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Author Topic: Eastwood Movie Challenge Week Two: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, Hang 'em High  (Read 7073 times)
Matt
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« Reply #80 on: February 14, 2016, 01:11:33 AM »

I agree with you completely that they were motivated by Greed, and not Need.  And, I do think they would have wanted a nice lifestyle if it was available to them. They're not first rate citizens, Tuco is a rapist, a murderer, a thief, the list of offenses they read off were comical, so when I write that they didn't have any problem with killing a few people to get the money, I'm not talking about your average person doing it as well.

Blondie is more of a con-artist, but he doesn't mind killing. He's a bounty-hunter, and he's killed his share of men.

But, seriously, Man... I mean no disrespect, but I can't figure out how you mistook what I said as a RIGHT to a middle class home. You said they would have been stinking rich if we converted the dollars to today's dollars. But, if we convert that amount to today's dollars, we have to adjust for the cost of living, and that's not rich. Maybe it would be plenty to retire on if you were close to retirement and already had a home, but they weren't. I took into account that they had at least 40 years to live, and no homes. They were drifters. As I pointed out, a middle class home would eat up pretty much what they had, not leaving enough to get through the next 40 years.

Even when I looked up the most modest cities in the country to live, homes are still over $100k median. The opportunity is literally in their grasp to be literally rich... billionaires by today's standards, or close to it. Yes, those men (not me) wouldn't settle on the middle class lifestyle. They were, as you said, too greedy for that.
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KC
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« Reply #81 on: February 14, 2016, 01:36:37 AM »

I don't think there is any doubt that greed was behind the characters' actions in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Now, if Stevens had gone after the gold, that might have been more a case of need.

But MWNA, where did you get your figure of a "more than 100X" inflation rate since 1862? This site says one 1862 dollar would be worth less than $24 in today's dollars. That is, Blondie and Tuco made about $24,000 apiece the first time they pulled their scam, and around $36,000 the second time (when the price on Tuco's head had risen to $3,000). That's only $60,000 total, certainly not "filthy rich" by any standards. Even if they had done it a few more times than the two we saw, I don't see them earning enough from it to assure a carefree future. And it was dangerous. Word would surely get around about it, and how soon would it be before Tuco got hanged off in the desert somewhere where Blondie wouldn't have a chance to get close enough to shoot the rope? Or before Blondie himself got captured? And of course ... Blondie did miss the rope, the second time, though that time he recovered quickly enough to save Tuco, just barely.
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The Man With No Aim
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« Reply #82 on: February 14, 2016, 02:26:26 AM »

I don't think there is any doubt that greed was behind the characters' actions in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Now, if Stevens had gone after the gold, that might have been more a case of need.

But MWNA, where did you get your figure of a "more than 100X" inflation rate since 1862? This site says one 1862 dollar would be worth less than $24 in today's dollars. That is, Blondie and Tuco made about $24,000 apiece the first time they pulled their scam, and around $36,000 the second time (when the price on Tuco's head had risen to $3,000). That's only $60,000 total, certainly not "filthy rich" by any standards. Even if they had done it a few more times than the two we saw, I don't see them earning enough from it to assure a carefree future. And it was dangerous. Word would surely get around about it, and how soon would it be before Tuco got hanged off in the desert somewhere where Blondie wouldn't have a chance to get close enough to shoot the rope? Or before Blondie himself got captured? And of course ... Blondie did miss the rope, the second time, though that time he recovered quickly enough to save Tuco, just barely.

Way back, once upon a time, I bought a lovely little book. An exact reprint of a 1900 Sears Roebuck catalog. At that time, many years ago today, I had just recently discovered guns, having recently bought a repro 1851 Navy Colt, a Ruger "Luger" (the cute little 22 Long Rifle pistol that looked like a Luger), and a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 magnum). One thing that caught my eye in the 1900 Sears catalog was the price of guns. A Winchester lever action rifle was priced at $4.95. Yes, no typo, FOUR DOLLARS and NINETY FIVE CENTS. Today a comparable gun would sell for about $495. That is 100 X.  Many other items were priced at very roughly the same 100 X money factor. Shoes, whatever. And that comparing 1900 to 2016. I figure inflation had been happening since 1862 to 1900 also, so 100 X is a conservative factor on the low side.

Another example is the 1847 Walker Colt. The Army paid $25.00 for them. The modern day equivalent would be the Auto Mag 44, which starred in the 4th Dirty Harry film, which would have had to be sold for about $2,500 for the manufacturer to make a fair market profit. That's 100 X. 


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« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 02:59:09 AM by The Man With No Aim » Logged

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The Man With No Aim
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« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2016, 02:45:39 AM »

I agree with you completely that they were motivated by Greed, and not Need.  And, I do think they would have wanted a nice lifestyle if it was available to them. They're not first rate citizens, Tuco is a rapist, a murderer, a thief, the list of offenses they read off were comical, so when I write that they didn't have any problem with killing a few people to get the money, I'm not talking about your average person doing it as well.

Blondie is more of a con-artist, but he doesn't mind killing. He's a bounty-hunter, and he's killed his share of men.

But, seriously, Man... I mean no disrespect, but I can't figure out how you mistook what I said as a RIGHT to a middle class home. You said they would have been stinking rich if we converted the dollars to today's dollars. But, if we convert that amount to today's dollars, we have to adjust for the cost of living, and that's not rich. Maybe it would be plenty to retire on if you were close to retirement and already had a home, but they weren't. I took into account that they had at least 40 years to live, and no homes. They were drifters. As I pointed out, a middle class home would eat up pretty much what they had, not leaving enough to get through the next 40 years.

Even when I looked up the most modest cities in the country to live, homes are still over $100k median. The opportunity is literally in their grasp to be literally rich... billionaires by today's standards, or close to it. Yes, those men (not me) wouldn't settle on the middle class lifestyle. They were, as you said, too greedy for that.

Uhhh, Matt, do you have an unusually short attention span? I just got through explaining plainly to you that I am living proof that a person can retire, buy a functional dwelling, and live without feeling tortured, in a $11,000 dwelling, annual living expenses of $11,000, and a retirement savings stash of nearly zero. Do I need to write it in 2X font size?

In terms of NEED, Tuco and Blondie could have stopped lying, stealing, and murdering halfway through the film. 


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Matt
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« Reply #84 on: February 14, 2016, 10:01:48 AM »

Man, the fact that you can live in an $11k dwelling and feel comfortable has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. If you can't understand me, then drop the discussion.

These men are not you, and they're not me. I'm talking about Blondie and Tuco. Not Man and Matt.

Blondie and Tuco are bandits. They're con-artists. They're murderers. They don't feel bad when they do what they do. It's actually fun for them. They enjoy it. And they want to live large. They like the greed. They like the excitement and the fun of it all.

They would not be happy living a modest life by the law. They're not you and me.

It's not about Need, it's about Greed. I thought we agreed (wow, this is a Dr. Seuss story all of a sudden) on that.

When I said, and I will say it for a third time... it would buy them a middle class home, and not enough to live on, that's exactly what I said, and meant, and what was accurate.

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Matt
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« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2016, 10:11:18 AM »

And now I'm going to speak as a Moderator, and that kind of sucks, and is one of the reasons I wasn't sure I wanted to be one again. It's hard to be friends with people on the board and a Moderator at the same time. But, I'm going to do it here because it's been coming and needs to be said.

This community is a friendly community. We're here to talk and have a fun time. We ain't here to argue and insult. If you feel the need to insult other members here, and insinuate that they're stupid because they don't agree with you, or see things differently than you, it's not going to go over too well. Just try to get along. If you can't agree, you've said your point three times, it's time to move on.

I like you, and I enjoy your posts. But I ain't gonna put up with anyone picking fights and threatening to post in 2x font to make me understand something. That's just insulting.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 12:12:25 PM by Matt » Logged
Doug
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« Reply #86 on: February 14, 2016, 02:14:53 PM »

Nobody has ever argued Tuco, Blondie and Angel Eyes were motivated by anything other than greed. Even the characters don't try to defend their actions. I can't believe that even needs to be pointed out.
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Christopher
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« Reply #87 on: February 15, 2016, 08:57:39 AM »

I'm just going to reiterate what Doug said here...

Nobody has ever argued Tuco, Blondie and Angel Eyes were motivated by anything other than greed. Even the characters don't try to defend their actions. I can't believe that even needs to be pointed out.
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Conan
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« Reply #88 on: February 15, 2016, 09:15:35 AM »

  All this time I thought Tuco, Blondie, and Angel Eyes were risking their lives for the camaraderie.
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Matt
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« Reply #89 on: February 15, 2016, 11:17:03 AM »

I'd just like to agree with myself, and Doug, and Christopher, and anyone else who would somehow mistake my posts that Blondie and Tuco were model citizens who needed money to live a middle-class lifestyle so managed to kill, rape, and cheat to get it. No one ever said that.

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palooka
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« Reply #90 on: February 18, 2016, 01:00:18 AM »

Greed. A most basic part of human nature.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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« Reply #91 on: March 28, 2016, 11:41:44 AM »

I think "Hang 'Em High" is interesting. I do think that the music is too obstrusive and that the film would have benefited from a quieter score, but it intrigues me because it is thematically a bit of an anti-capital punishment film. I think that was a pretty unconventional thing for Eastwood to tackle in only his first American western. It was certainly not something that the typical actor would have wanted to delve into in 1968. I also think it's interesting because Judge Fenton reminded me a little bit of Little Bill. When Cooper strongly advised the Judge that the two young boys shouldn't be charged with murder because he didn't think they were guilty, Judge Fenton dismissed Cooper's legitimate concerns because he said that he wanted to keep law and order in the town. He thought that doing so would help the territory achieve statehood. He was a law man like Little Bill who seemed to genuinely care about the preservation of law and order. Both he and Little Bill were willing to do things that many would find unethical or unjust in service of what they felt were noble ends.

It is also of note that as a director Eastwood would further develop this anti-capital punishment theme in "True Crime," and would continue to question and criticize the application of the rules and procedures of agents of the criminal justice system while directing "A Perfect World," "Changeling," and to some extent, "J. Edgar" as well. 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 12:04:54 PM by AKA23 » Logged
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« Reply #92 on: December 10, 2016, 06:00:35 AM »

Hello, I am new here. I had recently read other forums about how nobody liked hang em high, that there wasn't enough "bad guys". I just wanna tell those people. Clint is the "bad guy" in this flick. He if fighting his own deamons. Also, it does have an ending, The judge spells it out...It's a great movie if you understand it. That is all, thank you for letting me vent :)  :smitten:
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Perry
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« Reply #93 on: December 13, 2016, 02:52:10 PM »



What are  'deamons'.
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