the dead being brought back for burial. On one occasion he noticed that of the 19 corpses shipped home only three had been hit by bullets. There were far less soldiers killed in battle than those who died from sickness.  Later that same year Dr. Gatling patented the Gatling Gun, a six barreled, hand-driven, crank-operated machine gun with reliable loading and fireing up to 600 rounds a minute, unheard of in those days.

The 1862 version of the gatling gun had reloadable steel chambers and used percussion caps. It was prone to occasional jamming. In 1867, Gatling redesigned the Gatling gun again to use metallic cartridges - this version was bought and used by the United States Army.

In 1870, Richard Gatling and his family moved to Hartford, Connecticut, home of the Colt Armory where the Gatling gun was being manufactured and moved next door to the Colt’s.

In 1877 Dr. Gatling wrote a letter to Lizzie Jarvis, a niece of the late Col. Colt, and expressed his reasons for designing his gun. "It occurred to me that if I could invent a machine - a gun - which could by its rapidity of fire, enable one man to do as much battle duty as a hundred, that it would, to a large extent supersede the necessity of large armies, and consequently, exposure to battle and disease [would] be greatly diminished.".



Referecnces and Sources:

Haven, Charles T. (Charles Tower), 1904-

A history of the Colt revolver, and the other arms made by Colt's patent fire arms manufacturing company from 1836 to 1940, by Charles T. Haven & Frank A. Belden; with a foreword by Stephen V. Gransay.

New York: W. Morrow & Company, 1940.

Serven, James E.
Colt Firearms from 1836
The Stackple Compay, 1954

Gluckman, Arcadi
United States Muskets and Rifles
Otto Ulbrich Co. Inc.
Buffalo NY: 1948

WHB Smith & Joseph E. Smith
The Book of Rifles
The Stackpole Company: 1948
The Book of Rifles

I would also like to give a special thanks to  KC and Matt for all of their help in posting up the many images needed to make this post possible.  Without them I would have never been able to do it up right...Thank You!








Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Deputy on September 25, 2005, 06:26:05 AM
Fantastic job D'Ambrosia!!!!

Some interesting side notes:
On the 1847 Walker Colt. Notice the loading lever under the barrel? It has nothing to keep it in the "up" position as the later Colts have. The loading lever was notorious for dropping down at the most inconvenient time. If it dropped down far enough, it could prevent the cylinder from turning.

The 1860 Colt Army was a very nice weapon. Many Confederate troops didn't hesitate to scrounge them up off corpses on the battlefield. Same for the Remington New Model revolvers.

The grip on the 1860 Army offers a much better feel for larger hands than the Navy Models. The Navy Model grips are what were used on the Colt Single Action Army revolvers.

On the Sharps...I question the part about them using a metallic cartridge towards the end of the war. As far as I've been able to find out, the Sharps used a .52 caliber miniball linen cartridge throughout the war. AFTER the war many Sharps rifles and carbines were converted to metallic cartridges.

http://www.hackman-adams.com/guns/sharps.htm

Dep
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lin Sunderland on September 27, 2005, 10:57:15 AM
Great job D'Ambrosia.    I have said this before, I never really had an interest in guns until I started reading your posts and now I find I am looking forward to the next one.   You could do with publishing all this under the title Gun's from the movies of Clint Eastwood. O0
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: vik on September 27, 2005, 12:27:44 PM
great d,ambrosia

the pocket colt did it come with the patterns on it?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 27, 2005, 04:01:07 PM
Thanks everbody!  8)

Vik, by patterns I'm assuming you mean engraving on the cylinder?

Yeah, the 1849 Pocket had a depiction of a stage coach hold up on it.

Is that what you meant?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: vik on September 27, 2005, 09:48:03 PM
yes thanks

i thought perhaps engravings were commissioned hence being an individual item rather than like mass produced

nice engraving for such a small gun
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Schofield Kid on October 10, 2005, 05:02:44 AM
Great job D'Ambrosia.    I have said this before, I never really had an interest in guns until I started reading your posts and now I find I am looking forward to the next one.

I agree,I've never taken much notice of this thread before as I'm not much into the subject of guns,but going through this thread over the last couple of days has been great reading.A lot was probably over my head with all the technical aspects of some of the guns but some of the posts are sensational with all the history of the particular guns.
Great Job D'Amb. O0 O0 O0
You could do with publishing all this under the title Gun's from the movies of Clint Eastwood. O0

I'd buy that book. 8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on October 12, 2005, 04:54:19 AM
The Enforcer 1976

(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/537/lawsrocket11wy.png)

In addition to his standard .44 Magnum Harry wields a LAWS Rocket at the end of the film to dispatch the main baddie Bobby Maxwell.


(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4587/lawsrocket28lr.png)

M-72 Light Anti-tank Weapon (LAW)

Prior to the fielding of the AT-4 the M-72 Light Anti-tank Weapon (LAW) was the Army's primary shoulder-fired, man-portable, light anti-tank rocket. The M72 66mm LAW (Light Anti-armor Weapon) was developed in the 1960s. It was a revolutionary idea: a pre-packaged rocket which could be fired and the launcher then thrown away. Like the RPG-7, the M72 is capable of penetrating a foot of armor, but its effective range is only 170 to 220 meters. Manufactured by Talley Industries in the U.S. and under license in Norway, it not only became a NATO standard but was copied and produced in Czechoslovakia and Russia (as the RPG-18 and RPG-26). Early versions were frequently inaccurate, corrected by an improved sight and a more powerful rocket motor.


The M72-series LAW is a lightweight, self-contained, antiarmor weapon consisting of a rocket packed in a launcher. It is man-portable, may be fired from either shoulder, and is issued as a round of ammunition. It requires little from the user--only a visual inspection and some operator maintenance. The launcher, which consists of two tubes, one inside the other, serves as a watertight packing container for the rocket and houses a percussion-type firing mechanism that activates the rocket.
Outer Tube. The trigger housing assembly (which contains the trigger assembly) is on the upper surface of the outer tube. So are the trigger arming handle, front and rear sight assemblies, and the launcher's rear cover.
Inner Tube. The inner tube telescopes outward toward the rear, guided by a channel assembly that rides in an alignment slot in the outer tube's trigger housing assembly. The channel assembly also houses the firing pin rod assembly, which includes a detent lever assembly. The detent lever assembly moves under the trigger assembly in the outer tube, locking the inner tube in the extended position and cocking the weapon. All this must occur before the weapon can be fired.
Rocket. The rocket is a percussion-ignited, fin-stabilized, fixed munition. It is attached by the igniter to the inside of the launcher. The rocket consists of a 66-mm HEAT warhead, a point-initiating, base-detonating fuze, and a rocket motor. Six spring-loaded fins are attached to the rear of the rocket motor. These fins are folded forward along the motor when the rocket is in the launcher. When ignited, the propellant in the rocket motor burns completely, producing gasses about 1,400F(760C). The gas pressure pushes the rocket toward the target and exits to the rear of the launcher as the backblast.
The M72-series LAW is issued as a round of ammunition. It contains a nonadjustable propelling charge and a rocket. Every M72-series LAW has an integral high-explosive antitank (HEAT) warhead. The warhead is in the rocket's head (or body) section. The fuze and booster are in the rocket's closure section. The propellant, its igniter, and the fin assembly are in the rocket's motor. No inert versions are available. Appendix B provides information about appropriate gunnery training devices and ammunition. Although the M72-series LAW is mainly used as an antiarmor weapon, it may be used with limited success against secondary targets such as gun emplacements, pillboxes, buildings, or light vehicles.

2-2. TECHNICAL DATA
The following data apply to the M72A2 and M72A3 LAWs:

a. Launcher.
-Length (Extended) ........ Less than 1 meter (34.67 inches)
-Length (Closed) .......... 0.67 meters (24.8 inches)
-Weight (Complete M72A2) .. 2.3 kg (5.1 pounds)
-Weight (Complete M72A3) .. 2.5 kg (5.5 pounds)
-Firing Mechanism ......... Percussion
-Front Sight .............. Reticle graduated in 25-meter range increments
-Rear Sight..... Peep sight adjusts automatically to temperature change
b. Rocket.
-Caliber .................. 66 mm
-Length ................... 50.8 cm (20 inches)
-Weight.................... 1.8 kg (2.2 pounds)
-Muzzle Velocity........... 144.8 mps (475 fps)
-Minimum Range (Combat).... 10 meters (33 feet)
-Minimum Arming Range...... 10 meters (33 feet)
-Maximum Range............. 1,000 meters (3,300 feet)

Maximum Effective Ranges
-Stationary Target ...... 200 meters (660 feet)
-Moving Target........... 165 meters (541 feet)
(Beyond these ranges, there is less than a fifty percent chance of hitting the target.)

(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/23250005.gif)

(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/23250006.gif)


(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4850/lawsrocket36sn.png)

You can see the final results of using the weapon.

(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9490/lawsrocket40ku.png)

Information provided from:

The Military Analysis Network (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m72.htm) Website

 



Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Deputy on October 12, 2005, 08:31:36 AM
Most Viet Nam vets will give you a VERY vocal opinion of the LAW and what it's good for. Most of them failed to fire at critical moments. They are very sensitive to moisture (really great in a country with monsoon rains) and the sights are less than useless. Thankfully, they have been replaced in our inventory by more effective and reliable weapons. BTW...the LAW was designed to be a "throwaway" weapon. Like  Bic lighter. Only problem was the Viet Cong scrounged the empty tubes and used them to fire mortar rounds out of them. So after you used a LAW, you had to smash it against tree or other soilid object to bend the tube.

Dep
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on October 12, 2005, 05:35:12 PM
The Gauntlet 1977

(http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/6223/model6617ik.png)

Shockley carries a Smith and Wesson Model 66 .357 Magnum

Caliber: .357 Magnum®/.38 S&W Special +P
Capacity: 6 Rounds
Barrel Length: 2-1/2"
Front Sight: Red Ramp
Rear Sight: Adjustable Black
Frame: Medium
Finish: Satin Stainless
Overall length: 7-1/2"
Material: Stainless Steel
Weight Empty: 32 ounces
Year first produced: 1971

(http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/3277/model6624uw.png)

Some interesting reading about the 66 below:

"The period around 1970 was spectacular in terms of change in U.S. police handguns. The changes hit first among service revolvers. Circa 1969, Ruger introduced the Security-Six revolver, and the two-party politics of Colt and S&W had suddenly become a three-lane race, with the new dark horse coming up fast. Built with the latest manufacturing principles and design, Ruger's .38/.357 fit holsters for K-frame Smiths and had the durability of the bigger Magnums.

Desperate to regain its market dominance over S&W, Colt cashiered its labor-intensive I-frame revolvers (keeping the prestigious Python) and introduced the new Mark III, which used sintered metal technology in the action parts. Most avoided this new Colt as inferior. Ruger quickly swept into the No. 2 spot and was soon biting the backside of market leader S&W.

That had become a vulnerable butt to chomp. The '70s saw court decisions such as Popow vs. Margate, which mandated more realistic training. In 1970, four young California Highway Patrol officers were slaughtered by two hard-core felons in a gunfight in Newhall. One factor unearthed by the subsequent investigation was most were carrying Magnum ammo, but trained with light .38 loads and couldn't deliver hits when it counted. Cops with .357s started doing all their training with Magnum loads--and doing it faster.

When S&W introduced the first stainless steel revolver in 1965--the Model 60 variation of the five-shot snub-nose Chief Special .38--it was a huge success. S&W followed with service revolvers culminating with the Model 66, a stainless version of the Combat Magnum. The 66 became the new status gun in American law enforcement.

About the same time, Remington introduced what would become the .357 Magnum police load, a 125-grain semi-jacketed hollowpoint at a blistering 1,400 feet per second. It soon proved to, as some Texas cops said, "Drop the bad guy like a lightning bolt." Federal upped the ante with a similar bullet at 1,450 fps. Winchester followed suit, and Remington kept up with them. Departments which got into a lot of shootings with this round--Indianapolis PD, the Kentucky State Police, and others--soon developed awesome records of one-shot stops, which Evan Marshall would later quantify as being in the 90th percentile of likelihood.

The three trends crashed together. Some of these hot Magnum rounds delivered more than 40,000 psi pressure and battered guns. They were being fired very rapidly--all the more so since speedloaders were becoming the norm. The guns they were most often used in were Smith Model 66s--K-frame guns originally sized for low-pressure .38 Special rounds, now running at more than double that pressure, and made of stainless alloys that heated up and expanded more rapidly than chrome molybdenum steel.

The 66s' parts expanded, locked up, and jammed the revolvers. S&W tried fix after fix. Meanwhile, the durable Ruger Security Six absorbed heat better with a slightly larger cylinder and shot merrily along. Departments began trading Smith 66s for Rugers in epic proportions. S&W eventually fixed the 66's problem with a gas ring swaged into the cylinder, but in the meantime introduced the slightly larger L-frame Models 686 (stainless) and 586 (chrome moly)."

Guns Magazine January 2005 by Massad Ayoob

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: onaka1 on November 14, 2005, 12:55:08 AM
Great topic.
This is the reason I came to this site.

If I wanted to buy a revolver such as the ones from FFD or GBU is that possible.

I understand Uberti is a company making replicas of these.  Are the models that you posted way earlier some of the same that are being remade?

Also, is it possible to figure out what revolvers Tuco makes his out of when he gets in from the desert??

Is the Single action Peacemaker the same as the "Cattlemen" revolver that A. Uberti is producing?
I enjoy target shooting, but never really learned specific models.

Also, for gun people would you recommend getting a .45 caliber, .44, or .357 for target shooting and/or hunting?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: tostada on December 09, 2005, 09:03:23 AM
The Enforcer 1976

(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/537/lawsrocket11wy.png)

In addition to his standard .44 Magnum Harry wields a LAWS Rocket at the end of the film to dispatch the main baddie Bobby Maxwell.


(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4587/lawsrocket28lr.png)

M-72 Light Anti-tank Weapon (LAW)

Prior to the fielding of the AT-4 the M-72 Light Anti-tank Weapon (LAW) was the Army's primary shoulder-fired, man-portable, light anti-tank rocket. The M72 66mm LAW (Light Anti-armor Weapon) was developed in the 1960s. It was a revolutionary idea: a pre-packaged rocket which could be fired and the launcher then thrown away. Like the RPG-7, the M72 is capable of penetrating a foot of armor, but its effective range is only 170 to 220 meters. Manufactured by Talley Industries in the U.S. and under license in Norway, it not only became a NATO standard but was copied and produced in Czechoslovakia and Russia (as the RPG-18 and RPG-26). Early versions were frequently inaccurate, corrected by an improved sight and a more powerful rocket motor.


The M72-series LAW is a lightweight, self-contained, antiarmor weapon consisting of a rocket packed in a launcher. It is man-portable, may be fired from either shoulder, and is issued as a round of ammunition. It requires little from the user--only a visual inspection and some operator maintenance. The launcher, which consists of two tubes, one inside the other, serves as a watertight packing container for the rocket and houses a percussion-type firing mechanism that activates the rocket.
Outer Tube. The trigger housing assembly (which contains the trigger assembly) is on the upper surface of the outer tube. So are the trigger arming handle, front and rear sight assemblies, and the launcher's rear cover.
Inner Tube. The inner tube telescopes outward toward the rear, guided by a channel assembly that rides in an alignment slot in the outer tube's trigger housing assembly. The channel assembly also houses the firing pin rod assembly, which includes a detent lever assembly. The detent lever assembly moves under the trigger assembly in the outer tube, locking the inner tube in the extended position and cocking the weapon. All this must occur before the weapon can be fired.
Rocket. The rocket is a percussion-ignited, fin-stabilized, fixed munition. It is attached by the igniter to the inside of the launcher. The rocket consists of a 66-mm HEAT warhead, a point-initiating, base-detonating fuze, and a rocket motor. Six spring-loaded fins are attached to the rear of the rocket motor. These fins are folded forward along the motor when the rocket is in the launcher. When ignited, the propellant in the rocket motor burns completely, producing gasses about 1,400F(760C). The gas pressure pushes the rocket toward the target and exits to the rear of the launcher as the backblast.
The M72-series LAW is issued as a round of ammunition. It contains a nonadjustable propelling charge and a rocket. Every M72-series LAW has an integral high-explosive antitank (HEAT) warhead. The warhead is in the rocket's head (or body) section. The fuze and booster are in the rocket's closure section. The propellant, its igniter, and the fin assembly are in the rocket's motor. No inert versions are available. Appendix B provides information about appropriate gunnery training devices and ammunition. Although the M72-series LAW is mainly used as an antiarmor weapon, it may be used with limited success against secondary targets such as gun emplacements, pillboxes, buildings, or light vehicles.

2-2. TECHNICAL DATA
The following data apply to the M72A2 and M72A3 LAWs:

a. Launcher.
-Length (Extended) ........ Less than 1 meter (34.67 inches)
-Length (Closed) .......... 0.67 meters (24.8 inches)
-Weight (Complete M72A2) .. 2.3 kg (5.1 pounds)
-Weight (Complete M72A3) .. 2.5 kg (5.5 pounds)
-Firing Mechanism ......... Percussion
-Front Sight .............. Reticle graduated in 25-meter range increments
-Rear Sight..... Peep sight adjusts automatically to temperature change
b. Rocket.
-Caliber .................. 66 mm
-Length ................... 50.8 cm (20 inches)
-Weight.................... 1.8 kg (2.2 pounds)
-Muzzle Velocity........... 144.8 mps (475 fps)
-Minimum Range (Combat).... 10 meters (33 feet)
-Minimum Arming Range...... 10 meters (33 feet)
-Maximum Range............. 1,000 meters (3,300 feet)

Maximum Effective Ranges
-Stationary Target ...... 200 meters (660 feet)
-Moving Target........... 165 meters (541 feet)
(Beyond these ranges, there is less than a fifty percent chance of hitting the target.)

(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/23250005.gif)

(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/23250006.gif)


(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4850/lawsrocket36sn.png)

You can see the final results of using the weapon.

(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9490/lawsrocket40ku.png)

Information provided from:

The Military Analysis Network (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m72.htm) Website

 




The Enforcer was a good movie and i like that the LAWS Rocket he has very cool part of the movie.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: tostada on December 09, 2005, 09:05:46 AM
(Josey Wales Contuinued from page 12)

The "cause I ain't got nothing better else to do" gun...
(http://img327.imageshack.us/img327/1999/ojw23ck.jpg)
Note:  Above Josey has a ten barreled Gatling which is historicly incorrect for the period, the ten barreled didn't come out until the 1870's

http://www.civilwarhome.com/gatlinggun.htm

Born September 12, 1818 in Hertford Count, North Carolina, Richard Gatling was the son of planter and inventor, Jordan Gatling, who held two patents of his own. Besides the Gatling gun, Richard Gatling also patented a seed-sowing rice planter in 1839 that was later adapted into a successful wheat drill.

In 1861 Dr. Gatling lived near a railroad depot in Indianapolis. He witnessed the young volunteers being shipped out to fight in the Civil War. He also saw the bodies of the dead being brought back for burial. On one occasion he noticed that of the 19 corpses shipped home only three had been hit by bullets. There were far less soldiers killed in battle than those who died from sickness.  Later that same year Dr. Gatling patented the Gatling Gun, a six barreled, hand-driven, crank-operated machine gun with reliable loading and fireing up to 600 rounds a minute, unheard of in those days.

The 1862 version of the gatling gun had reloadable steel chambers and used percussion caps. It was prone to occasional jamming. In 1867, Gatling redesigned the Gatling gun again to use metallic cartridges - this version was bought and used by the United States Army.

In 1870, Richard Gatling and his family moved to Hartford, Connecticut, home of the Colt Armory where the Gatling gun was being manufactured and moved next door to the Colt’s.

In 1877 Dr. Gatling wrote a letter to Lizzie Jarvis, a niece of the late Col. Colt, and expressed his reasons for designing his gun. "It occurred to me that if I could invent a machine - a gun - which could by its rapidity of fire, enable one man to do as much battle duty as a hundred, that it would, to a large extent supersede the necessity of large armies, and consequently, exposure to battle and disease [would] be greatly diminished.".



Referecnces and Sources:

Haven, Charles T. (Charles Tower), 1904-

A history of the Colt revolver, and the other arms made by Colt's patent fire arms manufacturing company from 1836 to 1940, by Charles T. Haven & Frank A. Belden; with a foreword by Stephen V. Gransay.

New York: W. Morrow & Company, 1940.

Serven, James E.
Colt Firearms from 1836
The Stackple Compay, 1954

Gluckman, Arcadi
United States Muskets and Rifles
Otto Ulbrich Co. Inc.
Buffalo NY: 1948

WHB Smith & Joseph E. Smith
The Book of Rifles
The Stackpole Company: 1948
The Book of Rifles

I would also like to give a special thanks to  KC and Matt for all of their help in posting up the many images needed to make this post possible.  Without them I would have never been able to do it up right...Thank You!









That is something i would want to have and want to do in my spare time. ;D
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: harley on December 13, 2005, 04:41:39 AM
1860 henry repeater, not a sharps in the good/bad/ugly. ;). However Clint did use a Sharps in Josey Wales.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on December 13, 2005, 05:15:33 PM
Well harley if you want to get technical Blondie's rifle during most of the movie is an 1866 Winchester cut down to look like a Henry.  Angel Eyes rifle that Blondie acquires at the end of the film looks like it could be a Sharps with an octagonal barrel.

You can read more about the "cut down" Winchester over on the  Sergio Leone Web Board (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1680.30)...

(http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/1499/1591618pe.jpg)

Above the first two guns are '60 Henry's and the last one is a '66 Winchester...

(http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/9021/ndvd1645jy.png)
The loading gate on the "cut down" Winchester.

(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/1089/ndvd1758rj.png)
The "cut down" strap that at one time attached the wooden fore stock to the barrel.

(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/4955/ndvd1737ll.png)
The front strap that attaches the barrel to the magazine on the Winchester.  No such strap on the Henry.

(http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/6897/ndvd1888iv.png)

Here is a shot of Angel Eye's rifle that Blondie acquires at the end of the movie.  Looks like a Sharps with an octagonal barrel to me...
(http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/1664/ndvd1896tx.png)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: hitmbig on January 18, 2006, 12:57:16 AM
O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0


 ^^^^^^^^ Great Job. I don't know about  ten barrels but a Model 29 S&W .44 magnum would do me just fine.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Conan on March 19, 2006, 10:57:41 AM
  Cool photos guys.  I really like that still of Harry with a LAW  O0
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: palooka on March 21, 2006, 09:07:26 AM
I thought I would show of the latest addition to my collection.

This is the screen used gun, fired on the set of The Outlaw Josey Wales by the big man himself. It has taken me years to find such a significant piece and as you will note by the screen cap below it matches up scratch for scratch.

For those of you on here technically minded it had been converted to fire .38 for filming and is now de-activated.

I had no idea how big and heavy these things were and Clint spent all day firing them.

(http://propstore.com/img/products/593/clintgun1a.jpg)

(http://propstore.com/img/products/593/clintgun2.jpg)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lilly on March 21, 2006, 03:52:27 PM
 :o Wow, super cool palooka! O0

Congratulations on acquiring such a gem, and thanks for sharing it with us. 8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lin Sunderland on March 21, 2006, 05:14:19 PM
Hey Palooka, what a find.   Congratulations.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on March 22, 2006, 08:51:12 PM
What a fantastic addition to any collection!  It is indeed the exact gun.  I am very jealous.  May I ask how you aquired it?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Richard Earl on March 22, 2006, 08:59:02 PM
That is an absolute amazing piece to own.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: palooka on March 23, 2006, 02:10:06 AM
Thanks guys, yes I am very proud of it and I continue to look for other Eastwood props and costumes.

As to where I got it? It's my job. I work at www.propstore.com and thats what we do - we sell props and costumes that have been used in movies. Its a great job and I still can't believe I get to do my hobby for a living.

Clint is my favourite but his items are hard to find as he generally keeps his costumes and props. I collect from other films too but try and keep my collection small.

Here is another Eastwood gun from my collection. The Richards double barreled shot gun from the final scenes of Unforgiven. Its only the rubber version, and has a trigger and other bits broken off, but still a cool prop!

(http://www.propstore.com/images/products/593/unforgiven_rifle1.jpg)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on March 23, 2006, 08:36:37 AM
Wow ... I am jealous of that one!

Any chance you'll pick up the Starr revolver he shot at the tin can with? I'll come visit!  :D
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Canadian Lady on March 23, 2006, 09:50:33 PM
 ::)WOW! Both are amazing items to have!! Congrats!!!! O0
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Blondie's Gal on March 24, 2006, 11:59:27 AM
Wow Palooka! You lucky son of a gun. ;) I'm so envious!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: -satu- on March 29, 2006, 01:18:52 PM
Wow, Palooka! Congratulations!  O0

You seem to have a very interesting job.  8) O0
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Blondie's Gal on April 03, 2006, 11:29:12 AM
Fistful Of Dollars-1964 and For A Few Dollars More-1965

The six shooter that Joe carries in Fistful of Dollars is an 1873 Colt SAA- Peacemaker.  The image below does not depict the famous walnut silverplated snake handled grips that Yates, Joe, Manco and Blondie wield in Rawhide, FFD, FFDM and GBU (which, infact, the same gun that was used in Rawhide is  the same gun used in  FFD and FFDM by Joe and Manco)   If I'm real lucky KC might post up the little story behind Rowdy comming across that particular firearm...:)  8)

I believe that Joe (Fistful of dollars) [/b] and Manco (For a Few Dollars More) had the 5 1/2 inch barrel:
1873 SAA Colt Peacemaker.  .45 cal with a 5 1/2 inch barrel:

(http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/cim_1873colt_mod_P_big.jpg)


The beautiful deep walnut pure silver inlet rattlesnake grips that Yates, Joe, Manco and Blondie acquire and wear throughout...
(http://www.spaghettiwesternreplicas.com/images/gripprod.jpg)

Manco uses the same exact gun in For A Few Dollars More (Or does he ;) ) Manco could, infact, have an '77 ...   so I'll just move on to The Good The Bad  and the Ugly...
Damn do I want one of those. (!!)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on April 18, 2006, 09:15:39 PM
Bronco Billy

Colt .45

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2086/bbguns11tc.jpg)


The Colt Single Action Army (SAA) was introduced in 1873 and quickly became the most popular and definitive handgun on the American Frontier and of the Old West. 

It’s rise to glory was mainly due to the fact that it was the first mass produced large caliber metallic cartridge firing revolver replacing the cumbersome black powder cap and ball pistols.   The U.S. Ordinance Department's test board concluded: "the Colt revolver superior in most respects, and much better adapted to the wants of the Army than the Smith & Wesson." The U.S. government procured over 37,000 Colt SAA's over the next 19 years.

Barrel lengths of 4 3/4 inches, 5 1/2 inches and 7 1/2 inches have always been the most popular, but several others have been produced over the years.  Current production is supplied with 4 3/4 inch and 5 1/2 inch barrels. 7 1/2 inch barrels are available by special order.

The calibers currently offered are .45 Colt, .44-40 WCF, and .357 Magnum/.38 Special. In the past many other cartridges have been offered.  Altogether, some 30 different SAA calibers appear in Colt records.

Engraved SAA's are fairly common. Many unique SAA's have been produced.  Perhaps the most famous being General George Patton’s engraved SAA with nickel finish and ivory grips special ordered in 1916 and carried throughout WWII. 

Often times trick shot artists will use a cartridge with a “birdshot” load instead of a lead bullet to pull off those brazen stunts involving human subjects or shooting items in mid-air.  The “shot” spreads out quickly and over a large area and gives the shooter more flexibility with his aim if, for instance, he were blindfolded.

(http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8968/bbguns42ld.jpg)

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2603/bbguns35dq.jpg)

Thanks to Chuck Hawks for allowing me to "reprint" a lot of the information above.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/colt_saa_syn.htm


Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Phaedros on April 25, 2006, 01:41:44 AM
G’day,

I am a newby here and from Australia.

First up I would like to sincerely thank the major contributors to this forum for their technical expertise, and always couched in ‘in context’ so it is so readable.  Equally the moderation on this forum has been really great!  Well controlled, very informatively involved, and very pro-active for forum users!

I was dredging the web looking for information on black powder weapons and the quality of information I have found here leaves ‘technical’ forums for dead!

There is a couple of questions if I may?

The first is probably going to be seen as ‘off topic’ but really is it?

In FFDM Mortimer and (whatever you think he should be called) did exchange weapons and views on those.  That gives a ‘weak’ lead in to what Moritmer had hanging on the side of his horse - a veritable armoury in a quick deployment roll.  I would dearly love to know what those weapons were.  Any one game enough to take it on – or have they been covered elsewhere?

Second.  I am looking for non firing replicas of the M1860 Army and the Walker Colt (not the Patterson or any of the Dragoons) to complete a small collection I am assembling.  They do not have to be great, but not shoddy either!

Problem is finding someone to export to Oz.  We have been disarmed over here but non fireable replicas are still legal in most States.  Any one got any clues or leads I could follow?

Aye

Phaedros
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lorraine on May 02, 2006, 12:46:06 AM
Well, I saw the 44 magnum.  It was in a nice case.  Clint said
that it would probably go to Kyle when he (Clint) didn't need it anymore, and Kyly would probably sell it and buy dope with it.  Those were Clint's words, not mine.  Now, I don't know
Kyle as a grown man, but, I imagine he must be a nice man.
If he needed pot money and his dad wouldn't help him out
or he couldn't earn his own money, and if he was in pain and needed to smoke pot for pain, then, I guess it would be
well spent money.

My ex-husband asked Clint to get him a gun like he had.
Clint got the gun, and then my ex-husband didn't want
to pay for it.  I guess because he was a Deputy Sheriff,
that it should have been free.  Well, Clint said to hell with
that and took the gun back.   

Clint was a hard ass about free-loaders and pot.
I hope age has mellowed him about the pot. 
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: palooka on May 02, 2006, 04:39:54 AM
Hi Lorraine, are those your words or a quote?

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: mifune on May 13, 2006, 12:03:08 AM
hi,
please forgive me my poor English.
I enjoy this site every day from Japan.
I've been a great fun of Clint for 20years and I have a lot of movie props.
this is one of them. the prop starr gun that was used by Mr.Clint eastwood in Unforgiven.

Link (http://photos.yahoo.co.jp/ph/magnumforce206/vwp?.dir=/f9d2&.src=ph&.dnm=282c.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.co.jp/ph/magnumforce206/lst%3f%26.dir=/f9d2%26.src=ph%26.view=t)

can you see it? how do you feel?
If I could understand how to insert the photo....

(http://proxy.f3.ymdb.yahoofs.jp/users/44656f96_e94a/bc/f9d2/__sr_/282c.jpg?BC9XI3EB8.H19d7W) (http://photos.yahoo.co.jp/ph/magnumforce206/vwp?.dir=/f9d2&.dnm=282c.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on May 13, 2006, 07:30:54 AM
Hi, Mifune, and welcome to the Board! I edited your post to insert the photo and also to shorten the link to the page where the photo is displayed.

To insert pictures here, just click this button above the message window: (http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/Themes/yabbse/images/bbc/img.gif)

Then insert the URL address  (or image location) of the picture itself (find it by right clicking on the picture; Firefox lets you copy it directly) between the [ img] and the [/img].


can you see it? how do you feel?

I feel envious! That is a beautiful thing to own!  8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lilly on May 13, 2006, 04:20:53 PM
 :) Welcome, mifune.

That's great!  Thanks for showing it to us. O0

Is that the gun Munny used to shoot at the tin can, before giving up and blasting it with the shotgun?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on May 13, 2006, 05:22:04 PM
Is that the gun Munny used to shoot at the tin can, before giving up and blasting it with the shotgun?

I don't know if this particular prop is that gun; they probably used at least two, one to fire in the "target practice" scene and a rubber one for Little Bill to take from Munny and pistol-whip him with. But the old revolver that Munny takes out of a trunk, just after removing and contemplating the portrait of the late, sainted Claudia, is indeed a Starr,  like the one in the picture, and that and the shotgun are Munny's two weapons on the bounty hunting expedition.

Perhaps Mifune will stop by again and tell us more!  8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lilly on May 13, 2006, 05:29:43 PM
Thanks for those details, KC. O0
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: mifune on May 13, 2006, 06:52:17 PM
thanks! KC&Lilly
I bought the prop about 10 years ago.
It is made of rubber.
COA of this prop said that this prop was used in the saloon scene.it is a rubber one for Little Bill to take from Munny and pistol-whip him with.
 
Link (http://photos.yahoo.co.jp/ph/magnumforce206/vwp?.dir=/f9d2&.src=ph&.dnm=112b.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.co.jp/ph/magnumforce206/lst%3f%26.dir=/f9d2%26.src=ph%26.view=t)

(http://proxy.f3.ymdb.yahoofs.jp/users/44656f96_e94a/bc/f9d2/__sr_/112b.jpg?BCZqT3EBkeqdLQG0) (http://photos.yahoo.co.jp/ph/magnumforce206/vwp?.dir=/f9d2&.dnm=112b.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on May 13, 2006, 08:01:40 PM
Thanks, Mifune! What a wonderful piece of film history to own!  8)

I edited your post again to make a shorter "titled" link and to put in the picture, with a link to a larger version of it.  :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: mifune on May 13, 2006, 10:03:32 PM
thanks again KC!
please forgive me not only my poor English but also my poor PC skill..... :D
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lilly on May 14, 2006, 07:40:15 AM
Wow that's really cool, mifune! O0

Don't worry about your English - it's good enough for me!  It's always good to hear from members in different countries, especially with nice info like you have. 8)

As you are from Japan, you must be looking forward to the two new Eastwood movies, especially Red Sun, Black Sand.  Good to have another Japanese member on the board. O0
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: palooka on May 16, 2006, 02:13:33 AM
Nice one Mifune!  :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on August 06, 2006, 01:23:39 AM
Firefox 1982  The most devastating killing machine ever built...his job...steal it!

It’s interesting that in this movie each time Clint wields a weapon it seems to trigger his delusional post-traumatic stress disorder.

(http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/400/firefoxgun49uf.jpg)



The first weapon we see Gant at the beginning of the movie is obviously a shotgun.  I recruited some help from my friends over at Shotgun World in helping me identify this particular gun.  The general consensus over there is that it is a Remington 870, old combat version with extended magazine tube for a bayonet.

(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1269/firefoxgun35sx.jpg)
The Remington 870 shotgun has been around for almost half a century, and has become the best-selling shotgun of any type in history, with over seven million made.  The Remington 870 was the fourth major design in a successive line of Remington pump shotguns. John Pedersen designed the fragile Model 10 (later the improved model 29). Working with John Browning, Pedersen also helped design the Model 17 which was adopted by Ithaca as the Ithaca 37 and also served as the basis for the Remington 31. The Model 31 was an excellent shotgun, but struggled for sales in the shadow of the Winchester Model 12. Remington sought to correct that by introducing a modern, streamlined, rugged, reliable, and relatively inexpensive shotgun, the 870 Wingmaster in 1950.
Sales of the Remington 870 have been steady. They reached 2 million guns by 1973 (ten times the number of Model 31 shotguns it replaced). By 1996, spurred by the basic "Express" model, sales topped seven million guns.
(http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/852/firefoxgun3a5vt.jpg)
(http://www.hunt101.com/img/408254.jpg)
Specifications
·   Caliber: 12, 16, 20, 28, and .410 gauge
·   Operation: Pump-action
·   Magazine capacity: 3-6 shells, depending on model and shell length.
·   Weight: 3–3.5 kg




Next we see Gant getting clean with the famous Walther PP(Polizei Pistole).
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5573/firefoxgun12im.jpg)
 It’s shorter cousin, the PPK(Polizei Pistole Kurz), is the gun James Bond skepicly takes by order of M in the novel Casino Royal (in the Bond movies he aquries it in Dr. No) because of his Bretta .25 jamming all the time in curcial situations.  What the Bond movies did for the Walther is almost eqviaent to what Dirty Harry did for the .44 Magnum.  The difference in the PP and the PPK is only in size and magizine capasity(the PPK holding one less bullet)
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/816/firefoxgun24un.jpg)
Intoduced in 1929 (’31 for the PPK) the Walther PP was the first sucessful double action automatic, meaning one does not have to cock the pistol to fire it, you can simply pull the trigger.  It quickly became extermly pouplur with the German Military, or as I call them, Nazi’s, due to it’s extream reliablilty and ease of concelment.  During WW2 the PP’s and PPK’s were issued to German military police personnel, high military officers and other military personnel. Hitler used his PPK to off himself during the final days of the War.  The PP and PPK are blowback operated handguns. Both have chamber loaded indicator, external hammer, manual safety and out of battery safety. The manual safety is somewhat odd, because it has to be turned UP to be set to fire position, instead of common down direction.
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4909/firefoxgun1a6vx.jpg)
The model we see Gant with is the .32 Caliber ACP
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7222/waltherppulmwz0.jpg)
Specifications
·   Type: Double Action
·   Caliber: .22LR or 6.35mm auto (.25 ACP) or 7.65mm (.32ACP) or 9x17mm (.380 ACP, 9mmkz)
·   Length overall: 173mm PP, 154 mm PPK
·   Mass: 682g PP, 568g PPK
·   Barrel length: 99mm PP, 84mm PPK
·   Capacity: 8 (PP), 6+1 (PPK) rounds
The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-31

(http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/6085/mig31firefoxtz6.jpg)

The Mig 31 is a flying arsonal capable of stealth (limited because of the powerful engines) and hypersonic flight. It allows the pilot to control weapons and other flight systems via thought, with the caveat that the system only understands thoughts in the Russian language, leading to the training mantra for foreign pilots: "Think in Russian!"

(http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6640/250pxmig31gearandr33ge0.jpg)
The MiG-31's main armament is four Vympel R-33 (AA-9 'Amos') air-to-air missiles carried under the belly. The R-33 is the Russian equivalent of the United States Navy AIM-54 Phoenix. It can be guided in semi-active radar homing (SARH) mode, or launched in inertial guidance mode with the option of mid-course updates from the launch aircraft. It switches on its own active radar for the terminal homing phase

(http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/5961/180pxr40ij0.jpg)
Other weapons include the old R-40 (AA-6 'Acrid'), originally deployed on the MiG-25.


(http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/8413/250pxaphidmissilesvgge4.png)
The R-60 (AA-8 'Aphid') or R-73 (AA-11 'Archer') short-range missiles, carried on wing pylons.

(http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/3226/180pxr73r77ls7.jpg)
And the R-77 (AA-12 'Adder') also on the wing pylons.

(http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7671/gsh623pb0.jpg)
The MiG-31 has an internal cannon, a six-barrel GSh-6-23 with 260 rounds of ammunition, mounted above the starboard main landing gear bay. The GSh-6-23 has a claimed rate of fire of over 8,000 rounds per minute.


Credits and References coming soon...
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KyleMoss on October 02, 2006, 11:53:11 PM
After re-visiting this thread alter more than a year...
I've always thought it was a roller, or a high wall or any one of the many other lesser known design that look similar. But after looking at that one frame, I don't know.

While I've never seen one with an octagon barrel, what he's got in his hands looks more like a Peabody than anything else.
(http://photos.imageevent.com/cas6969/pi/clint.jpg)

Thing is there are so many other designs, it could be just about anything.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: josey wales 1963 on October 26, 2006, 08:31:50 AM
clint's pretty good with"a nice peace of hickory"too!
ask the semipros he beat the hell out of in unforgiven.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on October 26, 2006, 09:22:55 PM
clint's pretty good with"a nice peace of hickory"too!
ask the semipros he beat the hell out of in unforgiven.

I think you mean Pale Rider. In Unforgiven, the one who gets the hell beaten out of him is Clint.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: William Barney on February 28, 2007, 06:09:48 PM
 ;DI think in one of his movies he had used a colt pistol in one of his movies I watched
I also watched dirty hairy he had used these guns too  I love Clint's older movies but all
He is a dam good actor I had missed some of his other movies like million dollar baby which was a true
movie I had watched his interview of that movie never watched it

what else did he used for guns  in other movies?

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on February 28, 2007, 09:07:57 PM
William, if you read through this whole thread starting on Page 1, you can find out a lot about the guns he used in most of his movies up through the early 1980s. :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Dirty Harry Callahan on March 08, 2007, 09:59:16 AM
wow those are soe nice gun..thanks
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on March 17, 2007, 11:22:08 AM
Sudden Impact 1983

(http://aycu20.webshots.com/image/12859/2000131352020414589_fs.jpg)



Now we come to Sudden Impact and Harry is sporting the look of the “in 80’s” stainless steel.  I have had discussions in the past with various gun enthusiasts as to whether or not the .44 magnum revolver Harry uses in the famous coffee shop scene is a stainless steel model 629 or if it is his old reliable model 29.  Regardless of the cosmetics I think it’s safe to say that whether it’s stainless or blued the criminals on the receiving end don’t much care.  However, for argument sake, I have watched the coffee shop scene over and over again and I am personally convinced he is using a stainless steel model in that particular scene.  People in the past have told me that it’s just the lighting in that scene or the angle at which it is shot but I still beg to differ.  I have had an 8 X 10 Glossy (Kodak paper) of the famous “Go ahead, make my day” shot since ’88 and it looks like stainless steel in that photo.  Regardless of what I think we live in a democracy and I am going to be outvoted on this one but for the record I’ll stick with my 629 theory.

(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5763/44magnumgoncaloalves110gk2.jpg)
Smith and Wesson Model 629

Let’s move on to the AutoMag, Harry’s new toy. 
The .44 Magnum Automag
(http://aycu20.webshots.com/image/12939/2000153555134895004_fs.jpg)
The .44 Automag was originally created in the late 60's by the Pasadena Corporation.  After the Pasadena days, several companies had their own version of the firearm, including:  TDE North Hollywood, TDE El Monte, High Standard, TDE / OMC, and AMT.
Contrary to popular belief, the automag used in Sudden Impact was neither a Pasadena model, nor an AMT (although I have come across certain documentation to the contrary which I will provide links to below) .  It was actually one of two guns that were hand-crafted especially for use in the film.  Only one of the two actually fired, and was used for all of the shooting scenes.

THE ORIGIN OF HARRY'S AUTOMAG
In the novel, the film's screenwriter reveals Harry's introduction to the Automag: 
Harry had received it as a gift.  The grateful husband of a hostage and potential murder victim was a master gunsmith.  A few months after Harry had rescued his wife from the mess of a botched bank robbery, he had sent him the boxed gun and a card that read, "You saved my wife's life.  Maybe this will help to save yours.".
In his time as a cop, Harry had never accepted a thing, not even a free cup of coffee.  But he accepted this gift.


AMMUNITION
The .44 Auto Mag cartridge was introduced in the ill-fated Auto Mag pistol in 1971.  Its rimless, straight wall case was formed by reducing the length of the .308 Winchester case (or any other member of the .30-06 family) to 1.30 inches.   The .44 Auto Mag was designed to shoot .429 inch bullets at about the same velocity as the .44 Magnum.  No U.S. manufacturer has offered a factory loading for this cartridge, but cases were once available from a Mexican firm of Cartuchos Deportivos Mexico.

The gas operated Auto Mag featured a rotary bolt with locking lugs located at the front , much the same design as the later Wildey and Desert Eagle autoloader.  Like those two, it was an extremely massive and heavy firearm designed to give handgun hunters .44 Magnum power from an autoloader.  The cartridge was an excellent move in the right direction in the 70's, but the gun was short lived due to a variety of reasons.

Like its ballistic twin the .44 Magnum, the .44 Auto Mag is powerful enough to be used on game such as deer and black bear at woods ranges.  Whether or not one should go to the trouble of doing so today is questionable.  Forming the case requires a set of custom dies from RCBS, an inside neck reamer, and plenty of spare time.  If not for the availability of dependable autoloaders in .44 Magnum and .45 Winchester Magnum, the .44 Auto Mag concept would probably still be a good idea.

Taken from Jake’s Dirty Harry Site  the-dirtiest (http://www.the-dirtiest.com/).

(http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/12267/2002222938290600252_fs.jpg)

In researching information on the AutoMag I would like to provide a few links which I find particularly interesting in regards to the “Clint Special”…

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9522/clinteastwoodof0.jpg)

Arcadia Machine and Tool Letter (http://www.automagparts.com/images/clint_arcadia-machine-and-t.jpg)

Arcadia Machine and Tool Order (http://www.automagparts.com/images/clint_arcadia2.jpg)

Malpaso Productions (http://www.automagparts.com/images/clint_malpaso-productions.jpg)

All of the above documents from http://www.automagparts.com/

So assuming that the documents above are legitimate I think that AMT did indeed provided fabrication of the AutoMag for Warner Brothers.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on March 17, 2007, 03:29:57 PM
Thanks for returning to this thread, D'Amb!  (http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/boardgrin.gif)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Lilly on April 02, 2007, 04:14:40 AM
Cool stuff. Thanks D'Amb, I've wondered about that automag.  Nice to see the documents.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Alcatraz on April 21, 2007, 11:54:17 AM
I like this thread. Lots of reading though.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Americanbeauty on May 02, 2007, 07:09:36 PM
I found this a few days ago, thought you guys might like to know -I've been through the whole thread, and didn't see anything about the gun used in Blood Work -less cooler than the .44 Magnum, but still, nice little gun ;)

(http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/627-8shot.jpg)

Quote
This is the Smith &Wesson Performance Center 627, an eight-shot .357 magnum best known as the gun from Clint Eastwood's Blood Work. S&W still offers the gun, but only with a five inch barrel rather than the 2.65 inch barrel. Both models have ".357 Mag 8 x" stamped on the barrel.
LINK (http://www.lesjones.com/posts/001834.shtml)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Tehama Tony on May 03, 2007, 12:12:48 PM
Thanks for sharing that Beauty,   8)
I didn't realize S&W could put 8 rounds of .357 in to one cylinder.   :o  Wow!  Seems the pressure would be too high for it.  For example, some of the larger S&W magnums were cut down to 5 shots instead of 6, I believe because of the pressure those rounds create would possibly crack the cylinder.
Anyway, cool to see what McCaleb was carrying, besides the shotgun in that one scene of Bloodwork where he starts walking toward that suspect car just blasting away.   O0
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on May 10, 2007, 11:01:44 PM
Thanks for posting that Beauty...  At one time we had discussed this a few years back but for some reason I can't seem to find the old thread.  Lost in Cyber Space...

Looks like I'm going to have to finally break down and purchase City Heat for my next installment...
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Mingo on May 13, 2007, 08:10:28 PM
Gentlemen, a follow up to John Omohundro's posting on  Sept. 17, 2003 and D'Ambrosia's posting regarding the rifles used in Joe Kidd. After researching  Nick Stroebel's book, Old Rifle Scopes and a Rifle Magazine article on Ross rifles by Ross Seyfreid (Jan.2000), I've come to the following conclusions.

Joe's mystery rifle used in the sniper duel sequence with Mingo, is a Ross rifle sporter/special take-down model M-10 (1910) in .280 Ross caliber with 26" barrel. That Ross cartridge was essentially a 7mm Rem. mag 60 years earlier. The rifle features a straight pull bolt action and is fitted with what appears to be a Winchester A-5 or B-5 scope (C:1909) of 5x power with micrometer mounts.

Olin Mingo's rifle is a Remington-Keene bolt action sporter in either .40-60 Marlin & Ballard Cal. or .45-70 Govt. Cal. with a shortened under barrel tube magazine & barrel band sling swivel. One key is when Mingo shoots Chama's right hand man Manolo from his horse. When Harlan tells Mingo, "I want him alive", Mingo dismounts, slings up and then cocks an external hammer at the end of the bolt, a Rem.-Keene feature not found on the Winchester Hotchkiss. The scope appears to be a  Wm. Malcolm or J.W. Sidle scope from the early 20th century. The scope mount I can't identify.

I am really intrigued by this web site, keep up the good work.

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on May 13, 2007, 09:34:07 PM
Thanks for the input, Mingo ... and welcome to the Board! 8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: JKOmohundro on July 18, 2007, 04:34:38 PM
Mingo:

I second KC's remarks--both of them.  :)

I was pretty sure that Olin Mingo's rifle was a Remington-Keene--I saw information on another site that identified it as such. (However, I wasn't *absolutely* certain, because the barrel on Mingo's rifle extended well beyond the end of the magazine tube, and all of the Remington-Keenes that I've seen photographs of have a magazine tube that extends all the way to the muzzle, as in a Winchester lever-action rifle or carbine.)

I was also at a loss as to what the cased rifle was that Kidd "appropriated" from the bad guys' "home" at the mission. Someone else on this forum--in this section, IIRC--suggested that it was a Ross, but the only photo they showed was of a military version. Frankly, I was unaware that there even *was* a sporter model.  :)

My biggest complaint about this film is that the scriptwriters expected us (the viewers) to suspend our disbelief--not just
*once*, but *twice*. On both occasions Kidd uses, to deadly effect,  a weapon that he has never handled before, much less fired--first Lamarr's Mauser automatic pistol, and then the high-powered rifle in question. Although Kidd had seen the Mauser pistol several times before, he had never handled or fired it!

(This ignores the fact that, during the escape sequence, he fires, by my count (according to the soundtrack) at least fifty shots from a ten-shot semiautomatic pistol--without reloading. (If you watch the film closely--or if you slo-mo it on VHS or DVD--you'll notice that the pistol's action cycles once for every second or third shot on the soundtrack. And even if he had reloaded, Lamarr had already fired at least ten shots during the confrontation with Manolo and his friends. As far as I know, Lamarr only had two clips for the weapon--the one that he stripped into the gun during his abortive attempt to show off for Kidd in Harlan's hotel room (Lamarr: "Let me show you somethin' here, buddy!" Harlan: "Shut the window, Lamarr."), and the one that was shown in the band of his hat while he was standing watch in the mission's bell tower.

Besides, unless it wasn't shown on-camera, Kidd left the second clip behind when he took off Lamarr's hat and replaced it with his own, just prior to climbing down the rope to escape the bell tower. :)

(Although I suppose that Lamarr *could* have had extra ammunition on him somewhere--either in boxes in his pockets, or in extra clips--but Kidd didn't have time to search the body.)

As for the Ross rifle,  he'd never even *seen* it before--and how did he know what was in the case?  :o


Still, Joe Kidd remains one of my favorite Eastwood Westerns, although perhaps not up to the standards of such blockbusters as The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly or Unforgiven.

(BTW: "John Omohundro" and "JKOmohundro" are the same person, back after a protracted absence. :) I had some trouble reactivating my old membership, and had to start over from scratch.)

--John Omohundro
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on July 18, 2007, 04:53:21 PM
And welcome back! :)

Pondering some more on your question re suspension of disbelief: Isn't it possible that Kidd was familiar with these guns from somewhere in his shady past before the action of the film begins? We're led to believe that he had been a bounty hunter by trade.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: JKOmohundro on July 18, 2007, 05:15:00 PM
Could be, KC, could be! :)

--John
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Mingo on August 03, 2007, 12:09:49 PM
John, I agree with  you  in wondering, how did Joe know those weapons. It could have been from his bounty hunter days or when he would guide hunting trips for wealthy individuals who may have possessed those modern firearms. A good website for viewing the Ross M-10 sporter is the collector website JoeSalter.com. That was an impressive rifle for it's day. I agree, The Remington Keene did have that unusual shortened tube magazine that I hadn't seen before.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Mingo on August 03, 2007, 04:28:02 PM
P.S.  John, the Canadian Ross M-10 sporter is item #3508 listed  under modern longarms on the Joe Salter web site. I also like Joe Kidd specifically because of the unique weapondry used in the movie.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Josh Campbell on August 07, 2007, 02:15:22 PM
Well I don't claim to be a gun expert but the Smith&Weson 44. magnum in those movies is just that an S&W. 44. mag. But I agree about that rifle in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly though.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: HarveyLogan on May 05, 2008, 03:55:55 PM
In re to the rifle at the end of GB&U, I don't know where he got it, but the only rifle I saw Van Cleef using that I remember was a cap & ball revolving rifle, either Colt or Remington. I recall getting a good look into the cylinder chambers as Van Cleef was shooting in the combat type street shootout ("...id-e-uh, i-dee-ah...IDIOT; it's for you.") and saw the lead balls pretty clearly. I don't know much about the revolving rifles of that time period but that's what Van Cleef was using. Maybe he had more than one rifle, though...The one at the end looked like a customized Sharps carbine. Did'nt look totally like a Spencer or a Sharps to me.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Mingo on May 11, 2008, 06:46:30 PM
HarveyLogan, there has been a lot of discussion on this board as to the identity of the rifle Blondie uses at the end of the G,B&U.  Was it a C. Sharps, Sharps-Borchardt, Spencer, Peabody, etc.  My opinion is the receiver side is too smooth and long to be a C. Sharps &  looks similar to a Sharps-Borchardt, but they don't have the external side-mounted hammer.

After further review, I 'm quite confident it is a rare Harder/Spencer sporting "Buffalo" rifle with a 30" octagonal barrel by the  J. Harder Co. of Lock Haven, Pa. These scarce rifles were used by frontier plains hunters in the 1870's, which ironically does not match the time period of the movie.

There is a telltale sign to this conclusion. If you go to page 13 of this thread and look at the picture on the bottom of that page posted by D'Ambrosia, you will see a curved receiver bulge directly above Blondie's fourth finger, a Spencer feature not found on any others mentioned. Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f379.html (http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f379.html)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Flock on June 16, 2008, 01:38:07 AM
Question - why the silver rattlesnake on the grip of the gun - is there history behind this ?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on June 16, 2008, 02:30:49 AM
Yes, it's from Clint's original Western character, Rowdy Yates in the TV series Rawhide.

See this post by D'Ambrosia, earlier in this thread:
Fistful Of Dollars-1964 and For A Few Dollars More-1965

The six shooter that Joe carries in Fistful of Dollars is an 1873 Colt SAA- Peacemaker.  The image below does not depict the famous walnut silverplated snake handled grips that Yates, Joe, Manco and Blondie wield in Rawhide, FFD, FFDM and GBU (which, infact, the same gun that was used in Rawhide is  the same gun used in  FFD and FFDM by Joe and Manco)   If I'm real lucky KC might post up the little story behind Rowdy comming across that particular firearm...:)  8)

I believe that Joe (Fistful of dollars) and Manco (For a Few Dollars More) had the 5 1/2 inch barrel:
1873 SAA Colt Peacemaker.  .45 cal with a 5 1/2 inch barrel:

(http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/cim_1873colt_mod_P_big.jpg)


The beautiful deep walnut pure silver inlaid rattlesnake grips that Yates, Joe, Manco and Blondie acquire and wear throughout...
(http://www.spaghettiwesternreplicas.com/images/gripprod.jpg)

Manco uses the same exact gun in For A Few Dollars More (Or does he ;) ) Manco could, infact, have an '77 ...   so I'll just move on to The Good The Bad  and the Ugly...

And my post from a bit farther down the same page:

Quote
I was hoping I could find my post from a couple of years back about how Rowdy Yates acquired his Peacemaker ... but it seems to be lost. However, the gist was this, as I once posted on the Leone board ...

Quote
It was the second episode to air ... "Incident at Alabaster Plain," 1/16/1959. [Mark] Richman played a bad guy with a showy gun and a crying need for an anger management program. In the end, he was dead and Rowdy got his revolver.

Here's the gun's first appearance, in the gunbelt worn by Richman's character ...
(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/Snake1.JPG)

In 1964, Eastwood brought the gun with him, along with a few wardrobe items, when he agreed to make A Fistful of Dollars[/] in Italy and Spain for Sergio Leone.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Flock on June 16, 2008, 03:58:31 AM
I'm aware he brought it with him from the TV series Rawhide. I was trying to understand if there was any feedback from Clint why he chose this gun (other than it shoots straight in the movies). Was this an original requirment by Clint - the silver rattlesnake grip? Is there any deep and meaningful reason behind this? The creator of the gun might know......
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Flock on June 16, 2008, 08:52:36 AM
Ok, I've found the best answer - "The silver rattlesnake was originally made by the late Andy Anderson for Clint Eastwood, who always brought his own guns and gunbelt to the movie set. Eastwood was fond of his Colt 45 with the pure silver rattlesnake in mid-strike, as it was a potent symbol of his character's deadly sharp shooting finesse with a pistol." Thanks.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on June 16, 2008, 08:56:45 AM
And that quote is from ... ? ???
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Flock on June 16, 2008, 08:58:25 AM
spaghettiwesternreplicas.com
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on June 16, 2008, 09:14:39 AM
Yes, I just found it there:

http://www.spaghettiwesternreplicas.com/grip.html

The author of the quote would be the company's owner, Don Martinez.

I have one of their replica rattlesnakes, done as a pendant.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Judge on June 29, 2008, 08:20:02 AM
Just found a site that does replicas, an Automag was on there, but has benn sold unfortunately.  They also have a Magnum, 6" and 8", but, those replicas are not all metal, they are ABS plastic with zinc alloy parts. they also can fire "caps" as a little bonus. modelguns-worldwide.com
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: ben james on September 29, 2008, 09:59:34 AM
Good day all!  :)

I am new to the forums (this and all others).  I'm an amateur history buff, primarily focusing on Civil War, the "cowboy" era, WWII 10th Mountain Division, most anything between 1750 and 1950 American History, and guns in general.  Clint is my absolute favorite.  This forum is excellent!

D'Ambrosia, KC, and the rest of you fellas have done some really nice work.  I spent most of last evening reading all the posts on this thread and have a few questions/notes (OK, maybe more than a few).

As far as the rifle used in the end of GBU goes (which is obviously hard to positively identify) I would like to think it is a Sharps Model '59, '63, or '65 (all the same gun really).  Mostly because it is the only period correct rifle it resembles IMHO.  However I really think it more closely resembles the Remington Rolling Block or a Winchester High Wall due to the receiver profile (which you really don't get a great view of).  Both the Rolling Block and the High Walls are not period correct.  As far as the Spencer is concerned, even though based off a Sharps, these weren't known for the same accuracy needed to make the shot in the film (I know, it's just a movie).  And the Spencer was not considered a "Buffalo" gun.  It definitely could do the job though with its .56-56 cartridge (actually a .52 caliber rimfire) and very likely some were used, but most "Buffalo" guns were chosen for accuracy (even though not always needed).  It is definitely not a Spencer Carbine.  Sporting Rifles were/are quite rare.  Could be a military rifle modified to a sporting gun though.

A note (or 2 or 3) on conversions (in regards to GBU): 

The 1851 Navy Blondie uses is my absolute favorite gun of his.  I think the Navy is the most beautiful gun ever produced (the Colt '61 fans will no doubt disagree - just my opinion).  Wild Bill is my favorite historical figure who carried 'em and Clint is my favorite fictional character.

Although I am by no means an expert on this subject I have done quite a bit of research over the years and have come to the following conclusions concerning the conversions (I realize some of this has been noted already). 

The Colt Thuer conversions were the only factory conversions done that left the loading lever in place for convenient use of either cartridge or percussion cylinders.  Changing between the two was not a big deal.  No ejector rod was provided on the Thuer.  Although not period correct, as they weren't produced until '69, they are the only ones that resemble Blondie's gun, as later conversions (Richards, Richards "transition", and Richards-Mason) removed the loading lever.

Clint's gun was actually an 1851 Navy which used a modern R&D conversion cylinder.  Due to the period, the fact that factory conversions were not made yet, and the use of the R&D means his gun absolutely would have to be a individual gunsmiths creation (in the fictional yet period correct world of GBU). 

The Remington, which was Angel Eyes gun, which even though, as mentioned in a previous thread, was a "cap and ball" gun, seems to be that it was meant to appear to be a cartridge conversion due to the cartridges in his belt loops - these could have been for his unidentified rifle I guess).

Individual gunsmiths did in fact make these conversions prior to factory conversions, but what cartridges were available for these conversions?

The first ones in calibers appropriate for use in conversions (large caliber that is, appropriate for Colt Army and the Remington New Model Army - erroneously referred to as the 1858 Model by some - 1858 was merely the patent date of the revolver - it was not produced until '63) would appear to be the .44 Henry.  The Henry was a rimfire cartridge made for the Henry rifle, predecessor of the Winchester lever actions.  Even though made for a rifle, for all practical purposes it is a handgun round.  As far as I am aware this is the only .44 caliber round which was in use at the time.  It could have been used in an 1860 Army or a Remington (although I've never seen any evidence that this specific cartridge was ver chambered in these guns).  Otherwise the cartridges for Angel Eyes gun would have to have been custom made which seems quite unlikely to me (not that it couldn't be done - just saying it doesn't fit his character).

As far as the 1851 Navy, I'm not aware of any production cartridge of the era that was produced in an appropriate caliber.  The first I know of is the .36 produced for the Thuer conversions of 1851s and '61s starting in '69.  Most of the conversions for Navies were done with .38 caliber rounds (.38 Short Colt, made specifically for conversions).  The cartridge used must be at least as big as the original .36 bore unless a completely new barrel as well as the cylinder were made to be mounted on the frame.  Traditionally barrels were just rebored and cylinders modified or replaced.  Other than the .44 Henry I'm only aware of .22 caliber rounds created by S&W for their Model No. 1 Revolver in '57.  After that other .22 rimfires were produced for other guns during the period.  It seems Blondie would have to had custom made ammo as well (again, I find it unlikely).  I does seem appropriate that he still had the loading lever attached as prior to the common production of cartridge firing guns, and the ammo for them, being able to switch to "cap & ball" would be very much wanted.

Does anyone happen to know of any .38 (or .36+) or any other .44 (+) ammo of the era that was in production?

Someone mentioned that '51 Navies were smoothbore and '61s rifled.  Is that true?  Can anyone cite references?  What about the '60?  Just seems odd to me (and I really should know).

Oh yeah, someone was asking about a repro of Clint's "Man With No Name" conversion (might have been a while back).  They are available from Cimarron.  I'm not quite sure how true to the original they are, but look fantastic to me!  Here's a link to the gun on Cimarrons site: 

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Conversions/ManNo%20NameConv.htm

Just curious, but is the term "Golden Boy" actually a commonly used term for the Henry?  I've never heard that one.  "Yellow Boy" for the Winchester 1866, yes (however this term is a modern nickname not used in the "cowboy" era).

I believe it was D'Ambrosia who mentioned a Colt Model #3 2nd Model '86 SAA Peacemaker as used by Clint in one of his westerns.  Could someone please clarify specifically what this model is?  I've never heard of it and can find no refernce to it in any of my books.  Best as I can figure it may be a reference to the change from what is called the Blackpowder (which it is not) frame to the Pre-War frame, however this occurred in Late '91/early '92 not '86.  Really curious - educate me.

Also there was a reference to a 2nd Model '77 .44 in Hang 'em High.  I'm not familiar with this gun either.  Anyone have more specific info?

As far as the Thompson SMG goes, it was stated that Thompson developed the .45 ACP.  Did he assist John Browning in some way?  The only relation to Thompson & the .45 ACP I know of is that he chaired the Ordnance Board which approved its use for the military, and it while developing the Thompson that Auto Ordnance determined that the .45 ACP was the only appropriate round for use with the guns Blish lock mechanism (which of course is what the gun was chambered for).  Also I believe it was stated that the .45 ACP was created in 1904.  My reference material only shows its arrival in 1911 along with the Colt Auto.  It was derived from the .45 rimless cartridge developed for the Colt Model 1905 (1905-1911), however this was not actually the ACP round used in the 1911.  I'd really like to know more - if anyone can site references as well that would be great!

OK, now Dirty Harry.  Has it been verified that Clint used a custom .44 mag developed for blanks (or that it even existed)?
Unsubstantiated rumors I've heard that a Model 57 .41 Mag was used makes sense to me as Hollywood did produce blanks that would work in this gun.  Making custom blanks seems less likely a scenario.

How 'bout that "Most powerful handgun" statement?  I'm no ballistics expert but have heard that up until that time the Colt Walker "cap 'n ball" (yup -Josie Wales) still packed more of a wallop.  Anyone know if that's true?

Previously mentioned was that the Colt Baby Dragoon came out in '48.  Not to be picky, but I'm a stickler, it actually came out in '47.

"Missouri Boat Ride" - small note:  The '63 Sharps was actually a .52 caliber gun, .54 caliber guns are the reproductions.

Most of my gun knowledge concerns American arms but I am curious about the mention of the .32 ACP Walther PPK (yeah, I'm a James Bond fan too - .380 ACP).  Is it verified that it was a .32?

I apologize if anyone finds this initial entry rather lengthy.  Just like to catch up to the current date.

I look forward to more Clint gun info!

Benjamin James
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Mingo on October 07, 2008, 07:49:00 PM
Welcome Ben James.  A few Spencers were built into sporter/buffalo rifles in the 1870's. In my post on the previous page, I linked to a rare Harder/Spencer sporter rifle very close to the GBU rifle, sans the rear vernier  sight. This rifle on Gunbroker is exactly the one.  Click on the link below & compare all the details with the rifle in the final scene of GBU. There is no doubt in my mind this is the rifle used by Blondie in that scene.http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=112516674#PIC (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=112516674#PIC)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: ben james on October 09, 2008, 07:04:48 AM
Thanks for the welcome Mingo.

I have to agree that rifle definitely fits the bill.  The hammer profile seems correct.  Curious if you know whether the octagonal barrels were mainly a sporting rifle trait or not.  I thought Spencers all had round barrels. 

If these Spencers were made in the 70's they are inappropriate for the time period of GBU however.  Historical accuracy is, of course, not a forte of these films.  I also like to think about what period correct arm this rifle could represent (even though I'm sure this was not thought of by Leone or crew).

Also, an amendment to my previous post (although not specifically related to Clint):  James Bond did indeed use a .32 acp according to the book Dr No.  I don't think it was mentioned in the movie which caliber he used (I don't have the movie for reference).

Benjamin James
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Mingo on October 09, 2008, 11:51:36 AM
Ben James, thanks for the comments. It certainly took time  freeze framing the CD, plus internet  research to figure this one out.  The receiver profile/hammer detail was the final telltale, since the forend profile & octagonal barrel could be from a half dozen other sporting rifles of that timeframe. I believe the octagonal barrels were a pure sporting rifle feature. I've never seen the carbines with anything but round barrels.

I agree, this rifle wasn't period accurate for the movie, but it certainly made an impressive impact in that scene none the less. On this subject, Elmore Leonard did go out of his way to insure period accurate weapons & optics in Joe Kidd.

Again, welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: brendog10 on January 04, 2009, 06:34:34 PM
  Hello everyone,

       I'm new to the forum, Well actually I've been a member for a while but never posted . Anyway , I was just on the EMF firearms website and they claimed that Clint used a Winchester 1892 rifle in Rawhide. Can anyone confirm that or have a picture you can post. THANKS.

Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on January 04, 2009, 07:38:56 PM
Sorry, I don't know the answer, and our resident gun expert hasn't posted here in a while. In Rawhide, Clint's character (Rowdy Yates) is most often seen with a Colt Peacemaker revolver, as reported by D'Ambrosia in one of the first posts in this thread:

Fistful Of Dollars-1964 and For A Few Dollars More-1965

The six shooter that Joe carries in Fistful of Dollars is an 1873 Colt SAA- Peacemaker.  The image below does not depict the famous walnut silverplated snake handled grips that Yates, Joe, Manco and Blondie wield in Rawhide, FFD, FFDM and GBU (which, infact, the same gun that was used in Rawhide is  the same gun used in  FFD and FFDM by Joe and Manco)  ...

I believe that Joe (Fistful of dollars) and Manco (For a Few Dollars More) had the 5 1/2 inch barrel:
1873 SAA Colt Peacemaker.  .45 cal with a 5 1/2 inch barrel:[/center]
 
(http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/cim_1873colt_mod_P_big.jpg)

Of course, that doesn't mean that Rowdy didn't use a Winchester rifle sometime or another ... the series ran for seven years. '92 would be late for Rawhide, which I believe was set in the 1870s. However, at least according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1892), that minor matter of an anachronism didn't otherwise faze Hollywood and TV:

Quote
Although the Model 1892 made its debut after the closing of the American frontier, and the true "Guns that Won the West" were the earlier Models 1866 and 1873, nonetheless the '92 became an indelible icon of Western mythology through its use in hundreds of motion pictures and television shows, standing in for its older siblings. John Wayne famously carried Model 92's in dozens of films and owned several personally, some with the distinctive oversized "loop" lever. Other notable screen 92's were those of Chuck Connors in The Rifleman TV series, and Steve McQueen's "Mare's Leg" in Wanted: Dead or Alive.

Hollywood studios purchased the '92 in quantity because it was in regular production (until World War II) but looked sufficiently like Old West Winchesters to substitute for valuable antiques, and because in calibers .44-40 and .38-40 it could fire, together with the Colt Single Action Army "Peacemaker" revolver, the standard Five-in-One blank cartridge. This latter practice mirrored the real cowboys, who found it convenient to carry a Winchester '73 and Colt sixshooter with common ammunition.

Maybe someone here who has the DVDs of Rawhide released so far would recall whether Rowdy is seen with a rifle in any of the episodes? ???

Anyway, welcome to the Board, or at least, welcome to posting, brendog10! 8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: herofan on March 07, 2009, 07:06:02 AM
Fistful Of Dollars-1964 and For A Few Dollars More-1965

The six shooter that Joe carries in Fistful of Dollars is an 1873 Colt SAA- Peacemaker.  The image below does not depict the famous walnut silverplated snake handled grips that Yates, Joe, Manco and Blondie wield in Rawhide, FFD, FFDM and GBU (which, infact, the same gun that was used in Rawhide is  the same gun used in  FFD and FFDM by Joe and Manco)   If I'm real lucky KC might post up the little story behind Rowdy comming across that particular firearm...:)  8)

I believe that Joe (Fistful of dollars) [/b] and Manco (For a Few Dollars More) had the 5 1/2 inch barrel:
1873 SAA Colt Peacemaker.  .45 cal with a 5 1/2 inch barrel:

(http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/cim_1873colt_mod_P_big.jpg)


The beautiful deep walnut pure silver inlet rattlesnake grips that Yates, Joe, Manco and Blondie acquire and wear throughout...
(http://www.spaghettiwesternreplicas.com/images/gripprod.jpg)

Manco uses the same exact gun in For A Few Dollars More (Or does he ;) ) Manco could, infact, have an '77 ...   so I'll just move on to The Good The Bad  and the Ugly...


I just saw the episode of "Rawhide"  that introduced this gun this morning.  I was excited to get on and make mention of it; I wasn't aware the gun from FFD and FFDM originated in "Rawhide."  That's very interesting.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on March 07, 2009, 08:29:18 AM
I just saw the episode of "Rawhide"  that introduced this gun this morning.  I was excited to get on and make mention of it; I wasn't aware the gun from FFD and FFDM originated in "Rawhide."  That's very interesting.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it was the second Rawhide episode to air, "Incident at Alabaster Plain," 1/16/1959. (Fifty years ago now!  :o)

Here's how the gun appears when first seen, in the bad guy's holster:

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/Snake1.JPG)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on August 21, 2009, 08:41:04 PM
ben james I know I'm a day late and a dollar short.  
My response is in blue....

As far as the rifle used in the end of GBU goes (which is obviously hard to positively identify) I would like to think it is a Sharps Model '59, '63, or '65 (all the same gun really).  Mostly because it is the only period correct rifle it resembles IMHO.  However I really think it more closely resembles the Remington Rolling Block or a Winchester High Wall due to the receiver profile (which you really don't get a great view of).  Both the Rolling Block and the High Walls are not period correct.  As far as the Spencer is concerned, even though based off a Sharps, these weren't known for the same accuracy needed to make the shot in the film (I know, it's just a movie).  And the Spencer was not considered a "Buffalo" gun.  It definitely could do the job though with its .56-56 cartridge (actually a .52 caliber rimfire) and very likely some were used, but most "Buffalo" guns were chosen for accuracy (even though not always needed).  It is definitely not a Spencer Carbine.  Sporting Rifles were/are quite rare.  Could be a military rifle modified to a sporting gun though.

In response to Angel Eyes rifle that Blondie procures at the end of the movie I’m not quite sure I agree with you on the Winchester or the Remington being the rifle.  I agree with Mingo in thinking it’s got to be a Spencer Sporting rifle.  You can clearly see that Blondie has his hand on something directly below were the barrel meets the receiver right behind the forestock.  There is no gun other than the Spencer that has a receiver mechanism that protrudes downward that anyone could grasp onto in front of the trigger guard.  You can also see directly above Blondie’s ring finger the semi round hammer housing that is only prevalent on a Spencer.  Angel Eye’s gun belt would have the Spencer brass cartridges in the loops as you can clearly see that his Remington has percussion caps on the cylinder.  However, Angel eyes does use a GBU special (Colt Conversion) at the beginning of the movie to dispatch Baker but that is the only time we see the revolver so it’s unlikely that the cartridges in the loops would be the .38’s.) I guess it could possibly be a Ball & Williams Ballard rifle(produced from 1862 to 1865) in which case those could be cartridges ranging anywhere from .32, .38, .44, or .46 rimfire.
 
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/356/ndvd1022.png)
Green=Receiver block  Orange=Hammer housing  Red=Trigger gaurd

A note (or 2 or 3) on conversions (in regards to GBU):

The 1851 Navy Blondie uses is my absolute favorite gun of his.  I think the Navy is the most beautiful gun ever produced (the Colt '61 fans will no doubt disagree - just my opinion).  Wild Bill is my favorite historical figure who carried 'em and Clint is my favorite fictional character.

Although I am by no means an expert on this subject I have done quite a bit of research over the years and have come to the following conclusions concerning the conversions (I realize some of this has been noted already).  

The Colt Thuer conversions were the only factory conversions done that left the loading lever in place for convenient use of either cartridge or percussion cylinders.  Changing between the two was not a big deal.  No ejector rod was provided on the Thuer.  Although not period correct, as they weren't produced until '69, they are the only ones that resemble Blondie's gun, as later conversions (Richards, Richards "transition", and Richards-Mason) removed the loading lever.

Colt Thuer conversions were not the only factory converstions to leave the loading lever in place.  Remington’s factory conversions left the majority of their loading levers in place. #1

Blondie’s gun is obviously not a factory conversion because of the time frame but by no means is his conversion anywhere close to a Thuer conversion.  Thuer conversions had to be loaded from the front of the cylinder using tapered cartridges and had a breech plate with a rebounding firing pin.  You can clearly see that Blondie has a bore through cylinder and there is no breech plate.  The only resemblance to Thurer’s conversion is that the loading lever is left in place.

As I have stated before there were cartridge conversions crafted by gunsmiths that had total disregard for the Rollin White patent before the factory conversions that left the loading lever in place.  Serveral of these conversions where capable of switching back and forth from cartridge to cap and ball.  
Clint's gun was actually an 1851 Navy which used a modern R&D conversion cylinder.  Due to the period, the fact that factory conversions were not made yet, and the use of the R&D means his gun absolutely would have to be a individual gunsmiths creation (in the fictional yet period correct world of GBU).

The R&D is a two piece "drop in" cylinder with individual firing pins on the second back part of the cylinder.  Plus, I don’t think R&D even made cartridge conversion cylinders back in the 60’s.  If anything, it more closely resembles a Krist Konvertor cylinder.   The Krist has a loading gate and there is no need to "drop in" and take out the cylinder for loading like the R&D. You can clearly see a loading gate on Blondie's gun as well as the one piece bore through cylinder.  The Italians were famous for bringing back authentic replicas of old firearms back in the 1950’s with one exception, they fired modern smokeless loads.  The movie prop gun is more than likely an “old looking” Italian replica that fires modern ammunition.  I can say with conviction that Blondie's gun does not use an R&D cylinder.  

As far as the individual gunsmith theory, I totally agree with you on that one.  In the fictional GBU universe Blondies gunsmith could infact have been Thomas Cofer, a Confederate gunsmith, who filed for a patent in Richmond as soon as the south succeeded for a revolver using a bore though cylinder with special metallic cartridges.#2a&b  Cofer produced revolvers from 1861 to 1862 and is suspected to be the gunsmith responsible for one existing example from that time period converting a .36 cap and ball Manhattan to a .38 rimfire. #3 Blonide’s gun!  And I’m not kidding you when I say that Sergio Leone could have quite possibly read this! Thomas Cofers story is an interesting one and it’s been a real treat digging up history on this guy.

The R&D Cylinder (http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2563/rd8c.jpg)                                                         The Kirst Konverter (http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7396/kk1861pg.jpg)  

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8276/ndvd935.png)

Blondie’s one piece bore through cylinder

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7403/ndvd342.png)

Loading gate
#1- Page 57 of Remington Handguns by Charles Lee Karr, Jr. and Caroll Robbins Karr.  1948 Bonanza Books, New York
#2a- Page 143 - 45 of Confederate Handguns Cofer's First Cylinder Model (http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/9536/img0007lul.jpg) #2b-Page 140Confederate Handguns Cofer's Confederate Patent (http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/8873/img0006w.jpg)
#3- Page 144 of Confederate Handguns by William A. Albaugh, III Hugh Benet, Jr. Edward N. Simmons.  1963 Riling and Lentz, Philadelphia
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on August 21, 2009, 09:23:55 PM
ben james, my response is in blue:


The Remington, which was Angel Eyes gun, which even though, as mentioned in a previous thread, was a "cap and ball" gun, seems to be that it was meant to appear to be a cartridge conversion due to the cartridges in his belt loops - these could have been for his unidentified rifle I guess).
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7721/ndvd373.png)

I would suspect that they, and I know you don’t agree with me here, are for his Spencer or Ballard rifle, or quite possibly for his GBU special that he uses at the beginning of the movie, or, as you mentioned above, they could be for his “swap out” New Army Model.  "During the war some Remington’s were converted to cartridge and utilized the .46 caliber rimfire presumably with Smith and Wesson permission."#4

Individual gunsmiths did in fact make these conversions prior to factory conversions, but what cartridges were available for these conversions?

The first ones in calibers appropriate for use in conversions (large caliber that is, appropriate for Colt Army and the Remington New Model Army - erroneously referred to as the 1858 Model by some - 1858 was merely the patent date of the revolver - it was not produced until '63) would appear to be the .44 Henry.  The Henry was a rimfire cartridge made for the Henry rifle, predecessor of the Winchester lever actions.  Even though made for a rifle, for all practical purposes it is a handgun round.  As far as I am aware this is the only .44 caliber round which was in use at the time.  It could have been used in an 1860 Army or a Remington (although I've never seen any evidence that this specific cartridge was ver chambered in these guns).  Otherwise the cartridges for Angel Eyes gun would have to have been custom made which seems quite unlikely to me (not that it couldn't be done - just saying it doesn't fit his character).

As far as the 1851 Navy, I'm not aware of any production cartridge of the era that was produced in an appropriate caliber.  The first I know of is the .36 produced for the Thuer conversions of 1851s and '61s starting in '69.  Most of the conversions for Navies were done with .38 caliber rounds (.38 Short Colt, made specifically for conversions).  The cartridge used must be at least as big as the original .36 bore unless a completely new barrel as well as the cylinder were made to be mounted on the frame.  Traditionally barrels were just rebored and cylinders modified or replaced.  Other than the .44 Henry I'm only aware of .22 caliber rounds created by S&W for their Model No. 1 Revolver in '57.  After that other .22 rimfires were produced for other guns during the period.  It seems Blondie would have to had custom made ammo as well (again, I find it unlikely).  I does seem appropriate that he still had the loading lever attached as prior to the common production of cartridge firing guns, and the ammo for them, being able to switch to "cap & ball" would be very much wanted.

Does anyone happen to know of any .38 (or .36+) or any other .44 (+) ammo of the era that was in production?[/color]

All kinds...
The French .36 caliber Flobert which it’s smaller brother was the predecessor to the .22 caliber Smith and Wesson rimfire. The .41 caliber Derringer, .42 caliber cupfire, .36 and .44 caliber lipfire, .45 caliber teat fire, 9mm and 12mm pinfire, .44 caliber Ballard, .50 caliber Gallager, .36 and .50 caliber Maynard, .50 caliber Morse, .52 caliber Spencer, .54 caliber Burnside, .56 caliber Colt, .54 caliber Sharps & Hankins, and the .38 caliber Sharps.#5  All of these mentioned are metallic cartridges and were used during the war.  I’m sure there were others as well.

Someone mentioned that '51 Navies were smoothbore and '61s rifled.  Is that true?  Can anyone cite references?  What about the '60?  Just seems odd to me (and I really should know).

I think that it was me and it’s a huge mistake that needs fixed and I’ll go back and modify the post.  I have no idea what I was thinking when I posted that.  Must have been thinking of something else. I stand corrected.  

Oh yeah, someone was asking about a repro of Clint's "Man With No Name" conversion (might have been a while back).  They are available from Cimarron.  I'm not quite sure how true to the original they are, but look fantastic to me!  Here's a link to the gun on Cimarrons site:  [/color]
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9600/nonameconv.jpg)
http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Conversions/ManNo%20NameConv.htm

Just curious, but is the term "Golden Boy" actually a commonly used term for the Henry?  I've never heard that one.  "Yellow Boy" for the Winchester 1866, yes (however this term is a modern nickname not used in the "cowboy" era).[/color]

Not a commonly used term, just a nickname I came across for the brass version of the Henry and thought it was cool and threw it in there.

I believe it was D'Ambrosia who mentioned a Colt Model #3 2nd Model '86 SAA Peacemaker as used by Clint in one of his westerns.  Could someone please clarify specifically what this model is?  I've never heard of it and can find no refernce to it in any of my books.  Best as I can figure it may be a reference to the change from what is called the Blackpowder (which it is not) frame to the Pre-War frame, however this occurred in Late '91/early '92 not '86.  Really curious - educate me.

Looking back on the post it was hastily put together and very confusing indeed.  What I was referencing to was the fact the big bore trio had been completed in 1886 with the third big bore, the .38-40 Winchester..

Also there was a reference to a 2nd Model '77 .44 in Hang 'em High.  I'm not familiar with this gun either.  Anyone have more specific info?

Again, the post is poorly worded and what I should have said is that by 1877 the SAA was chambered for the second big bore with the .44-40 Winchester.
#4- Page 33 of Smith & Wesson The story of the Revolver by Martin Rywell 1953 Pioneer Press. Harriman, Tennessee
#5- A Handbook of Cilvil War Bullets and Cartridges by James E. Thomas & Dean Thomas 1996 Thomas Publications. Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on August 21, 2009, 10:55:15 PM

As far as the Thompson SMG goes, it was stated that Thompson developed the .45 ACP.  Did he assist John Browning in some way?

What was said was "Thompson was instrumental in developing the .45 caliber rimless cartridge".  

The Thompson and LaGarde test of 1904 determined that the new military caliber would be .45.  Without the governments need for a .45 caliber who’s to say if there would ever have been a 1911 ACP.  Browning was working on the .41 caliber Colt Automatic when the word came down from Thompson that the new military cartridge would be .45 caliber.  Therefore, with Thompson's request for bids on revolvers or automatics in .45 caliber, he most certainly would be instrumental in the development of the cartridge.

The only relation to Thompson & the .45 ACP I know of is that he chaired the Ordnance Board which approved its use for the military, and it while developing the Thompson that Auto Ordnance determined that the .45 ACP was the only appropriate round for use with the guns Blish lock mechanism (which of course is what the gun was chambered for).  

Also I believe it was stated that the .45 ACP was created in 1904.  My reference material only shows its arrival in 1911 along with the Colt Auto.

No, it was never stated that the .45 ACP was created in 1904.

It was derived from the .45 rimless cartridge developed for the Colt Model 1905 (1905-1911), however this was not actually the ACP round used in the 1911.  I'd really like to know more - if anyone can site references as well that would be great![/color]

Right! By Colt winning the contract for the new military sidearm it certainly would have an effect on the devoplment of the .45 rimless cartridge and certainly make Thomspon insturmental in it's development...

The majority of information I collected on the subject was taken with permission from this site.  I should have sited reference in the original post.

The Unofficial Tommy Gun Page (http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/)

OK, now Dirty Harry.  Has it been verified that Clint used a custom .44 mag developed for blanks (or that it even existed)?
Unsubstantiated rumors I've heard that a Model 57 .41 Mag was used makes sense to me as Hollywood did produce blanks that would work in this gun.  Making custom blanks seems less likely a scenario.[/color]

That’s total BS.  Props guns can be designed to fire blanks or they can be a real gun with modified ammo.  John Milius has an original from the movie and it is a model 29 .44 magnum.

The .44 Magnum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltBhm64WrQQ)

How 'bout that "Most powerful handgun" statement?  I'm no ballistics expert but have heard that up until that time the Colt Walker "cap 'n ball" (yup -Josie Wales) still packed more of a wallop.  Anyone know if that's true?

Well,  “power” is measured in muzzle energy.  The .44 magnum has a muzzle energy of 1,118 foot pounds.#6  The Walker Colt has a muzzle energy of around 500 foot pounds.  The Walker was the most powerful handgun in the world until the .357 Magnum came out in 1935.#7

Previously mentioned was that the Colt Baby Dragoon came out in '48.  Not to be picky, but I'm a stickler, it actually came out in '47.

What was said was: "Pocket and Belt revolvers with 3,4,5 and 6 inch barrels and all in .31 caliber started production in 1848.   My reference, A History of the Colt Revolver says they "were introduced around 1848.  I suppose they could have "come out" in 1847, however, no one classifys them as a '47.

I apologize if anyone finds this initial entry rather lengthy.  Just like to catch up to the current date.

I look forward to more Clint gun info!

Benjamin James
#6   King of the Magnums by John Taffin (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_167_28/ai_110457316/)
#7   Colt Walker wapedia (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Colt_Walker)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on August 22, 2009, 04:35:07 AM
Good to see D'Ambrosia back on patrol in this thread!  8)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on August 27, 2009, 06:21:12 PM
Here are some prime examples of a couple of non-factory cartridge conversions that still retain the loading lever.  The first being an example that would fire Henry flat nosed rimfire metallic cartridges.  The .44 is thought to have been converted in the mid 60’s and the .32 somewhere from mid to late 60’s.  

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4772/img0002rju.jpg)
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5599/imgauk.jpg)
#1



“Charles D. Leet of Springfield was one of the pioneer cartridge manufacturers.  Springfield directories indicate that Leet, in association with various others, engaged in the manufacture of cartridges in 1861 and continued for about fifteen years thereafter.  Leet cartridges were used at the government trials of the Colt Single action Army revolver in 1872.” #2  


#1 Page 133-134 of A History of The Colt Revolver by Charles T Haven and Frank A. Belden 1940 Bonanza Books New York
#2 Page 161 of Civil War Pistols-A Survey of the Handguns of the Civil War by John D. McAulay 1992 Andrew Mowbray Inc. Publishers  Lincoln, Rhode Island  
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on August 27, 2009, 06:33:06 PM
Very informative post, D'Amb ...

Quote
“Charles D. Leet of Springfield ...”

Leet, huh? Wonder if he made $1337 on those cartridges! ;)

(See this thread (http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=4382.0) if you don't get the reference.)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: palooka on September 10, 2009, 06:36:42 AM
An interesteing and extensive article about the guns of Josey Wales ..

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Outlaw_Josey_Wales%2C_The
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: palooka on September 10, 2009, 06:41:27 AM

This is the overview page on the same site for Clint Eastwood

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Clint_Eastwood

Clicking on the movie takes you to coverage of weapons in the film and clicking on the weapon shows where similar guns have been used on other productions.

One could spend quite a while browsing this website. Apologies if it has already been linked.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on September 10, 2009, 04:33:14 PM
An interesteing and extensive article about the guns of Josey Wales ..

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Outlaw_Josey_Wales%2C_The

This is the overview page on the same site for Clint Eastwood

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Clint_Eastwood

Clicking on the movie takes you to coverage of weapons in the film and clicking on the weapon shows where similar guns have been used on other productions.

One could spend quite a while browsing this website. Apologies if it has already been linked.

Wow ... what a fabulous site. The information is truly encyclopedic! Thanks for the links, Palooka!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: D'Ambrosia on September 10, 2009, 07:33:29 PM
Yeah, great info there.  Thanks palooka!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on September 10, 2009, 07:37:43 PM
It appears to be a cross between the Internet Movie Database and Wikipedia, but for firearms in the movies. (Thus the name, Internet Movie Firearms Database, or IMFDB.org.)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: icnmedia on September 22, 2010, 01:39:31 PM
D'ambrosia, I sure did see 'ambush at cimmaron pass', long time ago. It starred B actor scott brady and clint playing second fiddle, like he did in Rawhide.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: MARSHALL JIM DUNCAN on March 30, 2011, 06:43:54 PM
http://www.nramuseum.com/search.aspx?s=dirty%20harry#

Here is a link to the NRA National Firearms Museum and the S&W Model 29's used in the Dirty Harry movies on exhibit there.  I haven't noticed this in the forums anywhere (my apologies if I missed it) and thought it might be of interest to some.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on March 30, 2011, 09:29:52 PM
^ Thanks, Marshall. The site also has several other firearms from Eastwood movies that seem to be currently on exhibit at the museum. Go to "William B. Ruger Special Exhibits":

http://www.nramuseum.com/the-museum/the-galleries/william-b-ruger-special-exhibits.aspx

... and check Case 1 (Letters from Iwo Jima and a replica Medal of Honor from Heartbreak Ridge), Case 3 (Gran Torino), Case 6 (Tightrope, as well as the Dirty Harry weapons referenced above), Case 8 (Pale Rider, The Outlaw Josey Wales), and Case 9 (Joe Kidd).
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: WildTrout on May 06, 2011, 02:37:28 PM
I would have sworn Clint's gun in "For a Few Dollars More" had a cobra on it.  I haven't seen it in a while though.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on May 06, 2011, 06:35:42 PM
I would have sworn Clint's gun in "For a Few Dollars More" had a cobra on it.  I haven't seen it in a while though.

It's a ratttlesnake. See this post:

http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=4347.msg12597#msg12597
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: sqlartist on September 26, 2011, 10:29:10 AM
I brought my dad a black power version of either the gun he used in Pale rider or Outlaw Josey Wales.

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll176/sqlartist/Dad-NavyColt2.jpg)

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll176/sqlartist/Dad-NavyColt.jpg)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on September 26, 2011, 09:14:19 PM
It looks like the Pale Rider gun, sqlartist ...

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/PRgun2.JPG)

The large revolver carried by Preacher is  a Remington New Model Army ... a .44 cal. percussion revolver that was in production from 1863 to 1875. This is the gun that he reloads (after dispatching Stockburn's deputies) by replacing the cylinder, in order to fire six shots into Stockburn (Russell).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_1858
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: TWOMULES on October 14, 2011, 05:30:07 AM
I have just added a 1851 Navy Colt  to my small gun collection. I am not sure but it looks like the one Blondy uses in The Good the Bad and the Ugly.  :)

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/GBUGun1.JPG) (http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af323/TWOMULES/DSCI0835.jpg?t=1318186586)

(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af323/TWOMULES/DSCI0830.jpg?t=1318186736)   (http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af323/TWOMULES/DSCI0831.jpg?t=1318186658)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Aline on October 14, 2011, 01:09:24 PM
It's very nice, 2M! O0 It looks heavy :o
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: TWOMULES on October 15, 2011, 03:36:13 AM
It's very nice, 2M! O0 It looks heavy :o

Thanks, Aline. :) You are right it is quite heavy.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Schofield Kid on October 15, 2011, 03:40:04 AM
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af323/TWOMULES/DSCI0830.jpg?t=1318186736)   (http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af323/TWOMULES/DSCI0831.jpg?t=1318186658)

I think we've finally found who is actually holding the gun during the credits of Magnum Force!!  :D
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: TWOMULES on October 15, 2011, 03:44:01 AM
How can you tell? :D ;D
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Schofield Kid on October 15, 2011, 03:53:29 AM
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af323/TWOMULES/DSCI0830.jpg?t=1318186736)   (http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af323/TWOMULES/DSCI0831.jpg?t=1318186658)

(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9575/mfhand.png)

 :D
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: TWOMULES on October 15, 2011, 04:04:26 AM
 ;D That's amazing, look at my little finger. :o
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: fuel on January 06, 2012, 12:53:43 PM
Ok, here's my question. In Pale Rider, the Preacher of course uses the Remington New Army pistol with interchangable cylinders. But I believe he may also be using another revolver, and in two different scenes(maybe three).
This would be the gun he uses to rescue young Megan from Josh at the La Hood ming camp. Take a look at that pistol. It is noticably smaller than the Remington. Shorter barrel, smaller frame, etc.

Then in the ending scene, the Preacher pulls a gun from his waistband to fire the final headshot at Marshall Stockburn.
Again, it does not appear to be a Remington New Army. We also see a second revolver earlier when the Preacher retrieves his guns from the bank safe deposit box.
So....any quesses as to what that pistol may be? I have no clue myself.

(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5279/clintgun3.jpg)

(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6990/clintgun.jpg)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on January 06, 2012, 09:54:46 PM
Hi, fuel ... According to the following post, the small revolver is a modified 1858 Remington Pocket Pistol. Unfortunately, the pictures identified as the 1858 Remington Pocket Pistol and the "actual rig" Clint wore are no longer showing.

... The small pistol that Clint carried in Pale Rider was not a Baby Dragoon, which has a square trigger guard.
(http://www.thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/images/pistol_471.jpg)
 The small pistol he carried was a modified 1858 Rem Pocket Pistol I posted in my first post.

When I first seen the movie I thought it was a 1849 Pocket Pistol .  It does not match if you compare the system under the barrel. That is the same system found on the large model just at a reduced size on the Pocket Pistol. Also look at the pistol grip area and the classic Remington top strap above the cylinder.

-1849 Pocket Pistol-
(http://a1460.g.akamai.net/f/1460/1339/6h/www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Pod/00/32/35/p003235sq01.jpg)

-1858- Rem Pocket Pistol
(http://www.thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/images/pistol_435.jpg)

-Actual rig he wore-
(http://www.alliancelink.com/users/frontier/srrs/00image/gallery/clint03.jpg)

Conclusion is a modified 1858 Rem Pocket Pistol.

This conclusion is confirmed by the Internet Movie Firearms Database:

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Pale_Rider

Quote
Preacher (Clint Eastwood) uses a Remington 1858 Pocket .31 caliber as a backup, carrying it stuck into his belt. The gun used has had a regular trigger with trigger-guard fitted in place of factory stud-trigger. Like all the other guns in the film, it is converted to fire metallic cartridges.

(http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/thumb/9/9b/Rem58Pocket.jpg/400px-Rem58Pocket.jpg)
Remington 1858 Pocket Percussion - .31 Caliber.

(http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/thumb/0/07/PRRem58pocket-1.jpg/600px-PRRem58pocket-1.jpg)
Preacher's Remington 1858 Pocket stuck in his belt.

(http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/thumb/b/b0/PRRem58pocket-2.jpg/600px-PRRem58pocket-2.jpg)
A closer shot of the Remington Pocket stuck in Preacher's belt as he draws his full sized Remington on Stockburn (John Russell).
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: fuel on January 07, 2012, 03:02:09 PM
Hi, fuel ... According to the following post, the small revolver is a modified 1858 Remington Pocket Pistol. Unfortunately, the pictures identified as the 1858 Remington Pocket Pistol and the "actual rig" Clint wore are no longer showing.
Thanks, KC. I missed that post. Certainly answers my question. An 1858 Remington pocket pistol, in .31 calibur? Now that is collectors piece!
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: rojblake on January 16, 2012, 06:58:46 PM
For those who are interested, & have the funds, the man with no name pistol reproduction is available with or without snake

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Conversions/ManNo%20NameConv.htm

Interesting bit of trivia, the same snake inlay was on Jim West's pistol in the TV series Wild Wild West.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Aim on February 15, 2012, 04:05:06 AM
I have just added a 1851 Navy Colt  to my small gun collection. I am not sure but it looks like the one Blondy uses in The Good the Bad and the Ugly.  :)

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/GBUGun1.JPG) (http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af323/TWOMULES/DSCI0835.jpg?t=1318186586)

(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af323/TWOMULES/DSCI0830.jpg?t=1318186736)   (http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af323/TWOMULES/DSCI0831.jpg?t=1318186658)

I have had some puzzlement about Blondie's gun. I am the happy owner of a repro 1851 Navy Colt in 44 rather than the historically correct 36. It is a sweet shooting gun even with a full maximum 40 grain powder charge.

The caps of Blondie's gun raise some questions.

The octagonal barrel is unmistakenly 51 navy. However, the cylinder on Blondie's gun looks longer. And the cylinder lacks the step, or, rebate, that my modern repro 44 has. To the best of my knowledge  ::) the 51 Navy was never made by Colt in 44 and so never had a non-straight cylinder. Of course, my vaunted repro faux Navy has a stepped frame to fit the stepped cylinder.

If I was a bounty hunter in about 1861 or 1862, I would not settle for a 36 when a 44 on the same gun frame would actually be a few ounces lighter and  somewhat more powerful in knock-down ability.

The Dragoon was made from 1848 in 44, and had a straight cylinder and frame.

So, I am entertaining the idea that Blondie's gun was, for whatever reason, a 3rd model Dragoon (round trigger guard) frame , with, for whatever reason, a Navy barrel bored out to 44 (or thereabouts), and a custom gunsmith cylinder  to accommodate one of the 44 (or thereabouts) cartridges extant in the early 60s.

Not a Walker frame? Well, the Walkers all had square back trigger guards, as did the Dragoon 1st and 2nd Models. Besides, since there were only 1100 Walkers made, and they had a deserved reputation for blowing up and taking the shooter's hand clean off, they were both hard to come across and perceived as dangerous to use.

I'm having a persistent fantasy about about obtaining a safe repro Walker and transplanting my beautiful octagonal Navy barrel onto the beautiful square trigger guard Walker frame.  :D
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on February 15, 2012, 07:53:32 PM
The "deserved reputation" of the Walker Colt is alluded to in Unforgiven. ;)

D'Ambrosia, who started this thread, had a detailed post about Blondie's gun back on the first page; did you see that?

http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=4347.msg12629#msg12629
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Aim on February 16, 2012, 01:02:51 AM
The "deserved reputation" of the Walker Colt is alluded to in Unforgiven. ;)

D'Ambrosia, who started this thread, had a detailed post about Blondie's gun back on the first page; did you see that?

http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=4347.msg12629#msg12629

The "deserved reputation" is historical fact. The Walker failures are attributed to manufacturing tolerances being exceeded leaving some cylinder's chamber walls too thin, and, to faulty heat-treating of the cylinders. It was a somewhat regular thing for company commanders to ship the blown out Walkers back to Colt for repair. I have fired 40 grains  in my 51 Navy and it is quite a show. I reckon 60 grains full load in a Walker is something to fear if it blows out (the blowout could perhaps go into an adjacent chamber or chambers and lead to a fearsome chain fire). I figure that the present day repro Walkers are made carefully enough to be safe. The Walker failures prompted the Army and Colt to make the Dragoon in 1848 which had a smaller max charge of only  :o  50 grains and presumably had much improved manufacturing methods. Also...the Walker had an inept loading rod hold-up which often let the loading rod drop down and jam the gun. Not good luck at all in a rapid fire combat situation.

Thanks for the alert on the gun post. As a matter of fact it is that very post that impressed me so much that I wanted to join when I read it about a week or two ago after stumbling over this Forum by pure luck.

There are two concurrent lines of thought about historical accuracy in GBU.

1...The gun actually used may not be exactly historically accurate: The repro gun maker may indeed have provided an anachronism for various reasons. The D'ambrosia pic looks like it has a straight cylinder and frame cutout which would be accurate for the original Navy in its 36 caliber. And then the custom conversion cylinder could have been easily conformed to readily available modern 38 special cartridges (movie blanks of course). And....   

2...A real bounty hunter in 1862 would, in my opinion (yeah I have an opinion, Clint himself said so!  ;D) have chosen no smaller gun than a 44 for its superior knockdown. So, seeing a Colt in Blondie's hand, I figure that a real Blondie would have had a Walker, a Dragoon, or a really hot-rodded customized Navy. A real Blondie would have shied away from the Walker on its aforementioned several counts. A Dragoon would have appealed with its large 50 grain full charge. And a clever shootist would have realized that a bored out Navy barrel would weigh a few ounces less than the Dragoon barrel. You never know when the smallest advantage might mean the difference between success and failure. So, a Dragoon frame with a Dragoon sized cylinder and a grafted on Navy barrel bored out to 44 would provide a maxxed out firepower and also would match the pic (which looks to me to have a cylinder longer than a regular Navy cylinder.) Historically, in 1862 a real Blondie would have had better luck acquiring 44 cartridges than 36 Specials  ;D. And when he could not find cartridges, he could pop in the nice big 50 grain standard Dragoon cylinder.

Something thing that has impressed me generally in CE westerns, and especially in Josey Wales and in Unforgiven is the attention to every detail of the movie shoot so that they are genuine "period-pieces". It is very easy to be transported in the imagination to have a sense of actually living in 1862 or whatever year and experience the same cold or rain or lack of every modern convenience, in a CE western. Film-making at its best.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on February 16, 2012, 07:55:31 AM
Remember that (unlike Manco) Blondie may not even be a "real" bounty hunter ... the only bounties we ever see him collect are the ones on Tuco, which he then proceeds to divvy up with the culprit, after freeing him with some spectacular rifle shooting. And later on, he's working the same scam with "Shorty" when Tuco captures him.

But that's a great post ...  D'Ambrosia isn't around much any more, so maybe you could take over as our resident gun expert.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Aim on February 17, 2012, 02:12:46 AM
KC...You made a very good point about the movie not actually making Blondie a full blooded bounty hunter per se. I had in mind to say that he was in some line of work in which it seemed to be advantageous to carry some iron and be able to outshoot some people who kept on showing up trying to shoot him first. Although, as a number of very interesting Threads and posts round here have pointed out, the Trilogy does seem to hint that Blondie is the younger Manco and Joe who, in the plot-line later films, was a bone fide bounty hunter / mercenary gunfighter. Like Paladin  :D.

In the schema of the film GBU without my exaggerated speculation, I stand by my opinion and my other thing, too, that Blondie would have been thoughtful to have weaponry that he could be confident in to give him an edge when the adversaries came a-shooting. I have been noticing  ;) that a lot of them kept on trying to do that.

About that expert thing. You are a very generous (and optimistic) person. But, a man has got to know his limitations  8). Somewhere on the way to becoming the old worn out man that I am, I somehow learned something . I learned just how little I have learned. I am always glad to share any knowledge that I happen to have with anyone else to help them out. But to be in the limelight as some kind of an acclaimed "expert" is a responsibility that I am shy about. Just think of me as a guy who has learned a little bit about a gun or two and who will always be glad to try to helpfully contribute to a discussion if I can.  
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: lilirishgrl on February 23, 2012, 10:03:29 PM
Hi what size ammo does this gun use and does it have a big kick to it .Just wondering if a little lady like my self could
handle. :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: rojblake on February 24, 2012, 02:11:01 AM
Just a bit of historical interjection here...James Butler Hickock (AKA Wild Bill or Duck Bill) carried & used the Navy .36's for the majority of his career. He was deadly accurate & seems not to have had a desire for the .44's.

Perhaps the reduced recoil improved his shooting accuracy? Also the reduced weight might have been better for "draw" situations (Although Wild Bill was not noted for being fast)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: rojblake on February 25, 2012, 04:24:04 PM
Quote
Something thing that has impressed me generally in CE westerns, and especially in Josey Wales and in Unforgiven is the attention to every detail of the movie shoot so that they are genuine "period-pieces". It is very easy to be transported in the imagination to have a sense of actually living in 1862 or whatever year and experience the same cold or rain or lack of every modern convenience, in a CE western. Film-making at its best.

I hadn't caught this before, & I feel the need to interject. The Outlaw Josey Wales is my favorite Clint western, but the firearms used are often highly inaccurate for the period.

Forgiving some of the cartridge conversions (Like Clint's Walkers) that were simply changed cylinders etc. Many of the weapons used were absolutely WRONG!

The year would have been 1865-66 when the ambush occures & Josey's unit is wiped out..before that Josey pulls a Richards-Mason 1860 army conversion that wouldn't exist until 1872-73. (Probably used to save reloading/shooting time for the practice sequence). The problem is that the same & similar conversions show up in the hands of at least half a dozen characters in the film..Including Lone Watie & Moonlight (Not peripheral characters by any means).

Josey's rifle is an 1874 Sharps, a cartridge model that wouldn't exist for almost a decade (The Sharps rifle did exist of course but as a cap & ball weapon).

Unforgiven is much more historically accurate; but as it was set in a later time period the firearms & their replicas are much more readily available..the stand out for me was the Spencer rifle..when Unforgiven was made the replica Schofield had recently been offered as a replica..but not the Spencer (it is now though).
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: rojblake on February 25, 2012, 04:50:05 PM
Just skimmed some of GBU, Eli has a '51 Navy unconverted..uses percussion caps.

Lee Van Cleef is using an 1858 Remington with a drop-in conversion Cylinder (If you watch the finale this is very clear..the "nipples" aren't pronounced enough to hold caps).

Clint is using an 1851 Colt Navy conversion, in at least 1 scene you see the loading gate, & in the finale the rear of the cylinder is visible & it is flush; probably chambered in .38 Long Colt.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Aim on February 29, 2012, 12:05:27 AM
Hi what size ammo does this gun use and does it have a big kick to it .Just wondering if a little lady like my self could
handle. :)

What gun is "this gun"?

And how big of a "little lady" are you? Are you an experienced shooter, or, have you never fired a pistol before?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Aim on February 29, 2012, 12:53:48 AM
Just a bit of historical interjection here...James Butler Hickock (AKA Wild Bill or Duck Bill) carried & used the Navy .36's for the majority of his career. He was deadly accurate & seems not to have had a desire for the .44's.

Perhaps the reduced recoil improved his shooting accuracy? Also the reduced weight might have been better for "draw" situations (Although Wild Bill was not noted for being fast)

Have you ever fired an 1851 Navy Colt? Or any other pistol for that matter? I am not being contentious, I am just wanting to know what your shooting background is, to make any further gun discussion easier for both of us.

The lower recoil of a black powder gun compared to a gun using modern smokeless propellant is remarkable noticeable. Long ago and far away, I took several guns with me to a safe and legal shooting place to try them out in a kind of a comparison situation. At that particular time, long ago and far away, this man was about 180, 5-10, and in quite good physical condition (for a non-Schwartzeneger body double).

1. a repro 1851 Navy Colt in anachronistic 44 caliber

2. a Ruger Super Blackhawk (the other world's most powerful handgun, a 44 magnum)

3. a Ruger semi automatic (the Ruger that looks like a Luger) in 22 Long Rifle

The sweet little Ruger "Luger" had practically no recoil. Very easy to hold on target.

The 1851 Navy Colt 44 was charged with 20 grains, 30 grains, and the maximum possible 40 grains of black powder. There was very little recoil. With a one hand grip it was very easy to hold the gun on target. I was pleasantly surprised to see that I could actually see the ball in flight. I had first noticed such a thing when I was about ten and my Daddy was teaching me to shoot his 22 Short bolt action rifle. It was genuinely a surprise to see a bullet in flight.

The Ruger Super Blackhawk. I only shot 44 Specials. Recoil was unmanageable with one hand grip or two. The barrel jumped up 6 inches or more, and 3 or inches to my right.  The Beast even with only Specials, not Magnums.

The recoil that is felt from a black powder shot is totally different from that of a modern smokeless powder shot. It is fact of chemistry that the pressure rise of modern powder is something like 5 or 10 ten times as fast; the Lord blessed me at birth with reflexes of a "natural" athlete, so I am able to detect the subtle yet remarkable difference between the quickness of the two kinds of shots.

It is entirely possible that a "professional" gunfighter in the Old West would have chosen the 36 caliber gun as his best weapon. However, from my own personal experience, a 44 caliber pistol of the weight of a Navy Colt or more, would have had so little recoil problem that recoil would have been no factor. In my opinion the substantially greater knock down power of a 44 would have been the choice. I would rather be able to knock down an assailant with one shot from my 44 than to have to rely on two shots from a 36.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Aim on February 29, 2012, 01:39:48 AM
I hadn't caught this before, & I feel the need to interject. The Outlaw Josey Wales is my favorite Clint western, but the firearms used are often highly inaccurate for the period.

Forgiving some of the cartridge conversions (Like Clint's Walkers) that were simply changed cylinders etc. Many of the weapons used were absolutely WRONG!

The year would have been 1865-66 when the ambush occures & Josey's unit is wiped out..before that Josey pulls a Richards-Mason 1860 army conversion that wouldn't exist until 1872-73. (Probably used to save reloading/shooting time for the practice sequence). The problem is that the same & similar conversions show up in the hands of at least half a dozen characters in the film..Including Lone Watie & Moonlight (Not peripheral characters by any means).

Josey's rifle is an 1874 Sharps, a cartridge model that wouldn't exist for almost a decade (The Sharps rifle did exist of course but as a cap & ball weapon).

Unforgiven is much more historically accurate; but as it was set in a later time period the firearms & their replicas are much more readily available..the stand out for me was the Spencer rifle..when Unforgiven was made the replica Schofield had recently been offered as a replica..but not the Spencer (it is now though).



The year of the massacre in Josey Wales is debateable. Do not bet your net worth on 65-66. It is not Josey's unit, it is Fletcher's unit. The use of the Gatling Gun makes it a good bit later than 66. You are obviously overlooking the fact that Josey Wales was an OUTLAW. Every time that he was assaulted by a contingent of the US Army and killed them all, he had his choice as a looter to pick up whatever new gun he found off of the dead colonels and generals,  who, SURPRISe, were carrying the latest and best guns they could requisition or personally afford to buy. Colonels and generals carrying Walkers, Dragoons, Whatevers, with conversion cylinders were entirely plausible in 66 or 70 or whatever year.    

My comments re the "period piece" quality of the mature CE films were the result of my appreciation of the over-all quality of the films and my visceral reaction and enjoyment. I was not thinking that some nit picker might bend over backward to try to convince me that my beloved mature CE films are really junks.

I suggest that you thoroughly and accurately research the subject of the dates of widely known cartridge conversions and related US patents and the availibility of manufactured cartridges in the era immediately preceding and during the Civil War. I suspect that you are in for some surprises.  

And lastly, I am already aware of the apparent anachronisms of the guns in JW. I am not blind and watching the film in Braille. Praise the Lord for my good sight.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on February 29, 2012, 02:28:20 AM
Gentlemen, please do try to keep it civil. Comment on the facts of the guns in Clint's films, but please don't start sniping at your fellow Eastwood fans! It's plain that you both love these films, regardless of what quibbles you might have with the guns in them.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: rojblake on February 29, 2012, 05:32:31 AM
I was not trying to be offensive, the dates & nature of the firearms in question are accurate. The outlaw Josey Wales would have been just after the war..this is made clear by such lines as the reference to General Joe Shelby not having surrenderd & having gone south.

I in no way suggest that the inaccuracies in firearms should detract from the film; the pistol that Josey pulls from his burned out home is either before or during the war & is an anachronism. The Senator & the Redlags also serve to date the film.

Do not blame me for the inaccuracies, I merely make you aware of them. Historically accurate films were not the demand in 1976 that they are today.

I refer to it as Josey's unit because he belonged to it, just as a man in the 82nd Airborne might refer to it a "his unit" when asked about it; certainly a private, corporal, Sergeant, etc. are not in command but might claim it as "their unit". Strictly speaking it was "Bloody Bill" Anderson's unit until his death & from the footage on screen it looked as though the two men became close.

As to the .44 vs. .36, that is a personal preference; I was alluding to the FACT that Hickock was known to carry .36's & was widley regarded as a hunter & killer of men.

(I will note that in Captain Marcy's "Prairie Traveller" he recommended the Army .44 because of its penetration value against a bear. The .36 didn't get through the fur coat; hardly a huge concern when shooting at a man.)

The Gatling gun was patented in 1862 & saw limited use during the war..although it was not "officially" adopted by the US Army until 1866, given the presense of a US Senator the date of 1865-66 is entirely plausible.

As to my firearms knowledge, I have fired revolvers, semi-autos, shot guns, rifles, pumps, levers, etc. I have less knowledge of black powder arms but have fired some, I own a 5.5" barrel 1860 Army. I also have a diploma in Gunsmithing from the Pennsylvania Gunsmith School (not a correspondence course).
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Aim on March 03, 2012, 12:59:30 AM
Hi what size ammo does this gun use and does it have a big kick to it .Just wondering if a little lady like my self could
handle. :)

When I responded to your post a few days ago I was enjoying one of my 'brain-in-neutral" moments. Of course you must have been talking about the 1851 Navy Colt that has been prominent in the Thread for a number of posts.

The gun is offered as a modern reproduction by several manufacturers and suppliers. The original authentic gun from 1851 was made in only 36 caliber, equivalent to the modern 38 caliber. The reproductions are offered in either 36 or 44 caliber. They don't use ammo per se, because they cap and ball guns. They can be loaded with either round lead balls or with conical lead bullets packed down against loose black powder first poured into the cylinder chamber.

Several manufacturers sell conversion cylinders which take the place  of the cap and ball cylinder and allow the use of metal cartridges similar to commonplace modern ammo. If you buy a reproduction Navy Colt in the authentic 36 caliber then with a conversion cylinder, you could load and shoot 38 caliber cartridges. BUT! Manufacturers of conversion cylinders demand that you use ONLY cartridges loaded with black powder. the reason they give is that modern smokeless powder causes pressure higher than the gun is designed to tolerate. The good news is that black powder cartridges are widely available at prices not a whole lot different than regular ammo cost.

And, as you would suppose, the power and recoil of a black powder cartridge is just about exactly the same as if you fire a cap and ball with the same size powder charge.

So, if you want the experience of shooting Blondie's gun, you can do it the better way of buying a gun and a conversion cylinder. A conversion will cost double or more than only the reproduction cap and ball version. However, if you are not already a somewhat experienced shooter, you should avoid the complication and inherent danger of cap and ball. There are definite serious dangers in shooting cap and ball that are practically non existent with cartridges.

Now, can a tiny lady shoot a Navy Colt? From my personal experience shooting my own 44 caliber Navy Colt I would say that the comparatively gentle recoil of black powder compared to modern smokeless powder should allow even fairly small and light shooters to enjoy one of these old guns. As I said in one of my previous posts, the recoil of my Navy with a max charge was about the same as my Ruger "Luger" with 22 Long Rifles. So, if you could somehow test shoot a gun with 22 LR ammo you would would feel about the same amount of recoil. And, if you were shooting a cap and ball cylinder (I HIGHLY recommend you either be already an experienced shooter, or, find a shooting buddy that knows cap and ball), you could start with a really light charge of say 15 grains and work your way up.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Aim on March 03, 2012, 11:08:55 PM
Thinking more about a little lady shooting a 1851 Navy Colt....If a shooter is concerned about recoil, my thought is the best position is to hold your arm pretty much fully extended with your hand, arm, and shoulder muscles tensed as solid as possible just before pulling the trigger. Since an extended arm has less leverage, the weight of the gun comes into play. A Navy Colt weighs, loaded, just under about 3 pounds. So a small and light shooter, even using a two hand grip, should figure out if holding 3 pounds at arm's length is going to be a problem. Of course, nobody says you can't sit down and rest  the gun on a table top..."professional" shooters in competition do it that way. Or stand and rest the gun on a camera tripod or something like that.

Other Clint guns (in westerns) include the 1860 Army Colt and the Walker Colt from Josey Wales; the Army weighs very close to the same as the Navy. But the Walker Colt is a beast...about 16 inches long with its 9-1/2" barrel and weighing just a little less than 5 pounds loaded. Not a typo, five pounds. FIVE pounds  :o.

Pale Rider and Unforgiven had Clint guns (pistols) of a weight just about the same as the Navy and Army Colts.

All of the Clint pistols from the spaghetti westerns, Drifter, Josey Wales, Pale Rider, and Unforgiven are available from several manufacturers and retailers and there are several different conversion cylinders and black powder cartridges widely available for all those Clint guns.     
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Aim on March 03, 2012, 11:23:18 PM
Thinking more about a little lady shooting a 1851 Navy Colt....If a shooter is concerned about recoil, my thought is the best position is to hold your arm pretty much fully extended with your hand, arm, and shoulder muscles tensed as solid as possible just before pulling the trigger. Since an extended arm has less leverage, the weight of the gun comes into play. A Navy Colt weighs, loaded, just under about 3 pounds. So a small and light shooter, even using a two hand grip, should figure out if holding 3 pounds at arm's length is going to be a problem. Of course, nobody says you can't sit down and rest  the gun on a table top..."professional" shooters in competition do it that way. Or stand and rest the gun on a camera tripod or something like that.

Other Clint guns (in westerns) include the 1860 Army Colt and the Walker Colt from Josey Wales; the Army weighs very close to the same as the Navy. But the Walker Colt is a beast...about 16 inches long with its 9-1/2" barrel and weighing just a little less than 5 pounds loaded. Not a typo, five pounds. FIVE pounds  :o.

Pale Rider and Unforgiven had Clint guns (pistols) of a weight just about the same as the Navy and Army Colts. All of the Clint guns I've brought up here are in this afterthought are 44 caliber and, with the exception of the Walker, have the same recoil characteristics as I have described for the Navy Colt. The Walker has a max powder charge that is between 1.5 and 2 times the max load of the others. I have never fired a Walker and so do not personally know what its recoil is like. However, with its weight AND its powder charge being increased about the same 1.5/2X factor, its recoil into the hand of the shooter should be felt as just about the same as the Navy Colt.

In Josey Wales the grimace on Eastwood's face may not have been good acting. It may have simply been Clint's real reaction to having to hold up and wave around 2 guns weighing 5 pounds each!  

All of the Clint pistols from the spaghetti westerns, Drifter, Josey Wales, Pale Rider, and Unforgiven are available from several manufacturers and retailers and there are several different conversion cylinders and black powder cartridges widely available for all those Clint guns.    

OOPS.

I meant to edit my post but seem to have pressed the wrong button and made this additional post.

How to fix it?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Schofield Kid on March 03, 2012, 11:37:38 PM
OOPS.

I meant to edit my post but seem to have pressed the wrong button and made this additional post.

How to fix it?

Just click modify on the original post and make your changes in that and I'll remove the double post plus this one. :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: rojblake on March 04, 2012, 01:37:10 AM
IF weight & size are a concern there are also the various "police" models which have shorter barrels which obviously weigh less the 1862 is modeled on the 1860 Army but is chambered in .36 (same as the 1851 Navy) but is smaller, it also holds only 5 shots.

My preference is for the full-size 1860 Army (albeit with a shorter barrel), both because of the increased "stopping power" & because I find the Navy grip a little small.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Aim on March 04, 2012, 09:14:52 PM
IF weight & size are a concern there are also the various "police" models which have shorter barrels which obviously weigh less the 1862 is modeled on the 1860 Army but is chambered in .36 (same as the 1851 Navy) but is smaller, it also holds only 5 shots.

My preference is for the full-size 1860 Army (albeit with a shorter barrel), both because of the increased "stopping power" & because I find the Navy grip a little small.


An excellent observation. It was a surprise to me to discover that in 1851 the average American male was about 5'- 6" height compared to about 6'-o" nowadays, and of course in proportion; the average male hand in 1851 was smaller. Meaning that in 1851 the Navy grip was a handful, whereas now it is on the small side. The larger grip of the 1860 probably was due to the realization that , in a rapid fire situation, the best way to quickly cock the hammer the next time is to position the hand lower on the grip. That gives the thumb more room after the first shot recoil has rolled the gun down into the valley between the thumb and first finger. With the hand positioned lower, it was sensible to make the handle longer.

My own personal preference in regular slow target shooting is to place my hand as high as possible on the grip. This is because I have the most control of the gun even if I am somehow surprised by the amount of recoil. I have always felt like it would be bad luck to drop my gun even when I am not in a shootout at high noon.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: rojblake on March 10, 2012, 07:19:46 AM
Man With No Aim & I have been discussing Lee Van Cleef's gun from GBU, over on the Unforgiven page.

My contention is that Cleef is carrying an 1858 Remington New Army with a cylinder converted to use cartridges.

(http://www.alliancelink.com/srrs/00image/gallery/08.jpg)
This is an image of an R&D Conversion Cylinder; the rear plate of the cylinder is removable to allow the cartridges to be inserted. When in use the plate makes the culinder look solid & flush..
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: rojblake on March 10, 2012, 07:24:24 AM
(http://image.toutlecine.com/photos/b/o/n/bon-la-brute-et-le-truand-1966-03-g.jpg)

(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/[email protected]@._V1._SX400_SY549_.jpg)

The pistol is much easier to make out here. The loading lever of the Remington is pretty distinctive, as is the grip design.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: The Man With No Aim on April 12, 2012, 01:57:20 AM
My dear rojblake, you are barking up the wrong tree. I do not come into internet sites looking for fights. If you are, I am going to disappoint you. After this post, I have nothing more to say to you about LVC's pistol.

You are either missing the point, or are setting up a straw man.

You might be missing the point. My point was that, in the original photos , in this "discussion", I could not make out a break line at the rear of the cylinder. Even a poor reader should have noticed that. You may not be aware that, even decades ago, many times the cheapest "prop" was most often used in film scenes not requiring a gun be fired. The cheapest prop would have been a plastic replica or a reproduction gun without a conversion cylinder. Even decades ago, as it is today, the cost of a conversion cylinder is approximately equal to the original raw cost of the reproduction gun in cap-and-ball configuration. So if LVC were holding a converted gun it represented a total cost about double the raw cost of the original cap-and-ball gun, or much more if the film crew had to hire a machinist to custom make several one-off cylinders. So, it is most likely that LVC was holding an unconverted gun or a plastic gun in that specific photo.

My decisive clue, as I plainly wrote, was that I could not see a break line.

It is great fun to get on a site like this one and exchange positive ideas about things that we all commonly enjoy. It is a downer to be assaulted and baited into a pointless argument. It ain't happening. I have no more to say about the Remi identity of the gun or about whether or not I can seen a break line on my miniature computer screen.   
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: rojblake on April 12, 2012, 04:48:10 AM
I wasn't looking for a fight, just pointing out a few things that I noticed. You may be right that the pistol may have been plastic or whatever. The point that I WAS making was that the handgun in question is/was quite obviously a Remington 1858.

I have watched the end sequence very closely & the rear of the gun is very visible; the reason that I believe it to be a conversion is because the cut-outs for the nipples are very off. In my opinion that leads to it being a conversion because it is no longer a percussion pistol (no caps, etc.)...I would also point out that movie makers & prop departments back then made quite a few non-period pieces for conveinience.

In The Outlaw Josey Wales for example Clint's Walker colts, in several scenes, have obviously been modified to fire cartridges (& at that time I don't think such things were being done for the general public)

I was trying to answer a question, point of contention, sorry if doing so offended.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Savvy Jack on June 28, 2013, 09:45:40 PM
Joe Kidd 

   

(http://img191.exs.cx/img191/3990/jk17kz.jpg)
Hard to say what make the shotgun is.  There were several American companies of the day but like I always say a shotgun is a shotgun.  A shotgun shell, for those of you that don’t know, is usually comprised of shot, or little BB's or ball bearings, that when fired from the gun spread out in great diameter.  The further away from the barrel the “shot” fired the larger the pattern of shot spreads.  That’s why anyone with a shotgun can be an effective foe.  You don’t necessarily have to be a good shot to get results with a shotgun.
(http://img191.exs.cx/img191/3373/jk25xf.jpg)

Here we see Joe with a 12 gauge Coach Gun...

The Coach gun was a double barrel shotgun that became popular with stagecoach drivers and guards, hence the name. Coach guns are scaled down in barrel length for easy handling and compactness usually around 20 inches, (36 overall).  More than likely always a 12 gauge, (sometimes 10) to get more bang for the buck.  Weighting around 9 pounds the gun was a crack open breechloader with side-by-side barrels.  The “Double Barrel” could never jam and it’s two external hammers, or rabbit ears, and double triggers made it relatively safe from accidental discharge thus requiring no safety.  Virtually indestructible and capable of firing under the most extreme conditions the gun could be reliable even if grossly soiled or battered around.  The most Important aspect was to keep your shells dry.  As long as you did that you were sitting in the drivers seat, no pun intended. 
 
(http://img191.exs.cx/img191/4011/jk55zy.jpg)

Joe’s pistol here is a Colt 1873 SSA Cavalry model 7-½ inch barrel.

(http://www.ocyoung.com/images/41SAA7.5.jpg)


(http://img187.exs.cx/img187/2637/jk84gu.jpg)

Now for the fun stuff.  Here we have the C-96 Mauser Broom handle, the first true automatic pistol.  Interestingly enough it was not designed by Paul Mauser but by three brothers by the last name of Feederle that worked for him in his experimental workshop.  The US army in WWII destroyed all records of all Mauser production and specs as they were ordered to burn the factory down by the brass.  Chambered for the 7.62 round, the precursor to the 9 mm, it had a very effective range and usually had a ten round “stripper” clip that you could just slide in the bottom, chamber a round and off you went.  They did have a 20 round clip but it was bulky and cumbersome hanging off the gun and not very efficient for travel. It’s holster, traveling case, was wooden and served as an attachable stock as seen with Joe Kidd above.  It was used to assassinate the last Czar Nicholas II   and Winston Churchill was known to carry one in the Boer Wars.  It’s funny to see this weapon in a Western but in doing some research I found that a few Spaghetti Westerns used them…Check it out...Fistful of Westerns (http://website.lineone.net/~braithwaitej/mainsite/overview/guns/mauser.htm)


(http://www.classicfirearms.co.uk/BHoldspec.jpg)
1896 Mauser "Broomhandle" 7.62mm

(http://www.g6csy.net/c96/blaster.jpg)
Han Solo's C-96 from Star Wars with a few special modifications.

(http://img187.exs.cx/img187/816/jk106ut.jpg)
Now comes the mystery rifle we see Joe Kidd with here picking off the henchman on the rocks.  I had an expert from a gun forum tell me that it is a Canadian Ross but by looking at the Ross myself it doesn’t really look like it to me.  I have compared it to literally hundreds of rifles but nothing of that time period seems to have that long exposed barrel.  One gun that it does look like is the Winchester model 70 but I believe that started production in the ’30’s, which is not to say it wasn’t used in the movie.     
(http://img187.exs.cx/img187/8669/jk112pf.jpg)


(http://www.nagelsguns.net/WinM70_93765_02.JPG)
The Winchester Model 70

Or the Canadian Ross????


(http://img22.exs.cx/img22/5755/ross16yc.jpg)

I am thinking Johann Peterlongo rifle
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Mingo on September 27, 2013, 07:35:17 AM
The rifle Joe used to snipe Mingo from the rocks is a Canadian Ross M-10 MkIII sporter in .280 Ross .
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Deping on February 07, 2014, 07:41:56 AM
I would love to have all the guns both Clint Eastwood and John Wayne used in my gun collection! I would have to build a warehouse sized addition to the house to contain them all but if I had the money to buy a collection like that, it wouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Jovifreak on October 05, 2014, 01:24:13 PM
Hi im new here and don't know if this has come up before... :) :) Dose anybody know if Clint used his own gun holster??? just asking as I have seen him wearing the same one in a few films dollars trilogy ect but just seen him wearing the same one in Joe Kidd plus it also looks the same one that Steve McQueen wore in the Magnificent seven

Thanks

Simon

p.s great site
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on October 05, 2014, 05:53:15 PM
Hi, Jovifreak, and welcome to the Eastwood Web Board. You should find your answers in this thread:

http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=2609.0

I hope it helps! :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: Jovifreak on October 05, 2014, 11:30:40 PM
Many thanks that has answered my question perfectly I have always wondered about it :) :)
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: peterparker on October 16, 2014, 01:32:05 AM
i always liked 0.49 magnum. It looks MaNTASTIC. I dont care about SMGs. Dirty harry with pistol in hand is best thing i v ever seen..CUDOS O0
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: 3371gary on October 29, 2017, 12:58:03 PM
what’s the chances of Clint autograph my winchester ? Next to none I know but,,,,, it’s on my bucket list 
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on October 29, 2017, 05:36:20 PM
I would say possibly less than next to none. That said, I ought to emphasize that this is a fan site, and we have no official connection to Clint Eastwood. It is certainly possible that if you rescued one of his children from drowning, and asked him nicely, he might oblige. But would you ever want to fire it again?
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: palooka on November 15, 2017, 12:51:56 AM
I'd imagine if you approached Mr Eastwood carrying a rifle, you might be welcomed with taser.
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on November 15, 2017, 02:03:21 AM
I was assuming he would ask first, without gun in hand! ;D
Title: Re: Clint's Guns
Post by: KC on January 30, 2018, 11:48:43 PM
I came across this great article on Clint's guns while I was searching for more "Clint's clothing" pics. It's very thorough and appears to be very well-researched. The pictures are great, too:

https://www.range365.com/movie-guns-clint-eastwood