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Author Topic: IS there Gay Subtext in DIRTY HARRY?  (Read 21684 times)
allycat
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« on: December 19, 2002, 05:53:55 PM »

This is a companion thread to the "Thunderbolt and Lightfoot Gay/No Way Debate".  It was started by bdc28 and I'm bringing it over to this board, now that the T&L thread is here.  I hope everyone enjoys it...  :)
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
allycat
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2002, 05:55:53 PM »

Originally posted by bdc28, 05-21-2002 08:30 AM      
As we are all Eastwood zealots, and all more than likely own DIRTY HARRY, here will be our happy homework....

IS THERE GAY SUBTEXT IN DIRTY HARRY? We have all seen the long THUNDERBOLT AND LIGHTFOOT debate, so I figure lets do this one for fun.   :)

Any and all subtext will be considered and reviewed as per members of the CEBC (which would be me and Matt, yeah Im draggin you into this one too bud).

This includes any use of the word "will" to predict the coming of the show "WILL AND GRACE".

 :) ....aint I a stinker?

--------------------

"Has anyone ever told you that you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??!",-Jim Carrey as THE RIDDLER.
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2002, 05:57:14 PM »

Originally posted by Agent, 05-21-2002 08:36 AM      
Oh no.......!

 ;D

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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2002, 05:58:29 PM »

Originally posted by bdc28, 05-21-2002 08:44 AM      
Well, I should start it, since it was my idea.

"Where's the girl?" (Harry asks Scorpio on the football field). Harry is openly hostile about there being a girl involved between his and Scorpio's relationship. He knows the killings were Scorpio's way of getting Harry's attention.

44. Magnum....a LARGE phallic figure.

"Well for the last ...minutes Ive been sitting on my ass in your office" (paraphrasing, Harry speaking to the mayor). Harry loving to reference his backside whenever speaking to figures of authority.

"Because he looks too damn good thats why" (Harry about Scorpio's beating)...this shows Harry's obvious but latent attraction towards Scorpio.

--------------------
"Has anyone ever told you that you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??!",-Jim Carrey as THE RIDDLER.
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2002, 05:59:47 PM »

Originally posted by Agent, 05-21-2002 08:55 AM
Don't forget Harry's mouth full of hotdog during the bank robbery scene, and Scorpio's fetish with S & M (having to pay Clarence for it, since Harry's beating wasn't sufficient).

I think I'll stop there and sneak out of here....

--------------------
Flint: "That eagle, why did he attack me?"
Galaxy man: "He's been trained to recognize and attack Americans."
Flint: "An anti-American eagle. How diabolical!"
-Our Man Flint
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2002, 06:00:59 PM »

Originally posted by 618, 05-21-2002 10:09 AM      
No, damn it! There's no gay subtext in this movie. The only Eastwood movie that has a gay subtext in it is "Thunderbolt and Lightfoot." At least, it had the last time I looked at the thread. Keep this up and I'm gonna sick Hammer on you!

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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2002, 06:02:13 PM »

Originally posted by bdc28, 05-21-2002 10:16 AM      
ROTFL @ 618

Oh come on 618, dont be in denial!! *giggle*. They are as blatant as the nose on your face.

"I know what your thinking..did he fire six shots or five". Are we going to BLATANTLY ignore the subtext in this? This is a subliminal statement of "I am alpha male and can do it multiple times".

When the camera fades off, and Harry is standing on Scorpios leg on the football field, the gun is "inadvertently" pointing towards Scorpios butt. Does this need anything more? THIS SCENE COULD HAVE BEEN RIGHT OUT OF OZ!! (well, that and Scorpio's screaming at having a REAL MAN on top of him)

DISCLAIMER: ANYONE WHO IS VAGUELY THINKING ABOUT TAKING THIS THREAD SERIOUSLY SHOULD SLOWLY TAKE THE POWER CORD OUT OF THEIR COMPUTER, AND PUT IT BACK IN THE BOX. IT IS DOING YOU NO GOOD. PLEASE GET OUT MORE.

--------------------
"Has anyone ever told you that you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??!",-Jim Carrey as THE RIDDLER.
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2002, 06:04:35 PM »

Originally posted by Red, 05-21-2002 10:59 AM      
Then there is Harry's eagerness to remove his pants in front of the Intern while having the shotgun pellets removed from his leg.

--------------------
Improvise, adapt, overcome
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2002, 06:05:46 PM »

Originally posted by 618,05-21-2002 11:46 AM      
It's my opinion that he arranged that robbery ahead of time so he could get his leg hit by a shotgun blast in order to be able to remove his pants in front of the intern. That's why the Warner execs didn't want this in the film. Maybe we'll be able to see this when they release the full version with Eastwood's and the intern's commentaries.
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2002, 06:07:01 PM »

Originally posted by Agent, 05-21-2002 12:03 PM  
I think Bill McKinney would've been great as Scorpio - what do you think?

--------------------
Flint: "That eagle, why did he attack me?"
Galaxy man: "He's been trained to recognize and attack Americans."
Flint: "An anti-American eagle. How diabolical!"
-Our Man Flint
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2002, 06:11:11 PM »

Originally posted by Agent, 05-21-2002 12:07 PM      
Oh! ...and we musn't forget Alice in the park. I can't believe no one mentioned such a pivotal point in the movie! Who dares lay out the subtext in that scene??

--------------------
Flint: "That eagle, why did he attack me?"
Galaxy man: "He's been trained to recognize and attack Americans."
Flint: "An anti-American eagle. How diabolical!"
-Our Man Flint
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2002, 06:12:18 PM »

Originally posted by 618, 05-21-2002 12:49 PM      
Wasn't that Bill McKinney playing the part of Alice? I thought he was another of the uncredited actors in the film?
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2002, 06:13:29 PM »

Originally posted by Agent, 05-21-2002 01:00 PM      
I believe he was originally scheduled to play the part of "Alice," but his services were needed for Deliverance at the last minute.

--------------------
Flint: "That eagle, why did he attack me?"
Galaxy man: "He's been trained to recognize and attack Americans."
Flint: "An anti-American eagle. How diabolical!"
-Our Man Flint
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
allycat
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2002, 06:15:01 PM »

Originally posted by 618, 05-21-2002 02:43 PM
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« Last Edit: December 19, 2002, 06:16:18 PM by allycat » Logged

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2002, 06:18:37 PM »

Originally posted by Agent, 05-21-2002 03:08 PM      
Interesting. He (the author of the article) did mention something I never pondered - that Scorpio's gay. He seemed absolutely sure of it, but I've always thought of Scorpio as more of an asexual type of person, hating everybody, respecter of neither sex. He had no problem getting ready to knock off the black gay guy before being rudely interrupted by the police helicopter, so I wouldn't rush to the fact that he's gay (my opinion, although the author had a different interpretation of the scenario:

Quote
The only two targets caught between the crosshairs of Scorpio's rifle that get away are over the top queer - yet Scorpio hates the sight of them perhaps sensing his own mottled reflection.

But there's some great subtext material in the article nonetheless!

Quote

Much has been written about "Dirty Harry", but rarely has anything been mentioned about the film's underlying homophobic subtext and its almost homoerotic worship of Harry's .44 Magnum ("My," croons Scorpio as Harry pulls the gun from its holster, "that's a big one.").

I'll have to spend time on that site....lots of good movies to check out. Thanks man.

--------------------
Flint: "That eagle, why did he attack me?"
Galaxy man: "He's been trained to recognize and attack Americans."
Flint: "An anti-American eagle. How diabolical!"
-Our Man Flint
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2002, 06:19:40 PM »

Originally posted by 618,  05-21-2002 05:32 PM      
He's very, very sharp. Check out the review of "Vanishing Point," even if you haven't seen the movie.
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2002, 06:25:28 PM »

Originally posted by Matt, 05-21-2002 06:17 PM      
Using GMAT's gay subtext examples in The Endless Thunderbolt and Lightfoot Gay/No Way Debate thread as a reference point, how about these:

The bank robber, sprawled provocatively on the pavement, looks up at Harry who stands straight and tall like an erect penis as he says "I know what you're thinking..." (See "Punk" below)

Scorpio, squeeling and crying like a girl at Kezar Stadium, he's not a manly man. He must be gay. (No offense to the women of the board, I'm just following GMAT's examples here)

Quote
Originally posted by GMAT:
I think that that sequencing and editing is pretty compelling evidence for a gay subtext. Movies are carefully mapped out and don't just happen "naturally" and without certain implications.
Watch the final confrontation between Scorpio and Harry. Scorpio with his mouth wide open, cuts to Harry's gun, pointed right at him. Then back to Scorpio's wide open mouth, back to the gun! Back to the mouth, as Harry even says "but being this is a 44 magnum, and the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off... you've got to ask yourself a question. ‘Do I feel lucky?' Well, do you? PUNK?"


Quote
Punk (slang)

2. a young male partner of a homosexual.

Websters Universal College Dictionary

Quote
Originally posted by GMAT:
Another symbol of heterosexual impotency in Thunderbolt and Lightfoot: Thunderbolt's bad leg.

Both Harry AND Scorpio suffer leg injuries in this film, and Scorpio limps throughout the second half of the film.


Quote
Originally posted by GMAT:
Sure, the lust for women is part of the necessary textual disguise for a taboo subject (homosexuality). And, tellingly, does Lightfoot score with any of those women? No. If Cimino really wanted to emphasize Lightfoot's heterosexuality, don't you think that he would have had him score at least once?
All those naked women that Harry can see but not touch, a CLEAR example of his heterosexual impotency: Hot Mary, the girl at the party, the strippers. Tellingly, does Harry score with any of those women? No. If Segal really wanted to emphasize Harry's heterosexuality, don't you think that he would have had him score at least once?

Scorpio's wearing a floral print tie when he got beat up by "Clarence Thomas". It was when he became a girl that he had to be punished.

Have I spewed enough pop Psychology 101 yet? I really feel sorry for film analysts and critics who make a living coming up with this kind of bullsh!t, and think they're brilliant for it.

Judging by these examples, it's clear, no... it's OVERWHELMINGLY OBVIOUS that Harry and Scorpio are gay as hell.  
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2002, 06:27:14 PM »

Originally posted by KC,  05-21-2002 08:21 PM      

You got it, Matt! I'm amazed no one pointed out all these things before. And how about all those phallic symbols ...



KC
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2002, 06:28:38 PM »

Originally posted by bdc28, 05-22-2002 05:10 AM      
*bows to the greatness that is Matt*

WOW, talk about revisited!!!! I couldnt have done that much bullsh!t spewing if I watched the movie twice!!!

--------------------
"Has anyone ever told you that you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??!",-Jim Carrey as THE RIDDLER.
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2002, 06:31:27 PM »

Borrowed this shot from another thread:



Okay, sub-quiz time:

Q: What is going on in this sub-scenario? Which is the correct sub-answer?

A.   Scorpio was caught in the middle of a no-no (self-gratification type of act)
B.   Alice snuck up from behind unexpectedly and scared the "dickens" out of him (or into him)
C.   He found out he was actually not related to Edward G. Robinson
D.   Eastwood unknowingly stuck him with a real knife
E.   Whatever your sub-conscious is telling you
F.   All of the above

Anyone?

--------------------
Flint: "That eagle, why did he attack me?"
Galaxy man: "He's been trained to recognize and attack Americans."
Flint: "An anti-American eagle. How diabolical!"
-Our Man Flint
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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