Clint's Guns

[Lilly]

Wow that's really cool, mifune!

Don't worry about your English - it's good enough for me!  It's always good to hear from members in different countries, especially with nice info like you have.

As you are from Japan, you must be looking forward to the two new Eastwood movies, especially Red Sun, Black Sand.  Good to have another Japanese member on the board.

[palooka]

Nice one Mifune! 

[D'Ambrosia]

Firefox 1982  The most devastating killing machine ever built...his job...steal it!

It’s interesting that in this movie each time Clint wields a weapon it seems to trigger his delusional post-traumatic stress disorder.





The first weapon we see Gant at the beginning of the movie is obviously a shotgun.  I recruited some help from my friends over at Shotgun World in helping me identify this particular gun.  The general consensus over there is that it is a Remington 870, old combat version with extended magazine tube for a bayonet.


The Remington 870 shotgun has been around for almost half a century, and has become the best-selling shotgun of any type in history, with over seven million made.  The Remington 870 was the fourth major design in a successive line of Remington pump shotguns. John Pedersen designed the fragile Model 10 (later the improved model 29). Working with John Browning, Pedersen also helped design the Model 17 which was adopted by Ithaca as the Ithaca 37 and also served as the basis for the Remington 31. The Model 31 was an excellent shotgun, but struggled for sales in the shadow of the Winchester Model 12. Remington sought to correct that by introducing a modern, streamlined, rugged, reliable, and relatively inexpensive shotgun, the 870 Wingmaster in 1950.
Sales of the Remington 870 have been steady. They reached 2 million guns by 1973 (ten times the number of Model 31 shotguns it replaced). By 1996, spurred by the basic "Express" model, sales topped seven million guns.


Specifications
·   Caliber: 12, 16, 20, 28, and .410 gauge
·   Operation: Pump-action
·   Magazine capacity: 3-6 shells, depending on model and shell length.
·   Weight: 3–3.5 kg




Next we see Gant getting clean with the famous Walther PP(Polizei Pistole).

 It’s shorter cousin, the PPK(Polizei Pistole Kurz), is the gun James Bond skepicly takes by order of M in the novel Casino Royal (in the Bond movies he aquries it in Dr. No) because of his Bretta .25 jamming all the time in curcial situations.  What the Bond movies did for the Walther is almost eqviaent to what Dirty Harry did for the .44 Magnum.  The difference in the PP and the PPK is only in size and magizine capasity(the PPK holding one less bullet)

Intoduced in 1929 (’31 for the PPK) the Walther PP was the first sucessful double action automatic, meaning one does not have to cock the pistol to fire it, you can simply pull the trigger.  It quickly became extermly pouplur with the German Military, or as I call them, Nazi’s, due to it’s extream reliablilty and ease of concelment.  During WW2 the PP’s and PPK’s were issued to German military police personnel, high military officers and other military personnel. Hitler used his PPK to off himself during the final days of the War.  The PP and PPK are blowback operated handguns. Both have chamber loaded indicator, external hammer, manual safety and out of battery safety. The manual safety is somewhat odd, because it has to be turned UP to be set to fire position, instead of common down direction.

The model we see Gant with is the .32 Caliber ACP

Specifications
·   Type: Double Action
·   Caliber: .22LR or 6.35mm auto (.25 ACP) or 7.65mm (.32ACP) or 9x17mm (.380 ACP, 9mmkz)
·   Length overall: 173mm PP, 154 mm PPK
·   Mass: 682g PP, 568g PPK
·   Barrel length: 99mm PP, 84mm PPK
·   Capacity: 8 (PP), 6+1 (PPK) rounds
The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-31



The Mig 31 is a flying arsonal capable of stealth (limited because of the powerful engines) and hypersonic flight. It allows the pilot to control weapons and other flight systems via thought, with the caveat that the system only understands thoughts in the Russian language, leading to the training mantra for foreign pilots: "Think in Russian!"


The MiG-31's main armament is four Vympel R-33 (AA-9 'Amos') air-to-air missiles carried under the belly. The R-33 is the Russian equivalent of the United States Navy AIM-54 Phoenix. It can be guided in semi-active radar homing (SARH) mode, or launched in inertial guidance mode with the option of mid-course updates from the launch aircraft. It switches on its own active radar for the terminal homing phase


Other weapons include the old R-40 (AA-6 'Acrid'), originally deployed on the MiG-25.



The R-60 (AA-8 'Aphid') or R-73 (AA-11 'Archer') short-range missiles, carried on wing pylons.


And the R-77 (AA-12 'Adder') also on the wing pylons.


The MiG-31 has an internal cannon, a six-barrel GSh-6-23 with 260 rounds of ammunition, mounted above the starboard main landing gear bay. The GSh-6-23 has a claimed rate of fire of over 8,000 rounds per minute.


Credits and References coming soon...

[KyleMoss]

After re-visiting this thread alter more than a year...
I've always thought it was a roller, or a high wall or any one of the many other lesser known design that look similar. But after looking at that one frame, I don't know.

While I've never seen one with an octagon barrel, what he's got in his hands looks more like a Peabody than anything else.


Thing is there are so many other designs, it could be just about anything.

[josey wales 1963]

clint's pretty good with"a nice peace of hickory"too!
ask the semipros he beat the hell out of in unforgiven.

[KC]

clint's pretty good with"a nice peace of hickory"too!
ask the semipros he beat the hell out of in unforgiven.

I think you mean Pale Rider. In Unforgiven, the one who gets the hell beaten out of him is Clint.

[William Barney]

 ;DI think in one of his movies he had used a colt pistol in one of his movies I watched
I also watched dirty hairy he had used these guns too  I love Clint's older movies but all
He is a dam good actor I had missed some of his other movies like million dollar baby which was a true
movie I had watched his interview of that movie never watched it

what else did he used for guns  in other movies?

[KC]

William, if you read through this whole thread starting on Page 1, you can find out a lot about the guns he used in most of his movies up through the early 1980s.

[Dirty Harry Callahan]

wow those are soe nice gun..thanks

[D'Ambrosia]

Sudden Impact 1983





Now we come to Sudden Impact and Harry is sporting the look of the “in 80’s” stainless steel.  I have had discussions in the past with various gun enthusiasts as to whether or not the .44 magnum revolver Harry uses in the famous coffee shop scene is a stainless steel model 629 or if it is his old reliable model 29.  Regardless of the cosmetics I think it’s safe to say that whether it’s stainless or blued the criminals on the receiving end don’t much care.  However, for argument sake, I have watched the coffee shop scene over and over again and I am personally convinced he is using a stainless steel model in that particular scene.  People in the past have told me that it’s just the lighting in that scene or the angle at which it is shot but I still beg to differ.  I have had an 8 X 10 Glossy (Kodak paper) of the famous “Go ahead, make my day” shot since ’88 and it looks like stainless steel in that photo.  Regardless of what I think we live in a democracy and I am going to be outvoted on this one but for the record I’ll stick with my 629 theory.


Smith and Wesson Model 629

Let’s move on to the AutoMag, Harry’s new toy. 
The .44 Magnum Automag

The .44 Automag was originally created in the late 60's by the Pasadena Corporation.  After the Pasadena days, several companies had their own version of the firearm, including:  TDE North Hollywood, TDE El Monte, High Standard, TDE / OMC, and AMT.
Contrary to popular belief, the automag used in Sudden Impact was neither a Pasadena model, nor an AMT (although I have come across certain documentation to the contrary which I will provide links to below) .  It was actually one of two guns that were hand-crafted especially for use in the film.  Only one of the two actually fired, and was used for all of the shooting scenes.

THE ORIGIN OF HARRY'S AUTOMAG
In the novel, the film's screenwriter reveals Harry's introduction to the Automag: 
Harry had received it as a gift.  The grateful husband of a hostage and potential murder victim was a master gunsmith.  A few months after Harry had rescued his wife from the mess of a botched bank robbery, he had sent him the boxed gun and a card that read, "You saved my wife's life.  Maybe this will help to save yours.".
In his time as a cop, Harry had never accepted a thing, not even a free cup of coffee.  But he accepted this gift.

AMMUNITION
The .44 Auto Mag cartridge was introduced in the ill-fated Auto Mag pistol in 1971.  Its rimless, straight wall case was formed by reducing the length of the .308 Winchester case (or any other member of the .30-06 family) to 1.30 inches.   The .44 Auto Mag was designed to shoot .429 inch bullets at about the same velocity as the .44 Magnum.  No U.S. manufacturer has offered a factory loading for this cartridge, but cases were once available from a Mexican firm of Cartuchos Deportivos Mexico.

The gas operated Auto Mag featured a rotary bolt with locking lugs located at the front , much the same design as the later Wildey and Desert Eagle autoloader.  Like those two, it was an extremely massive and heavy firearm designed to give handgun hunters .44 Magnum power from an autoloader.  The cartridge was an excellent move in the right direction in the 70's, but the gun was short lived due to a variety of reasons.

Like its ballistic twin the .44 Magnum, the .44 Auto Mag is powerful enough to be used on game such as deer and black bear at woods ranges.  Whether or not one should go to the trouble of doing so today is questionable.  Forming the case requires a set of custom dies from RCBS, an inside neck reamer, and plenty of spare time.  If not for the availability of dependable autoloaders in .44 Magnum and .45 Winchester Magnum, the .44 Auto Mag concept would probably still be a good idea.

Taken from Jake’s Dirty Harry Site  the-dirtiest.



In researching information on the AutoMag I would like to provide a few links which I find particularly interesting in regards to the “Clint Special”…



Arcadia Machine and Tool Letter

Arcadia Machine and Tool Order

Malpaso Productions

All of the above documents from http://www.automagparts.com/

So assuming that the documents above are legitimate I think that AMT did indeed provided fabrication of the AutoMag for Warner Brothers.

[KC]

Thanks for returning to this thread, D'Amb! 

[Lilly]

Cool stuff. Thanks D'Amb, I've wondered about that automag.  Nice to see the documents.

[Alcatraz]

I like this thread. Lots of reading though.

[Americanbeauty]

I found this a few days ago, thought you guys might like to know -I've been through the whole thread, and didn't see anything about the gun used in Blood Work -less cooler than the .44 Magnum, but still, nice little gun

This is the Smith &Wesson Performance Center 627, an eight-shot .357 magnum best known as the gun from Clint Eastwood's Blood Work. S&W still offers the gun, but only with a five inch barrel rather than the 2.65 inch barrel. Both models have ".357 Mag 8 x" stamped on the barrel.

LINK

[Tehama Tony]

Thanks for sharing that Beauty,   
I didn't realize S&W could put 8 rounds of .357 in to one cylinder.     Wow!  Seems the pressure would be too high for it.  For example, some of the larger S&W magnums were cut down to 5 shots instead of 6, I believe because of the pressure those rounds create would possibly crack the cylinder.
Anyway, cool to see what McCaleb was carrying, besides the shotgun in that one scene of Bloodwork where he starts walking toward that suspect car just blasting away.   

[D'Ambrosia]

Thanks for posting that Beauty...  At one time we had discussed this a few years back but for some reason I can't seem to find the old thread.  Lost in Cyber Space...

Looks like I'm going to have to finally break down and purchase City Heat for my next installment...

[Mingo]

Gentlemen, a follow up to John Omohundro's posting on  Sept. 17, 2003 and D'Ambrosia's posting regarding the rifles used in Joe Kidd. After researching  Nick Stroebel's book, Old Rifle Scopes and a Rifle Magazine article on Ross rifles by Ross Seyfreid (Jan.2000), I've come to the following conclusions.

Joe's mystery rifle used in the sniper duel sequence with Mingo, is a Ross rifle sporter/special take-down model M-10 (1910) in .280 Ross caliber with 26" barrel. That Ross cartridge was essentially a 7mm Rem. mag 60 years earlier. The rifle features a straight pull bolt action and is fitted with what appears to be a Winchester A-5 or B-5 scope (C:1909) of 5x power with micrometer mounts.

Olin Mingo's rifle is a Remington-Keene bolt action sporter in either .40-60 Marlin & Ballard Cal. or .45-70 Govt. Cal. with a shortened under barrel tube magazine & barrel band sling swivel. One key is when Mingo shoots Chama's right hand man Manolo from his horse. When Harlan tells Mingo, "I want him alive", Mingo dismounts, slings up and then cocks an external hammer at the end of the bolt, a Rem.-Keene feature not found on the Winchester Hotchkiss. The scope appears to be a  Wm. Malcolm or J.W. Sidle scope from the early 20th century. The scope mount I can't identify.

I am really intrigued by this web site, keep up the good work.

[KC]

Thanks for the input, Mingo ... and welcome to the Board!

[JKOmohundro]

Mingo:

I second KC's remarks--both of them. 

I was pretty sure that Olin Mingo's rifle was a Remington-Keene--I saw information on another site that identified it as such. (However, I wasn't *absolutely* certain, because the barrel on Mingo's rifle extended well beyond the end of the magazine tube, and all of the Remington-Keenes that I've seen photographs of have a magazine tube that extends all the way to the muzzle, as in a Winchester lever-action rifle or carbine.)

I was also at a loss as to what the cased rifle was that Kidd "appropriated" from the bad guys' "home" at the mission. Someone else on this forum--in this section, IIRC--suggested that it was a Ross, but the only photo they showed was of a military version. Frankly, I was unaware that there even *was* a sporter model. 

My biggest complaint about this film is that the scriptwriters expected us (the viewers) to suspend our disbelief--not just
*once*, but *twice*. On both occasions Kidd uses, to deadly effect,  a weapon that he has never handled before, much less fired--first Lamarr's Mauser automatic pistol, and then the high-powered rifle in question. Although Kidd had seen the Mauser pistol several times before, he had never handled or fired it!

(This ignores the fact that, during the escape sequence, he fires, by my count (according to the soundtrack) at least fifty shots from a ten-shot semiautomatic pistol--without reloading. (If you watch the film closely--or if you slo-mo it on VHS or DVD--you'll notice that the pistol's action cycles once for every second or third shot on the soundtrack. And even if he had reloaded, Lamarr had already fired at least ten shots during the confrontation with Manolo and his friends. As far as I know, Lamarr only had two clips for the weapon--the one that he stripped into the gun during his abortive attempt to show off for Kidd in Harlan's hotel room (Lamarr: "Let me show you somethin' here, buddy!" Harlan: "Shut the window, Lamarr."), and the one that was shown in the band of his hat while he was standing watch in the mission's bell tower.

Besides, unless it wasn't shown on-camera, Kidd left the second clip behind when he took off Lamarr's hat and replaced it with his own, just prior to climbing down the rope to escape the bell tower.

(Although I suppose that Lamarr *could* have had extra ammunition on him somewhere--either in boxes in his pockets, or in extra clips--but Kidd didn't have time to search the body.)

As for the Ross rifle,  he'd never even *seen* it before--and how did he know what was in the case? 


Still, Joe Kidd remains one of my favorite Eastwood Westerns, although perhaps not up to the standards of such blockbusters as The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly or Unforgiven.

(BTW: "John Omohundro" and "JKOmohundro" are the same person, back after a protracted absence. I had some trouble reactivating my old membership, and had to start over from scratch.)

--John Omohundro

[KC]

And welcome back!

Pondering some more on your question re suspension of disbelief: Isn't it possible that Kidd was familiar with these guns from somewhere in his shady past before the action of the film begins? We're led to believe that he had been a bounty hunter by trade.