MAGNUM FORCE: The Story 3: All Our Heroes Are Dead

[Matt]

There is a scene in Magnum Force where the renegade cops approach Harry and try to recruit him into their circle. The conversation goes like this:

ASTRACHAN: Do you have any idea how hard it is to prosecute a cop?

CALLAHAN: You heroes have killed a dozen people this week. What are you gonna do next week?

DAVIS: Kill a dozen more.

CALLAHAN: Is that what you guys are all about? Being heroes?

ASTRACHAN: All our heroes are dead.

DAVIS: We're the first generation that's learned to fight. We're simply ridding society of killers that would be caught and sentenced anyway if our courts worked properly. We began with the criminals that the people know so that our actions would be understood. It's not just a question of whether or not to use violence, there simply is no other way, Inspector. You of all people... should understand that.

GRIMES: Either you're for us or you're against us.

CALLAHAN: I'm afraid you've misjudged me.

Who do you think are the "heroes" that Astrachan was referring to?

Also, list the differences that you see between Harry's treatment of criminals and the actions of the renegade cops in this film.

[Brendan]

Harry at least tries to bring the people in. He only uses violence if nessacary. These "cops" just used violence right away and never even tried to bring these people in.

[D'Ambrosia]

I always assumed that he was referring to fellow airborne rangers in Vietnam.

As far as the difference in the way Harry treats criminals in this movie, I don’t know.  They all, for the most part, end up dead…

[Bronco_Billy]

Intriguing line about heroes , that had an ambiguity for a reason I assume.

The cops kill by suprise , they'd shoot someone before they realised whats going on , their victims never know what's about to happen .

Harry puts his cards on the table , he's saying I'm here to arrest you , you can come peacefully or die bloody and if the villians still pull their peices then he will shoot them because he realises you have to treat like with like with these freaks because diplomacy dosn't work.


 

[Agent]

When Astrachan replies, "All our heroes are dead," I get the impression that the heroes he's referring to became so as a result of becoming dead. In other words, dying for what they believed in, or in the case of lawmen (assuming their heroes were lawmen) - dying while upholding the law. If referring to someone famous, the only famous person that comes to mind, at least during those times, is Buford Pusser. I can't think of anybody else right off the bat. Sure there were other famous (dead) figures, such as Elliot Ness, but he died of natural causes. Personally I believe they were referring to their fellow officers who were killed in the past, leaving a chip on their shoulder to avenge their dead comrades and take matters into their own hands.

Ironically they themselves end up killing their fellow officers, if those officers don't stand up with them for their cause (Early & McCoy for example). Whether McCoy was for or against them I don't know, but that poor goober just happened to wander in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The difference between Callahan's treatment of criminals and the killer cops' actions are very different. Harry at least gives them the opportunity to draw their weapon first ("6 shots or 5"), whereas the renegade cops just blow them away when they're not even looking. Callahan may hate the criminal as much as they do, but he's not a cold blooded murderer.

** I tell ya, drinking 8 cups of Starbucks will either make you deeply philosophical or just babble on insanely about anything....time for me to hit the road.

[KC]

Interesting comments, Agent. I never thought about the "dead heroes" being officers who had died in the line of duty ... but I'm sure you remember the opening shot of Dirty Harry ... the memorial plaque in San Francisco's Hall of Justice ...

[Agent]

Yes, I regret not seeing that plaque while in Frisco last year. Next time for sure.

Again, what made me think about that was, he doesn't say "some of our heroes are dead," or even "most of our heroes," but "All our heroes are dead." So it seemed to make sense (to me anyway) that they were referring to their own fallen companions.

[bdc28]

I just had a weird thought, follow me on this one.

When I first heard the comment "all of our heroes are dead", I thought it was a political comment made on JFK, King, and such.

But it was a direct answer, to Callahan questioning how seriously he should consider the people in front of him.

"All of our heroes are dead"....well up to this point, we have assumed that they are talking about THEIR specific heroes. But what if the comment was a observation about society?

Callahan asking them, basically "What, are you in this for the glory? To be heroes?"

And they answered "No, in this day and age we wouldnt be recognized as heroes until we died. This isnt about glory or recognition..."

...meaning this was not a brash, young stupid group to mess with. They had a purpose, and not only that, DIDNT want the recognition for it.

They didnt want to be heroes....they just wanted justice.

[vik]

since they acted as a group therefore their heroes are something they would have discussed as a group and could be a variety of people - and maybe this distinguishes them from harry who is very much a loner and who probably wouldn't discuss or use it as an excuse to commit crime

[Agent]

Hey that's an interesting concept, bdc. Good points....

[Matt]

Thanks to everyone for participating in this discussion. This topic is now closed, please post any additional thoughts in the Dirty Harry forum.

[The Schofield Kid]

This topic has been temporarily unlocked.  Feel free to post any additional thoughts or discussion here.

[The Schofield Kid]

I've always thought the cops were referring to lawman of the wild west for some reason. I can't remember what Briggs says to Harry about the motives of these cops but something about 100 years ago they would have been praised for what they're doing.

I don't know, maybe that sounds too far fetched.