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Author Topic: Clint's Guns  (Read 349651 times)
TWOMULES
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« Reply #280 on: October 14, 2011, 05:30:07 AM »

I have just added a 1851 Navy Colt  to my small gun collection. I am not sure but it looks like the one Blondy uses in The Good the Bad and the Ugly.  :)



   
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« Reply #281 on: October 14, 2011, 01:09:24 PM »

It's very nice, 2M! O0 It looks heavy :o
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« Reply #282 on: October 15, 2011, 03:36:13 AM »

It's very nice, 2M! O0 It looks heavy :o

Thanks, Aline. :) You are right it is quite heavy.
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The Schofield Kid
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« Reply #283 on: October 15, 2011, 03:40:04 AM »

   

I think we've finally found who is actually holding the gun during the credits of Magnum Force!!  :D
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« Reply #284 on: October 15, 2011, 03:44:01 AM »

How can you tell? :D ;D
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« Reply #285 on: October 15, 2011, 03:53:29 AM »

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« Reply #286 on: October 15, 2011, 04:04:26 AM »

 ;D That's amazing, look at my little finger. :o
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« Reply #287 on: January 06, 2012, 12:53:43 PM »

Ok, here's my question. In Pale Rider, the Preacher of course uses the Remington New Army pistol with interchangable cylinders. But I believe he may also be using another revolver, and in two different scenes(maybe three).
This would be the gun he uses to rescue young Megan from Josh at the La Hood ming camp. Take a look at that pistol. It is noticably smaller than the Remington. Shorter barrel, smaller frame, etc.

Then in the ending scene, the Preacher pulls a gun from his waistband to fire the final headshot at Marshall Stockburn.
Again, it does not appear to be a Remington New Army. We also see a second revolver earlier when the Preacher retrieves his guns from the bank safe deposit box.
So....any quesses as to what that pistol may be? I have no clue myself.



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« Reply #288 on: January 06, 2012, 09:54:46 PM »

Hi, fuel ... According to the following post, the small revolver is a modified 1858 Remington Pocket Pistol. Unfortunately, the pictures identified as the 1858 Remington Pocket Pistol and the "actual rig" Clint wore are no longer showing.

... The small pistol that Clint carried in Pale Rider was not a Baby Dragoon, which has a square trigger guard.

 The small pistol he carried was a modified 1858 Rem Pocket Pistol I posted in my first post.

When I first seen the movie I thought it was a 1849 Pocket Pistol .  It does not match if you compare the system under the barrel. That is the same system found on the large model just at a reduced size on the Pocket Pistol. Also look at the pistol grip area and the classic Remington top strap above the cylinder.

-1849 Pocket Pistol-


-1858- Rem Pocket Pistol


-Actual rig he wore-


Conclusion is a modified 1858 Rem Pocket Pistol.

This conclusion is confirmed by the Internet Movie Firearms Database:

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Pale_Rider

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Preacher (Clint Eastwood) uses a Remington 1858 Pocket .31 caliber as a backup, carrying it stuck into his belt. The gun used has had a regular trigger with trigger-guard fitted in place of factory stud-trigger. Like all the other guns in the film, it is converted to fire metallic cartridges.


Remington 1858 Pocket Percussion - .31 Caliber.


Preacher's Remington 1858 Pocket stuck in his belt.


A closer shot of the Remington Pocket stuck in Preacher's belt as he draws his full sized Remington on Stockburn (John Russell).
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« Reply #289 on: January 07, 2012, 03:02:09 PM »

Hi, fuel ... According to the following post, the small revolver is a modified 1858 Remington Pocket Pistol. Unfortunately, the pictures identified as the 1858 Remington Pocket Pistol and the "actual rig" Clint wore are no longer showing.
Thanks, KC. I missed that post. Certainly answers my question. An 1858 Remington pocket pistol, in .31 calibur? Now that is collectors piece!
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« Reply #290 on: January 16, 2012, 06:58:46 PM »

For those who are interested, & have the funds, the man with no name pistol reproduction is available with or without snake

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Conversions/ManNo%20NameConv.htm

Interesting bit of trivia, the same snake inlay was on Jim West's pistol in the TV series Wild Wild West.
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« Reply #291 on: February 15, 2012, 04:05:06 AM »

I have just added a 1851 Navy Colt  to my small gun collection. I am not sure but it looks like the one Blondy uses in The Good the Bad and the Ugly.  :)



   

I have had some puzzlement about Blondie's gun. I am the happy owner of a repro 1851 Navy Colt in 44 rather than the historically correct 36. It is a sweet shooting gun even with a full maximum 40 grain powder charge.

The caps of Blondie's gun raise some questions.

The octagonal barrel is unmistakenly 51 navy. However, the cylinder on Blondie's gun looks longer. And the cylinder lacks the step, or, rebate, that my modern repro 44 has. To the best of my knowledge  ::) the 51 Navy was never made by Colt in 44 and so never had a non-straight cylinder. Of course, my vaunted repro faux Navy has a stepped frame to fit the stepped cylinder.

If I was a bounty hunter in about 1861 or 1862, I would not settle for a 36 when a 44 on the same gun frame would actually be a few ounces lighter and  somewhat more powerful in knock-down ability.

The Dragoon was made from 1848 in 44, and had a straight cylinder and frame.

So, I am entertaining the idea that Blondie's gun was, for whatever reason, a 3rd model Dragoon (round trigger guard) frame , with, for whatever reason, a Navy barrel bored out to 44 (or thereabouts), and a custom gunsmith cylinder  to accommodate one of the 44 (or thereabouts) cartridges extant in the early 60s.

Not a Walker frame? Well, the Walkers all had square back trigger guards, as did the Dragoon 1st and 2nd Models. Besides, since there were only 1100 Walkers made, and they had a deserved reputation for blowing up and taking the shooter's hand clean off, they were both hard to come across and perceived as dangerous to use.

I'm having a persistent fantasy about about obtaining a safe repro Walker and transplanting my beautiful octagonal Navy barrel onto the beautiful square trigger guard Walker frame.  :D
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« Reply #292 on: February 15, 2012, 07:53:32 PM »

The "deserved reputation" of the Walker Colt is alluded to in Unforgiven. ;)

D'Ambrosia, who started this thread, had a detailed post about Blondie's gun back on the first page; did you see that?

http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=4347.msg12629#msg12629
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« Reply #293 on: February 16, 2012, 01:02:51 AM »

The "deserved reputation" of the Walker Colt is alluded to in Unforgiven. ;)

D'Ambrosia, who started this thread, had a detailed post about Blondie's gun back on the first page; did you see that?

http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?topic=4347.msg12629#msg12629

The "deserved reputation" is historical fact. The Walker failures are attributed to manufacturing tolerances being exceeded leaving some cylinder's chamber walls too thin, and, to faulty heat-treating of the cylinders. It was a somewhat regular thing for company commanders to ship the blown out Walkers back to Colt for repair. I have fired 40 grains  in my 51 Navy and it is quite a show. I reckon 60 grains full load in a Walker is something to fear if it blows out (the blowout could perhaps go into an adjacent chamber or chambers and lead to a fearsome chain fire). I figure that the present day repro Walkers are made carefully enough to be safe. The Walker failures prompted the Army and Colt to make the Dragoon in 1848 which had a smaller max charge of only  :o  50 grains and presumably had much improved manufacturing methods. Also...the Walker had an inept loading rod hold-up which often let the loading rod drop down and jam the gun. Not good luck at all in a rapid fire combat situation.

Thanks for the alert on the gun post. As a matter of fact it is that very post that impressed me so much that I wanted to join when I read it about a week or two ago after stumbling over this Forum by pure luck.

There are two concurrent lines of thought about historical accuracy in GBU.

1...The gun actually used may not be exactly historically accurate: The repro gun maker may indeed have provided an anachronism for various reasons. The D'ambrosia pic looks like it has a straight cylinder and frame cutout which would be accurate for the original Navy in its 36 caliber. And then the custom conversion cylinder could have been easily conformed to readily available modern 38 special cartridges (movie blanks of course). And....   

2...A real bounty hunter in 1862 would, in my opinion (yeah I have an opinion, Clint himself said so!  ;D) have chosen no smaller gun than a 44 for its superior knockdown. So, seeing a Colt in Blondie's hand, I figure that a real Blondie would have had a Walker, a Dragoon, or a really hot-rodded customized Navy. A real Blondie would have shied away from the Walker on its aforementioned several counts. A Dragoon would have appealed with its large 50 grain full charge. And a clever shootist would have realized that a bored out Navy barrel would weigh a few ounces less than the Dragoon barrel. You never know when the smallest advantage might mean the difference between success and failure. So, a Dragoon frame with a Dragoon sized cylinder and a grafted on Navy barrel bored out to 44 would provide a maxxed out firepower and also would match the pic (which looks to me to have a cylinder longer than a regular Navy cylinder.) Historically, in 1862 a real Blondie would have had better luck acquiring 44 cartridges than 36 Specials  ;D. And when he could not find cartridges, he could pop in the nice big 50 grain standard Dragoon cylinder.

Something thing that has impressed me generally in CE westerns, and especially in Josey Wales and in Unforgiven is the attention to every detail of the movie shoot so that they are genuine "period-pieces". It is very easy to be transported in the imagination to have a sense of actually living in 1862 or whatever year and experience the same cold or rain or lack of every modern convenience, in a CE western. Film-making at its best.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 01:47:48 AM by The Man With No Aim » Logged

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« Reply #294 on: February 16, 2012, 07:55:31 AM »

Remember that (unlike Manco) Blondie may not even be a "real" bounty hunter ... the only bounties we ever see him collect are the ones on Tuco, which he then proceeds to divvy up with the culprit, after freeing him with some spectacular rifle shooting. And later on, he's working the same scam with "Shorty" when Tuco captures him.

But that's a great post ...  D'Ambrosia isn't around much any more, so maybe you could take over as our resident gun expert.
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« Reply #295 on: February 17, 2012, 02:12:46 AM »

KC...You made a very good point about the movie not actually making Blondie a full blooded bounty hunter per se. I had in mind to say that he was in some line of work in which it seemed to be advantageous to carry some iron and be able to outshoot some people who kept on showing up trying to shoot him first. Although, as a number of very interesting Threads and posts round here have pointed out, the Trilogy does seem to hint that Blondie is the younger Manco and Joe who, in the plot-line later films, was a bone fide bounty hunter / mercenary gunfighter. Like Paladin  :D.

In the schema of the film GBU without my exaggerated speculation, I stand by my opinion and my other thing, too, that Blondie would have been thoughtful to have weaponry that he could be confident in to give him an edge when the adversaries came a-shooting. I have been noticing  ;) that a lot of them kept on trying to do that.

About that expert thing. You are a very generous (and optimistic) person. But, a man has got to know his limitations  8). Somewhere on the way to becoming the old worn out man that I am, I somehow learned something . I learned just how little I have learned. I am always glad to share any knowledge that I happen to have with anyone else to help them out. But to be in the limelight as some kind of an acclaimed "expert" is a responsibility that I am shy about. Just think of me as a guy who has learned a little bit about a gun or two and who will always be glad to try to helpfully contribute to a discussion if I can.  
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 02:20:54 AM by The Man With No Aim » Logged

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« Reply #296 on: February 23, 2012, 10:03:29 PM »

Hi what size ammo does this gun use and does it have a big kick to it .Just wondering if a little lady like my self could
handle. :)
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« Reply #297 on: February 24, 2012, 02:11:01 AM »

Just a bit of historical interjection here...James Butler Hickock (AKA Wild Bill or Duck Bill) carried & used the Navy .36's for the majority of his career. He was deadly accurate & seems not to have had a desire for the .44's.

Perhaps the reduced recoil improved his shooting accuracy? Also the reduced weight might have been better for "draw" situations (Although Wild Bill was not noted for being fast)
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« Reply #298 on: February 25, 2012, 04:24:04 PM »

Quote
Something thing that has impressed me generally in CE westerns, and especially in Josey Wales and in Unforgiven is the attention to every detail of the movie shoot so that they are genuine "period-pieces". It is very easy to be transported in the imagination to have a sense of actually living in 1862 or whatever year and experience the same cold or rain or lack of every modern convenience, in a CE western. Film-making at its best.

I hadn't caught this before, & I feel the need to interject. The Outlaw Josey Wales is my favorite Clint western, but the firearms used are often highly inaccurate for the period.

Forgiving some of the cartridge conversions (Like Clint's Walkers) that were simply changed cylinders etc. Many of the weapons used were absolutely WRONG!

The year would have been 1865-66 when the ambush occures & Josey's unit is wiped out..before that Josey pulls a Richards-Mason 1860 army conversion that wouldn't exist until 1872-73. (Probably used to save reloading/shooting time for the practice sequence). The problem is that the same & similar conversions show up in the hands of at least half a dozen characters in the film..Including Lone Watie & Moonlight (Not peripheral characters by any means).

Josey's rifle is an 1874 Sharps, a cartridge model that wouldn't exist for almost a decade (The Sharps rifle did exist of course but as a cap & ball weapon).

Unforgiven is much more historically accurate; but as it was set in a later time period the firearms & their replicas are much more readily available..the stand out for me was the Spencer rifle..when Unforgiven was made the replica Schofield had recently been offered as a replica..but not the Spencer (it is now though).
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« Reply #299 on: February 25, 2012, 04:50:05 PM »

Just skimmed some of GBU, Eli has a '51 Navy unconverted..uses percussion caps.

Lee Van Cleef is using an 1858 Remington with a drop-in conversion Cylinder (If you watch the finale this is very clear..the "nipples" aren't pronounced enough to hold caps).

Clint is using an 1851 Colt Navy conversion, in at least 1 scene you see the loading gate, & in the finale the rear of the cylinder is visible & it is flush; probably chambered in .38 Long Colt.
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