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Messages - KC

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29881
Trivia Games / Re:15 Questions ... the sequel!
« on: December 03, 2002, 11:10:18 PM »
All right!  8)

Is it an inanimate object?

29882
Trivia Games / Re:15 Questions ... the sequel!
« on: December 03, 2002, 11:07:14 PM »
Is it Hang 'em High, then?  :P

29883
Trivia Games / Re:15 Questions ... the sequel!
« on: December 03, 2002, 11:01:25 PM »
Directed by Sergio? If so ... here's some cheese for that spaghetti!  :D :D :D

29884
Trivia Games / Re:15 Questions ... the sequel!
« on: December 03, 2002, 10:57:31 PM »
Why can't I have the cool smiley for the message icon?  >:(  :( ???

 8) Directed by Clint?

29885
Trivia Games / Re:15 Questions ... the sequel!
« on: December 03, 2002, 10:52:30 PM »
Is it a Western?  ;D

29886
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:37:47 PM »
Originally posted by Philo, 12-02-2002:

The Stranger and myself went over this prior to him posting and I must admit he has put it across in a way that I also felt the films differ .
We found ourselves saying what was very , very right with Josey .

Philo .

29887
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:36:26 PM »
Originally posted by little_bill, 12-02-2002:

hey stranger did you wear out the keys on your keypad writing that

29888
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:34:53 PM »
Originally posted by Stranger, 12-01-2002:

Yep, I know how painful it is watching 2 Eastwood films back to back   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
   
-Stranger-

29889
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:33:46 PM »
Originally posted by AKA23, 12-01-2002:

Hey Stranger. I do have a few comments myself in regards to your post here, but I think I'll wait until the unveiling of the "new board" to post them. Please continue the discussion over there!  :) I think it's time for a rewatch of Unforgiven too! Then I'll be able to address things like it drags in the middle, and other stuff like that!  :) Actually, a rewatch of The Outlaw Josey Wales and Unforgiven is probably in order!   ;D

29890
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:32:30 PM »
Originally posted by Stranger, 12-01-2002:

Doug, K.C. thanks   ;)

-Stranger-

29891
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:31:25 PM »
Originally posted by KC, 11-30-2002:

Stranger, you did a very good job of stating your case ... I'm eager to respond to your argument in detail, but I seem to have about twenty other things going on right now ... including trying to save as much as I can of this site before it disappears forever.  

If "THE CHANGEOVER" should occur before everyone has his say here, I hope we can take this up again on the new Board.

KC

29892
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:30:23 PM »
Originally posted by Doug, 11-30-2002:

Thanks, Stranger, for posting. It is funny though, because I always thought Josey dragged a little in the middle. Just a little. And some of the lines in that movie seem silly to me, like the classic "dying ain't much of a living, boy" line. And I never cared for Sondra in that movie, though I don't mind her in any of his others. The two movies do have very different temperments so it doesn't surprise me that people are loyal to one or the other based on their personality, and that was why I was trying to avoid comparisons in this thread. But they are two of Clint's most important films that he directed, and I love them both.

29893
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:29:31 PM »
Originally posted by stranger, 11-30-2002:

Ok, I suppose it comes as no surprise that Philo and myself are on the slightly critical side of Unforgiven, maybe even critical is too strong a word?
It is so often very hard to really explain as to why Unforgiven just doesn't appeal (to us) as much as say Josey...

I actually saw Unforgiven in San Francisco, so there was no doubt, I was in a great frame of mind before I entered into the theatre, I'm in Clint's home town, and lovin' every minute of it!

So why was I not jumping with joy after I had seen it?
Unforgiven was/is a wonderful movie, I've never said I didn't like it or hated it?
But, there's been a hell of a lot of great stuff previously in the saddle... for instance Josey Wales... (which I believe, is simply one of the very best, if not, the best western ever made).

So, I now have to dig deep, and try and explain why, when really it should only equate simply to a personal preference?

Firstly, I think Unforgiven looks just fine, some remarkably beautiful photography never goes a miss...
Unfortunately, the lack of a really decent transfer to a home video format doesn't really help, even the higher end formats such as Laserdisc and DVD (1st generation issue) were comparatively poor, suffering from a high amount of grain etc etc (but this is a different story...)

I do know that the 35mm print is stunning..Philo can expand more on this, the technical side..

I guess the problem that first comes to mind is the William Munny character. This is the first time I have ever encountered Clint (while in the saddle) in a somewhat vulnerable capacity, he doesn't appear to be confident, unsure, doubtful and really doesn't want to be involved.
Now I know this is vital to both the story and the character Clint is playing, But, maybe I just had a problem identifying Clint in such a vulnerable capacity, set within the western genre?
Secondly, the story I found to be flat, rather dull and quite frankly not a lot happening to encourage me toward the edge of my seat.
Nothing wrong with the acting from all the principles and the support, everyone carried of their job just fine.
I thought the pace of the film was a little slow, especially toward the middle section of the film, and I found it all a little predictable..
I was waiting and waiting and waiting...but nothing really seemed to come?

There was a rather nice score from Niehaus for which I thought the main theme was used a little too repetitively, a few nice dramatic cues help lift their appropriate sequences, but, not exactly enough to widen my eyes in wonder nor to take up the habit of biting my nails...
The script was fine, but I really didn't think there was too much particularly earth shattering about it.
It had a moral aspect to the story, which is perfectly acceptable, but, didn't Josey have a message to tell? The morality of dying, killing and living?
Maybe it's just me, but I thought Josey told the story far better than Unforgiven ever did, more touching, more poignantly handled..
Josey takes us, the viewer, into a tale which is anything but predictable, and left me painstakingly hanging on to what was about to unfold in each and every scene.
Unforgiven on the other hand, simply did not..
Direction? Ok the main man was in control of both films, I'm sorry, but I don't think Unforgiven's direction comes anywhere close to that of Josey's, I think Josey is Clint's finest moment as a director, every aspect of the movie shines and presents a director who was confident, passionate and ultimately in supreme control of each and every scene.

Josey, for me, had an intensity, an edge, a sharpness from it's thunderous opening montage to it's delicately handled closing.
Fielding's music score was outstanding, with every cue perfectly fitting the atmosphere of it's sequence.
The adapted script was moving, intelligent and amusing. Clint's portrayal of a man's desperate journey is (for me) his strongest screen performance. He surrounded himself with an array of faultless character actors and actress's, Locke's portrayal is innocently subtle, Bottoms is superb, George is wonderful, any supporting actor or actress in any chosen scene is really hard to fault..
Josey's photography is superb and I honestly cannot see the comparison when Unforgiven is brought into the equation? Unforgiven looks nice, while I think Josey looks simply wonderful.

So, Unforgiven is understandably always going to be compared to Josey Wales. Why? Probably because Unforgiven was graced with Academy awards while Josey was not.
I do stand on the side which considers that Unforgiven was/is overrated.
I will be blatantly honest, and say that I think Unforgiven was awarded for all of the wrong reasons. I think it was a justified attempt to put right a decision that had been so wrong in the past, Josey was so shamelessly overlooked back in the 70's.
Given this, as well as a general nod for Clint's entire body of work, I believe that the opportunity had risen, and a wrong was put right.
As the Academy members become younger and younger, with the likes of Tarantino and such, who I know, are so appreciative of these Classic pictures, we will probably see such accolades being bestowed upon the likes of Clint. We had seen Pacino honoured.. Scent of a Woman? One of Pacino's finest? I think not....But, again, my personal opinion.
I can't see Clint winning too many more Oscars, I believe the chance presented itself in that particular year, and it was a chance to basically say, hey, we should have done this a long long time ago, it was Oscar material in the fact that it was a story with a moral message, and I think that was basically enough to tip the scales in Clint's direction.
-Stranger-


29894
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:26:00 PM »
Originally posted by philo, 11-30-02:

Well I guess I should at least add the only comments I have ever been able to express on this subject.

I am one of the people that does not feel Unforgiven is the masterpiece that everyone claims . First of all I do agree with the technical remarks , it is a beautiful looking film and I would be wrong to suggest otherwise .
I can only put it down then to the script and the pacing of the film . I find it hard work to sit through the story has been praised by Eastwood on many occasions but I feel that because Western scripts were/are a bit rare that it is therefore overrated. I have not seen it since it opened , but I have just ordered the new DVD (at the cheapest I could find it , because the extras are poor). I will be seeing it again soon , but I don't expect to feel any different .
As I said before it deserves more than this but this is all I can say .
It is overpraised and is not or will ever be in the same league as The Outlaw Josey Wales.(just my view , not to be forced upon anyone)

Philo .

29895
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:24:17 PM »
Originally posted by william evans, 11-29-02:

Yeh, that is correct Matt! And little bill could use some pointers from Mr. Villa, and not Poncho!   ;D   8)

29896
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:22:56 PM »
Originally posted by Matt:, 11-29-02:

Yup, the host of "This Old House" and I think, little_bill, that William was referring to the ACTUAL Little Bill and that scene where he kicks the holy hell out of English Bob in the street.

29897
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:21:42 PM »
Originally posted by Agent, 11-29-02:

Isn't he the "fix-it-yourself" guy?

29898
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:20:16 PM »
Originally posted by little_bill, 11-29-02:

Quote
Originally posted by william evans:

Great response Doug! It did seem real, I even felt the kicks from Little Bill as much as his attempts to become the first Bob Villa    ;D   8)  
who me?   ???

29899
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:15:02 PM »
Originally posted by william evans, 11-29-2002:

Great response Doug! It did seem real, I even felt the kicks from Little Bill as much as his attempts to become the first Bob Villa   ;D  8)  

29900
Clint Eastwood Westerns / Re:Unforgiven (Doug's thread)
« on: December 03, 2002, 07:12:08 PM »
Originally posted by Matt, 11-27-02:

Perfectly stated, Doug.  I couldn't even begin to put it better than you just did.

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