News: Having trouble registering?  Please feel free to contact us at help[at]clinteastwood.org.  We will help you get an account set up.


0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this board.
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 Go Down Print
Author Topic: SPOILERS thread for Million Dollar Baby Features (WARNING SPOILERS!!!)  (Read 40290 times)
Ornery Cuss
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3



View Profile Email
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2005, 01:49:12 PM »

Okay, I haven't seen Million Dollar Baby yet, but I caught a report on the controversy on CNN last night.  I am in a wheelchair, paralyzed from the chest down.  I can see where a quadraplegic paralyzed from the neck down would be thinking it's better to die than live like that.  I've thought that myself, and have thought about suicide a few times over the last 16 years.  But that would be MY choice.  Someone else, maybe not.  It is true that the suicide rates of spinal cord injury cases is very high in the first ten years following the injury.  But I believe that it is a peron's own right if they are sick or dying to have someone help them with suicide.  No one, and I mean NO ONE has the right to tell me what I can do to myself and what I can't.  The fact that this is even an issue is proposterous.  It's only a film.  As the New York Times article says, there was a film made all about assisted suicide, but yet no one has raised hell about it.  On one hand, we have all the disabilty spokespeople saying the film advocates assisted suicide.  Then we have the people who see it for what it really is-part of a character in a movie. That character did not want to live that way, and people that loved her and cherished her helped her to fulfill that wish.  I sit on the fence on the whole issue anymore.  I can see good and bad points to assisted suicide, but to use this film's popularity to slander Clint's name, there's no cause for it.  Thanks.
Logged

"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?"
gimpy
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 854


Tough IS Enough!


View Profile Email
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2005, 06:16:35 PM »

Okay, I haven't seen Million Dollar Baby yet, but I caught a report on the controversy on CNN last night.  I am in a wheelchair, paralyzed from the chest down.  I can see where a quadraplegic paralyzed from the neck down would be thinking it's better to die than live like that.  I've thought that myself, and have thought about suicide a few times over the last 16 years.  But that would be MY choice.  Someone else, maybe not.  It is true that the suicide rates of spinal cord injury cases is very high in the first ten years following the injury.  But I believe that it is a peron's own right if they are sick or dying to have someone help them with suicide.  No one, and I mean NO ONE has the right to tell me what I can do to myself and what I can't.  The fact that this is even an issue is proposterous.  It's only a film.  As the New York Times article says, there was a film made all about assisted suicide, but yet no one has raised hell about it.  On one hand, we have all the disabilty spokespeople saying the film advocates assisted suicide.  Then we have the people who see it for what it really is-part of a character in a movie. That character did not want to live that way, and people that loved her and cherished her helped her to fulfill that wish.  I sit on the fence on the whole issue anymore.  I can see good and bad points to assisted suicide, but to use this film's popularity to slander Clint's name, there's no cause for it.  Thanks.


great comment, pretty much sums it up  O0
Logged

"No one eats ketchup with their hotdogs!"
-Dirty Harry
Chessie
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2612


You're anything but a simple woman.


View Profile Email
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2005, 07:40:24 PM »

Okay I got two.

Last night, Leno had Clint promoting Million Dollar Baby.  It wasn't listed on the guide, so my mom had to wake me up at midnight to catch it, it was a funny interview.  Dirty Harry was brought up and that was humorous along with "What are you doing on Valentines Day Clint?"  Good try to catch it when it reruns.

Right now, Dennis Miller on CNBC has Paul Haggis and three other nominated screenwriters on his show.  They're all discussing their films and how long it took to write.  It's really good, Haggis just said that he really likes Clint and that Clint actually took the first draft of the screenplay. Very cool.  Dennis re-airs later tonight on the west coast, as for the east coast I don't know.

Hope you guys can catch these. 
Logged

The old dreams were good dreams; they didn't work out, but I'm glad I had them.  - Robert Kincaid, the Bridges of Madison County
Americanbeauty
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6309


There's a darkness inside all of us ...


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2005, 10:46:27 AM »

  I can see good and bad points to assisted suicide, but to use this film's popularity to slander Clint's name, there's no cause for it.
Exactly  O0
As you said Ornery Cuss, it's only a film.
Logged

Make-'em-run-around-the-block-howling-in-agony stunning

"He that hath no beard is less than a man, and he that is less than a man, I am not for him…" 'Much Ado About Nothing' Act 2, Scene I (William Shakespeare)

http://americanbphotography.tumblr.com/
Christopher
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6779



View Profile Email
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2005, 11:53:29 AM »

Last night, Leno had Clint promoting Million Dollar Baby.  It wasn't listed on the guide, so my mom had to wake me up at midnight to catch it, it was a funny interview.  Dirty Harry was brought up and that was humorous along with "What are you doing on Valentines Day Clint?"  Good try to catch it when it reruns.
Shoot, I didn't know he was supposed to be on any shows. I was up last night, but I never watch Leno unless I know ahead of time who's going to be on.
Logged
NewPatriot
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1


View Profile Email
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2005, 03:45:20 PM »

Rush Limbaugh tries to smear our man Eastwood, but it doesn't stick.

More info at:

http://www.newpatriot.us/node/17
Logged
KC
Administrator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 32408


Control ...


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2005, 08:34:20 PM »

The story NewPatriot links to in his blog (which you'll get to if you follow the link he posted) is by Frank Rich of The New York Times. It's going to be published in the paper this Sunday, February 13.  Here is the link directly to the story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/13/arts/13rich.html

The article has some excellent comments from Mr. Eastwood.  But, please be reminded that we do discourage not only political comments but "bashing" commentators of any political stripe, so please enjoy the article but refrain from commenting in a political manner.
Logged
KC
Administrator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 32408


Control ...


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2005, 08:44:05 PM »

I think the Frank Rich article (link above) is really excellent. Here are some excerpts:

Quote
"What do you have to give these people to make them happy?" Mr. Eastwood asked when I phoned to get his reaction to his new status as a radical leftist. He is baffled that those "who expound from the right on American values" could reject a movie about a heroine who is "willing to pull herself up by the bootstraps, to work hard and persevere no matter what" to realize her dream. "That all sounds like Americana to me, like something out of Wendell Willkie," he says. "And the villains in the movie include people who are participating in welfare fraud."

What galls the film's adversaries - or so they say - is a turn in the plot that they started giving away on the radio and elsewhere in December, long before it started being mentioned in articles like the one you're reading now. They hoped to "spoil" the movie and punish it at the box office, though there's no evidence that they have succeeded. As Mr. Eastwood has pointed out, advance knowledge of the story's ending did nothing to deter the audience for "The Passion of the Christ." My own experience is that knowing the ultimate direction of "Million Dollar Baby" - an organic development that in no way resembles a plot trick like that in "The Sixth Sense" - only deepened my second viewing of it.

Here is what so scandalously intrudes in the final third of Mr. Eastwood's movie: real life. A character we love - and we love all three principals, including the narrator, an old boxing hand played by Morgan Freeman - ends up in the hospital with a spinal-cord injury and wants to die. Whether that wish will be granted, and if so, how, is the question that confronts not just the leading characters but also a young and orthodox Roman Catholic priest (Brian F. O'Byrne). The script, adapted by Paul Haggis from stories by F. X. Toole, has a resolution, as it must. But the movie has a powerful afterlife precisely because it is not an endorsement of any position on assisted suicide - or, for that matter, of any position on the disabled, as some disability-rights advocates have charged in a separate protest. The characters of "Million Dollar Baby" are complex and fictional, not monochromatic position papers outfitted in costumes, and the film no more endorses their fallible behavior and attitudes than "Ray" approves of its similarly sympathetic real-life hero's heroin addiction and compulsive womanizing.

"I never thought about the political side of this when making the film," Mr. Eastwood says. He is both bemused and concerned that a movie with no political agenda should be construed by some as a polemic and arouse such partisan rage. "Maybe I'm getting to the age when I'm starting to be senile or nostalgic or both, but people are so angry now," he adds. "You used to be able to disagree with people and still be friends. Now you hear these talk shows, and everyone who believes differently from you is a moron and an idiot - both on the right and the left." His own politics defy neat categorization. He's supported Democrats (including Gray Davis in the pre-Schwarzenegger era) as well as Republicans, professes the libertarian creed of "less government" and "was never a big enthusiast for going to Iraq but never spoke against it once the troops were there." In other words, he's in the same middle as most Americans. "I vote for what I like," he says. "I'm not a loyalist to any party. I'm only a loyalist to the country."


Quote
It's a standard tactic for these holier-than-thou bullies to cite movies they don't like as proof that, in Mr. Medved's formulation, "the entertainment industry" is "not in touch with the general public." The industry's profits prove exactly the reverse, but never mind. Even in this case, were Mr. Eastwood's film actually an endorsement of assisted suicide, the public would still be on his side, not his critics'. The latest Gallup poll on the subject, taken last year, shows that 53 percent of Americans find assisted suicide "morally acceptable" as opposed to the 41 percent who find it "morally wrong." (The figures for Catholics are identical).

But the most unintentionally revealing attacks on "Million Dollar Baby" have less to do with the "right to die" anyway than with the film's advertising campaign. It's "the 'million-dollar' lie," wrote one conservative commentator, Debbie Schlussel, saying that the film's promotion promises " 'Rocky' in a sports bra" while delivering a "left-wing diatribe" indistinguishable from the message sent by the Nazis when they "murdered the handicapped and infirm." Mr. Medved concurs. "They can't sell this thing honestly," he has said, so "it's being marketed as a movie all about the triumph of a plucky female boxer." The only problem with this charge is that it, too, is false. As Mr. Eastwood notes, the film's dark, even grim poster is "somewhat noiresque" and there's "nobody laughing and smiling and being real plucky" in a trailer that shows "triumph and struggles" alike.

What really makes these critics hate "Million Dollar Baby" is not its supposedly radical politics - which are nonexistent - but its lack of sentimentality. It is, indeed, no "Rocky," and in our America that departure from the norm is itself a form of cultural radicalism. Always a sentimental country, we're now living fulltime in the bathosphere. Our 24/7 news culture sees even a human disaster like the tsunami in Asia as a chance for inspirational uplift, for "incredible stories of lives saved in near-miraculous fashion," to quote NBC's Brian Williams. (The nonmiraculous stories are already forgotten, now that the media carnival has moved on.)


Quote
There's no dream team, either in the boxing arena or in the emergency room, in "Million Dollar Baby." While there is much to admire in the year's other Oscar-nominated movies - the full-bodied writing in "Sideways," the cinematic bravura of "The Aviator," the awesome Jamie Foxx in "Ray" - Mr. Eastwood's film, while also boasting great acting, is the only one that challenges America's current triumphalist daydream. It does so not because it has any politics or takes a stand on assisted suicide but because it has the temerity to suggest that fights can have consequences, that some crises do not have black-and-white solutions and that even the pure of heart are not guaranteed a Hollywood ending. What makes some feel betrayed and angry after seeing "Million Dollar Baby" is exactly what makes many more stop and think: one of Hollywood's most durable cowboys is saying that it's not always morning in America, and that it may take more than faith to get us through the night.
Logged
Americanbeauty
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6309


There's a darkness inside all of us ...


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2005, 12:30:05 PM »

That's a great article indeed  O0 O0

Very well written to boot  ... and with interesting bits of interview with Eastwood ... nice to find out more about his opinion concerning that controversy surrounding Million Dollar Baby.

I particularly like the conclusion ... one sentence to say it all :

Quote
one of Hollywood's most durable cowboys is saying that it's not always morning in America, and that it may take more than faith to get us through the night.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2005, 02:31:37 PM by Americanbeauty » Logged

Make-'em-run-around-the-block-howling-in-agony stunning

"He that hath no beard is less than a man, and he that is less than a man, I am not for him…" 'Much Ado About Nothing' Act 2, Scene I (William Shakespeare)

http://americanbphotography.tumblr.com/
exit00
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 489


Dying ain't much of a livin'


View Profile Email
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2005, 01:28:44 PM »

I also like this article a lot.... it seems to "tell it like it is". Clint said it best when he talks about these people who unless they get somthing 100% to their view or liking, the other person must be a moron or idiot.  Whatever happened to OPINIONS in this country... oh, well....

I also think it's hilarious that people are getting so upset thinking that this movie is going to be another Rocky and then it throws them for a loop.  How dare a movie surprise us and takes us where we didn't expect to go.  How dare a movie not tell us every little detail and make us (in the words of John Prine) "happy as a lark".   Yeah, most of us like feel-good movies sometimes  but a real film lover will also love movies that challenge us and make us think.

But I like the way this article combines quotes from Clint with the "controversies" out there.  Thanks for posting this.
Logged
vik
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2802


flags of our fathers


View Profile Email
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2005, 01:57:05 PM »

yeh its a great article

i guess america is changing rapidly like here and its about people getting upset about anything and everything - really the world needs to slow down abit

but good on clint giving us a really good movie
Logged

england -  its flag the St George flag
Americanbeauty
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6309


There's a darkness inside all of us ...


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2005, 02:32:50 PM »

How dare a movie surprise us and takes us where we didn't expect to go. 
I wonder   ::)
Logged

Make-'em-run-around-the-block-howling-in-agony stunning

"He that hath no beard is less than a man, and he that is less than a man, I am not for him…" 'Much Ado About Nothing' Act 2, Scene I (William Shakespeare)

http://americanbphotography.tumblr.com/
gimpy
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 854


Tough IS Enough!


View Profile Email
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2005, 07:15:50 PM »

The most obscene comment by far: "Rocky in a sports bra." MDB totally knocks out Rocky, no doubt about it.
Logged

"No one eats ketchup with their hotdogs!"
-Dirty Harry
FloridaGator
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6



View Profile Email
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2005, 08:17:23 PM »

I just saw Million Dollar Baby.

As a pastor, I wanted to comment on this thread.

That being said, no one has to agree with anything I type. And, in the end, I might be wrong. Truth will never change to accomodate what I believe truth to be.

I did not in any way find this movie morally offensive. Life is not lived in black and white. The world is not just. Bad things happen to good people. This movie captures that.

Knee jerk reactions to all issues are never a good idea. Most of us, unless we have personally experienced it,  do not know what we would if we were ever actually placed in Maggie and Frankie's situation. I remember when my father was in the hospital dying of cancer and screaming because morphine couldn't touch his pain. If he had asked me to assist in suicide, would I have done it? I'm not sure.

Was Frankie really lost after he assisted in Maggie's death? If we are talking from a Christian perspective, God's grace and redemption are available to all no matter what one does. God never writes anyone off.

Does God understand Frankie's decision? I think so. In the end, it is not up to us to say Frankie will be doomed forever. God will decide that.

This decision obviously pained Frankie. He didn't do it impulsively. He did it out of love.  I think that counts for something with God.

In this life, each of us has to do what we think is right and morally acceptable. We are called to love each other, which is what these characters did. I don't think anyone could argue with that. God will sort the rest of it out.

I think this movie is a great morality tale that forces viewers out of their comfort zones to grapple with complex issues.

Thank you, Mr. Eastwood.

Grace and Peace,
Sarah

Logged
vik
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2802


flags of our fathers


View Profile Email
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2005, 01:23:03 AM »

yeh nicely put

a great director makes a great movie
Logged

england -  its flag the St George flag
Americanbeauty
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6309


There's a darkness inside all of us ...


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2005, 12:10:19 PM »

Most of us, unless we have personally experienced it,  do not know what we would if we were ever actually placed in Maggie and Frankie's situation.
Absolutely.

Too bad some people out here are so too narrow-minded that they completely forgot about that :(
Logged

Make-'em-run-around-the-block-howling-in-agony stunning

"He that hath no beard is less than a man, and he that is less than a man, I am not for him…" 'Much Ado About Nothing' Act 2, Scene I (William Shakespeare)

http://americanbphotography.tumblr.com/
warren218
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21



View Profile Email
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2005, 07:51:30 AM »

Saw MDB last night - needless to say Clint triumphs again both as director and star - I know he's an outsider so far as the Oscar noms go but I really think he's in with a shot.  We all know he wuz robbed over Unforgiven, not to knock Pacino for his great performance but Clint was better, 'nuff said anyway, was 12 years ago.  But he's very convincing here and played perhaps the most emotionally charged part I've seen him in and got it just right.

Anyway, did think the movie was hard going although was prepared for it somewhat, hearing a family member's appraisal for it being a 'sad' film plus a rewiew that called it 'harrowing'.  Which it is - paraplegism, if that's the word, causes a formerly independent and functional person to be completely dependent and a fiery, competitive character such as played by Hilary Swank would find it all the more hard going to exist in this physical state.

Which is why it irked me a little when I came back from the movie and checked out some reviews and cam across disability groups calling Clint a 'Million Dollar Bigot' and others criticizing the decision made in the film to terminate Maggie's life on her request.  The argument made is that this film, alongside the Javier Bardem? movie, shows that fully dependent paralysis victims can't enjoy their life and should be 'put down' or relieved of their misery.

One thing that has always struck me about Clint's career is how he's been so misunderstood throughout.  If it isn't that he's a right-wing nut-job in the Dirty Harry days it's that he advocates euthanasia now and has shares the viewpoints and personas of his characters.  Every movie is an exploration of what the characters would do, and how they would react in a situation according to their strength or weakness of character.  Very few film stars, including one of Clint's status, are actively seeking to impose their will and beliefs on their films, therefore it's not a reflection of how Clint would act, let's say if his own daughter were in that situation.

The paralysis issue has been much in the headlines anyway, what with the sad passing of Christopher Reeve last year.  At the end of the day, Reeve spent nine years of his life paralysed from the neck down and then died.  That isn't right - despite the steps he made to recovery and the strides he made for public awareness, he lost his life and his fight.  Although a very courageous man, he had to suffer the indignities of being assisted for every part of his daily life, washed, going to the bathroom, everything.  That isn't fun, that isn't enjoyable and he, like Maggie in the film was a very able sportsman and parallels can almost be drawn.  So when Maggie makes the decision in the film it is down to her own viewpoints about her own validity as a person (she only feels worthy due to the love the crowd give her).  It's not indicative of EVERY single paralysis victim's thoughts and the film is not trying to represent them all.  And if Clint went against the book's conclusion and had her walking around again happy, returning to the ring and getting the title, that would have sold out the author's intent, and Clint has too much integrity in his work to do that.

So enough of this political correctness issue, time has shown people have been misinformed about Clint's work and it will again anyway.  I know I'm biased about Clint, to me he can do no wrong, but I'd say the same if it were Mel Gibson in the role or whoever.  It's just one film, one character's choice and movies are not meant to be the medium in which all opinion should be centered.  So  >:( to his critics and  O0 come Oscar night for all of us and the man himself.

P.S. Sad to read about John Vernon too.  Would have thought him older than Clint, that's a shame.
Logged

I don't think it's nice, you laughing
exit00
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 489


Dying ain't much of a livin'


View Profile Email
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2005, 01:40:22 PM »

You've said what both Clint fans and knowledgeable film fans have always known.  When he made Dirty Harry, he was called a fascist, making Every Which Way But Loose was considered a dumb move before it came out, and now the crap with Million Dollar Baby about assisted suicide. 

He just makes movies which almost always tells some original and intriguing story.  They can be comedies, dramas, or action vehicles... and usually a blend of all three.

One of the aspects of his films which I have always felt was underappreciated or ignored is the high amount of humor that they have.  Even with the moving, emotional and downbeat story of Million Dollar Baby, the movie has more real humor in it than most films.... counting comedies!! 
Logged
Lin Sunderland
Guest


Email
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2005, 01:42:59 PM »

One of the aspects of his films which I have always felt was underappreciated or ignored is the high amount of humor that they have. Even with the moving, emotional and downbeat story of Million Dollar Baby, the movie has more real humor in it than most films.... counting comedies!!

Too right    O0
Logged
gimpy
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 854


Tough IS Enough!


View Profile Email
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2005, 02:52:24 PM »

Yea I think without the humor in the MDB, it would have been kinda dull. Clint and Morgan are hilarious with the rip in Freeman's socks.
Logged

"No one eats ketchup with their hotdogs!"
-Dirty Harry
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 Go Up Print 
 




C L I N T E A S T W O O D . N E T