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Author Topic: The Outlaw Josey Wales  (Read 20171 times)
Wombat
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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2004, 05:24:03 AM »

One aspect of the acting that Clint has perfected is the facial expressions and mannerisms that convey so much.  For instance if you recall the start of Josey Wales, Clint does not say a word until he buries his Family and the first conversation is with 'Bloody Bill'.  And all he says to Bloody Bill is "I'll be going with ya".  But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind what Josey is feeling and what his immediate intentions are.  This aspect of all Clint's characters, in my opinion, far surpasses any other modern actor - male or female.
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2004, 09:05:24 PM »

I have to agree with you there. Clint always had an intense look about him. And when he'd channel those emmotions, they really guided the viewer. And according to clint, the emptiest barrels are usually the emptiest. So obviously, most of his characters don't have extensive lines. And this was really evident in OJW. He was pretty much on the top of his game (acting wise anyway)
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« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2004, 10:17:29 PM »

I have watched OJW at least 50 times. Joseys philosophy of life are words to live by.

Dying ain't much of a living.............boy
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Perry
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« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2004, 01:03:39 PM »

 ;D Hi Guys

Josey Wales to me is his best western and maybe his best movie. I remember seeing it 4 times when it came out in 1976. I think what I loved about it was the great performance of Chief Dan George. I am not sure If people realize what a great performance he gave and the dignity he showed as a an Native american which up intil that time was rarely if not ever shown, especially the sense of humor he exuded. I think what I remember was reading the Daily News that mrning and seeing the film critic Kathleen Carrols blurb "good Shot Clint"and giving the movie 3 stars. It was probably the firt time i ever saw a positive review for Eastwood ever. Rex Reed and that other imbecile Pauline Kael had always had a field day with Eastwood, though I have to admit I hated 'The Gauntlet " myself.
Josey Wales was a tremendous film and Eastwood's finest directing at that point. I still think its a better movie than Unforgivin. I like Unforgivin, but that movie lags a little in the middle. Two different films, but both greatly directed.

                        Perry
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Christopher
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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2010, 06:06:22 PM »

I finished the novel today. Here's from one of our discussion threads from back when we discussed The Outlaw Josey Wales:

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Unbeknownst to Eastwood, and nearly everyone else at the time, Forrest Carter had a secret past. Forrest Carter was born Asa (Ace) Earl Carter--in his past, he had been a professional racist, a segregationist, a founder of a Ku Klux Klan branch, and a speechwriter for George Wallace, in which capacity he had composed the celebrated line, "Segregation now! Segregation tomorrow! Segregation forever!" His claim of being half Indian was either a complete fabrication, or the truth, depending on whom you asked. Shortly after writing The Rebel Outlaw: Josey Wales, Carter published a book that would become a literary phenomenon: The Education of Little Tree: A True Story, a supposedly autobiographical account of Forrest (Little Tree) losing his parents during the Great Depression and growing up with his "Granma" and "Granpa" as he learns about nature and the Cherokee way of living in harmony with the earth. (It has subsequently been reissued as fiction.)

Although many would see only beauty and tolerance in Forrest Carter's writing, Philip Kaufman, who worked on The Outlaw Josey Wales screenplay, and was the original director was not as impressed:


Quote
"'Fascist' is an overworked word," says Kaufman from his California home, "but the first time I looked at that book that's what I thought: 'This was written by a crude fascist.' It was nutty. The man's hatred of government was insane. I felt that that element in the script needed to be severely toned down. But Clint didn't, and it was his movie." Eastwood eventually fired Kaufman and went on to direct himself.

I'm really intrigued with who Forrest Carter really was! I remember the point was made once on this board how a theme of the book is actually that all people can live peacefully together, and I got the same sense from the book. I do get a sense of the "hatred of government" that Kaufman talked about, but that really doesn't bother me.

I like the fact that the movie added to the ending, to make it a more satisfying movie or perhaps to give it a sense of closure. I did like the ending of the novel though. This is one instance where the movie actually darkened up the ending a bit since Wales actually does go off by himself in the end. I also liked the additional information about Ten Bears. He is a very interesting character and much of that was left out of the movie (and probably for good reason--it just may not have fit).

Who else has read the novel? I plan on watching the movie soon--I actually haven't seen it in a long time!
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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2010, 07:16:55 PM »

Here's a link to the post Christopher is quoting from, where you'll find a link to the source of the Philip Kaufman quote:

http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=2985.msg43740#msg43740
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« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2010, 08:32:25 PM »

Thanks Christopher,

I haven't read the book in about 20 years. I just got it down off the shelf after reading your post & I'm going to re read it again once I finish Huck Finn.
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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2010, 04:53:42 AM »

This was shown on UK Channel 5 in a series of Eastwood movies and I decided to watch it again.  It isn't one of my favourite movies but I did enjoy seeing it again.   Each time I watch one of Clint's movies I 'see' more into them and they take on a whole new dimension, as this one did.   I would like to see it on the big screen but doubt that will happen so will have to make do with DVD's and TV showings.  :(
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« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2010, 05:22:41 AM »

I would like to see it on the big screen but doubt that will happen so will have to make do with DVD's and TV showings.  :(

 Last year, I saw it on the big screen for a first time !  What a great one ! !   I have loved more that before! ( with DVD or TV )
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« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2010, 03:07:55 AM »

Just watched Josey Wales. It is a top film, enjoyed it a lot but in no way does it compare with so many of Clint's other movies - The Dirty Harry series, Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, The Gauntlet etc.

Josey is a fine film but doesn''t match a few others of his, in my opinion.
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« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2010, 10:18:17 PM »

One thing above all else in this film, is the fact it shows the truth about how the North killed Confederate troops after they surrendered. And that one thing that is a big black eye from the civil war that will never heal.
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bdc28
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« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2011, 08:26:31 AM »

Ahhhh, Josey Wales.

I would say probably one of the best westerns ever made.

This was one of the few movies that actually managed, at least in my humble opinion, to touch on the redemption of the human soul.

Josey Wales lost his family to the war. Clearly he was driven by hate and the desire to annhiliate anything relative to what, he deemed, relative to the death of his family, and therefore himself.

"Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms" was a great illustration of just how dark Josey's soul had become, and how heartless the war had made him. No forgiveness to enemies, not even in their death.

But a path that takes him out of the war, reconnects him to human beings. Even as the ghosts of his past in the war chase him down.

I think this movie truly speaks to a higher character in people...unparalleled movie.
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« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2011, 06:21:56 PM »

It's one of my favorite Eastwood films.  Back in the late 70s and early 80s when movie rentals were yet to come and theatrical movies were shown on tv a lot, OJW was one that seemed to be on "all the time" as the featured evening movie.   OJW, Every Which Way But Loose, The Gauntlet, The Enforcer, and Escape From Alcatraz were on so much that I knew them by heart.  The only other non-Eastwood movie that was on so much was Smokey and the Bandit. 
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Richard Earl
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« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2011, 08:58:55 PM »

Ahhhh, Josey Wales.

I would say probably one of the best westerns ever made.

This was one of the few movies that actually managed, at least in my humble opinion, to touch on the redemption of the human soul.

Josey Wales lost his family to the war. Clearly he was driven by hate and the desire to annhiliate anything relative to what, he deemed, relative to the death of his family, and therefore himself.

"Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms" was a great illustration of just how dark Josey's soul had become, and how heartless the war had made him. No forgiveness to enemies, not even in their death.

But a path that takes him out of the war, reconnects him to human beings. Even as the ghosts of his past in the war chase him down.

I think this movie truly speaks to a higher character in people...unparalleled movie.


Well put BDC!
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« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2011, 11:17:00 AM »

I finished the novel today. Here's from one of our discussion threads from back when we discussed The Outlaw Josey Wales:
 
I'm really intrigued with who Forrest Carter really was! I remember the point was made once on this board how a theme of the book is actually that all people can live peacefully together, and I got the same sense from the book. I do get a sense of the "hatred of government" that Kaufman talked about, but that really doesn't bother me.

I like the fact that the movie added to the ending, to make it a more satisfying movie or perhaps to give it a sense of closure. I did like the ending of the novel though. This is one instance where the movie actually darkened up the ending a bit since Wales actually does go off by himself in the end. I also liked the additional information about Ten Bears. He is a very interesting character and much of that was left out of the movie (and probably for good reason--it just may not have fit).

Who else has read the novel? I plan on watching the movie soon--I actually haven't seen it in a long time!

I just picked up the Blueray copy and have read the book. As for the film, I think it's one of Clint's finest films, enjoyable in every aspect. So many great, legendary lines. I've probably seen it one hundred times.  The film is true to the book except for two notable exceptions. There's no "Fletcher" in the book and no "Captain Redlegs," which means the scenes involving those two, especially the memorable final scenes where he kills the redleg and talks with Fletcher are not in the book. Neither is the scene where the guerillas are cut down by the Gatling gun.

As for the script writer that called Carter a "fascist," he obviously doesn't understand fascism too well. A fascist would support central government. Carter may have been racist, but he was probably more "anarchistic" in his views on government. Yet, the book is written true to the time in which it was set.  To assume views portrayed in a work of fiction are a reflection of the author's own views is ridiculous. It's fiction.
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Christopher
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« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2011, 07:26:40 PM »

Yeah, I agree that characters aren't necessarily going to reflect the person creating them.
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« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2011, 12:37:16 PM »

Am I the only one uncomfortable with the film's ending?  OJW is my second favorite behind The Good..., mainly because I don't think the ending made sense. 
Texas Rangers are taking a statement, with Fletcher, from the town guy (forget his name) that Josey was killed in Mexico. Josey walks in, still bleeding.  The Rangers (and Fletcher) didn't know that a raid just happened at the ranch?  And just like that the Rangers close the case? 
The timeline doesn't seem logical.   I always wrote it off as literary license, but after all these many years every time I watch the movie it bothers me  :(
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« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2012, 04:29:49 PM »

The ending is, indeed, murky..but I believe it to be intentionally so. I don't think Josey is dying (unlike another iconic western...Shane where the subject is still debated).
Historically speaking the Rangers fought with the confederacy & were, for a time, disbanded. So either the arc of the story is longer than it seems or Mr. Eastwood took liberties.
However that would mean that the "redlegs" may not have been in touch with the Rangers (believing them to be no better than other rebels).

Even with the death of Terrel Josey is likely to be haunted for years afterward (which was also part of the point made by the story), it seems unlikely that he will "settle down" & take up farming again.

There are those who would disagree & that is part of Mr. Eastwood's genius, he leaves the ending entirely up to the audience.
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« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2012, 04:44:49 PM »

Very well put, rojblake!

Fletcher surely knows what happened, but he is Josey's old comrade and elects not to betray him.
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Whistledixie
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« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2012, 11:01:57 AM »

Got to see part of Josey Wales a couple nights ago while visiting a friend with cable -- which sadly I don't, since AMC was running a "Crazy About Clint" marathon and playing a bunch of his flims! Alas...

Also realized I'd misquoted him awhile back when talking about my user name, and that the line isn't "You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" but is in fact "Well, you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?"

Apologies. I'll understand if I'm unforgiven...

« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 11:04:30 AM by Whistledixie » Logged
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