Clint's Guns

[D'Ambrosia]

The sound produced by a firearm is principally comprised of three components. They are: (1) the muzzle blast created by shock waves generated from the sudden expansion of hot propellant gases as they encounter the atmosphere at the muzzle end of the gun barrel; (2) the miniature sonic boom, or crack, produces by a bullet traveling downrange at a velocity above the speed of sound (1,087.5 fps at 32 degrees Fahrenheit at sea level (3) in the case of a semiautomatic or full-auto weapon, there is the mechanical noise produced by the action. If the projectile travels downrange at subsonic velocity, it will not produce a sonic boom as it passes stationary objects.

A Blue Print of Maxims  "first" silencer  for the German Military dated July 20, 1911:


A couple of cool "history of supperssor" sites for you dame:

http://www.hirammaxim.com/HM_silencers.html

History of the silencer in the OSS:  (Where Eagles Dare)
http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/OSSPistol.PDF

On a side note I may have been incorrect with the gun Scorpio uses dannyman...  My Diry Harry DVD is out on loan right now but I'm thinking back to the scenes and I know it's a German gun of some sort but know that I've slept on it It might not be a Luger.  It could very well be a Walther...  

Maybe KC can post me up with one of her famous "screen captures" of Scorpio with the gun?

[KC]

How are these, D'Amb?

 




Sorry the first one is a little blurry.  

[D'Ambrosia]

Perfect as always KC!  Thanks...



Just as I suspected…  It’s a Walther P-38 which fires the same 9mm Parabellum cartridge that the Luger fires.  Basicly a step up from the Luger and was given to to all high ranking German officers, or as I call them, Nazis, in 1938 (hence the name P-38)  

As Germany was heading into World War II, they realized that the Luger was difficult to manufacture. It required close tolerances and hand fitting. In 1935, Germany began a serious search for a replacement. Walther's P.38 was adopted by the Army in 1938.

A Brief history can be found here thanks to the history channel:
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg68-e.htm

[dane with no name]

Thanks DAmbrosia
once again you excell in the knowledge of firearms, i´ll keep you in mind  when i have another firearmquestion
(incl. the eastwood-unrelated ones)

[The Man With No Name]

Oh yeah! The guns... The magnum stands out of course... But why does great big bad Callahan need that cannon? Well of course at the time criminals starting carrying heavier firepower of course!
My dad's a New York City police officer... That's NEW YORK CITY... Not London where they don't have guns...
And he gets a standard issue Gloch! I mean come on now... I definitely relate to the vigilante point of view here... Dirty Harry needed to get the job done when other people just complained about it and didn't want to do anything themselves.
I believe for the model 29, Smith and Wesson produced a 4in., 6in. and 8 in. models. All available in the blue steel that we recognize with Harry's gun. Unfortunately they're not made anymore in that color.
If you watch carefully you can tell that the barrel size does change like in the stadium when Harry yells: "Stop!" And you get that long side view, it's most likely an 8in. and then for other scenes it may revert back to the 6.

 "Well... We're not just gonna let you walk outta here."
 "Who's we sucka?"
 "Smith... Wesson... and me."

[John Omohundro]

Couple of small corrections, guys:

First of all, although Alistair MacLean *DID* specify that Major Smith and Lieutenant Schaffer used silenced Lugers in the novel "WHERE EAGLES DARE", the German military had, according to J. David Truby's "SILENCERS, SNIPERS, AND ASSASSINS", given up on attempting to silence the Luger automatic during World War ONE. Seems the temperamental pistol's action didn't take to having the extra weight of a silencer attached to its barrel. Coupled with the low-velocity ammunition usually used with silenced weapons, the experimental Lugers were too prone to jamming to be reliable as combat weapons.
The automatics used in the film by Richard Burton, Clint Eastwood, and Mary Ure were WALTHER PPKs.

Secondly, the rifle used by Scorpio in "DIRTY HARRY" was NOT an M-1 Garand. The Garand is a SEMI-AUTOMATIC rifle, and Scorpio's weapon was a BOLT-ACTION--specifically, a Japanese Type 99 Type 2 Paratrooper's Rifle, which was one of two takedown variations of the basic Type 99 Arisaka battle rifle, intended for use by airborne paratroopers. The rifle used in "DIRTY HARRY" had been further modified by (1) the addition of a sporter (hunting rifle)-type stock; (2) conversion to .30-'06 from the standard Japanese 7.7 X 58MM Arisaka (essentially a rimless counterpart to the .303 British); (3) the addition of a telescopic sight in quick-detachable mount; and (4) the addition of a Maxim-type silencer.

Thirdly (and with all due respect to the gentleman who posted the original), the rifle shown under the "Coogan's Bluff" entry could just as easily be a MARLIN MODEL 336. It's SIMILAR in appearance, but NOT IDENTICAL, to the MOSSBERG Model 472 Brush Gun identified in the other gentleman's post. No criticism is intended here--I'm just pointing out that there is ANOTHER rifle that could have been used in the film.

And lastly, the Thompson-pattern SMG used by Eastwood  in "Kelly's Heroes" was NOT a Model 1928. Although MANY of them were procured for military use early in the war, that model of Thompson was superseded by the simplified Thompson M-1 and M-1A1 Military models, which are easily distinguished from the earlier models by the presence of the cocking knob on the RIGHT-HAND SIDE of the receiver, instead of on the TOP, as was the case in the earlier Models 1921, 1928 and the rare Model 1923. Also, the M-1 and M-1A1 Thompsons could only accept 20- and 30-round box magazines--the M-1921 and M-1928 could accept these too, as well as the 50- and 100-round drum magazines frequently shown in the gangster films of the 1930s and 1940s. If you look closely at "KELLY'S HEROES", you'll notice that (a) most, if not all, of the Thompson SMGs shown are of the M-1/M-1A1 pattern, and that (b) they ALL use box magazines (check out the scene after the first firefight when the Company Quartermaster (I *THINK* that's what he was supposed to be) is walking from man to man doling out Thompson SMG magazines from a duffel bag).

  --John

[John Omohundro]

Incidentally, gentlemen and/or ladies, the Automag used in "SUDDEN IMPACT" was custom-built for the film by Arcadia Machine & Tool (AMT), a company which built the ORIGINAL Automags back in the 1970s.

According to GUNS & AMMO magazine, which did a cover article on the pistol in, I believe, June 1984, there were actually TWO such guns built for the film, serial numbered "Clint 1" and "Clint 2". The former was set up for LIVE ammunition (presumably for the impromptu range session between Eastwood (as "Harry Callahan") and Detective Horace King (played by Albert Popwell, who also had roles in "COOGAN'S BLUFF" ("Wonderful Digby"),  "DIRTY HARRY" (the "I gots to know!" bank robber), "MAGNUM FORCE" (a pimp), and "THE ENFORCER" (as "'Big Ed' Mustapha")). The second gun was set up to use blanks, and was featured in the shoot-out between Harry Callahan and Mick (Paul Drake) and his cronies at the end of the film.

Once again, no criticism intended of anyone else posting here. I'm just doing my part to help set the record straight.

-- John

[KC]

Thanks, John!

[John Omohundro]

My pleasure, KC!

--John

[John Omohundro]

KC:

I'm not quite certain, but I believe that Eastwood used the SAME holster and gunbelt set for "JOE KIDD" that he did for the earlier "Spaghetti Westerns".  However, he did NOT use the same gun--the pistol he used in "A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS" and "FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE" had a 4.75" barrel, while the one he used in "JOE KIDD" had a 7.5" barrel--something the holster easily accommodated, because it was open at the end. (This was a feature common in the 1950s "Fast Draw" craze; it allowed a hardened steel plate to be affixed to the end of the holster, parallel to the shooter's leg, but angled slightly away from his body. The idea was that, in the event of an accidental discharge while drawing the gun in a competition using live ammunition, the plate would safely deflect the bullet  away from the shooter's body.)

It was originally made for him by the late Andy Anderson, the same man who designed and made the silver-inlaid rattlesnake grip panels showcased in those films. Until shortly before his death about 20 years ago, Anderson made virtually ALL of the leatherware that Eastwood used in his Western films--from his days as "Rowdy Yates" on "RAWHIDE" until he played the lead in "THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES".

--John

[D'Ambrosia]

You seem to be well informed John!!!  Thanks for all of your helpful insight.  This thread is stricly Clints Guns so of course all of you knowledge is greatly appericated.  Feel free to sum up Joe Kidd if you would like.  I haven't had a chance to view it in quite some time and that one is next on the list, although you did hit upon the '96 Mauser.  Thanks for setting the record straight on the Coogans rifle.  I looked at all the Marlins and they just didn't seem to have the same looking stock as the Mossburg but I'll take your word for it.  As I stated in the post "I'm not positive"  and I usually do that when I'm not certain just hopeing someone like you will jump in and help out...

Oh yeah, and welcome to the best damb board around John...

PS, Thanks for the correction on the M-1Grand in Dirty Harry...  My oversight...

[John Omohundro]

Just asking:

Does anybody have an idea what the brass machine gun was which Ramon Rojo used to ambush the American soldiers in "A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS" ?

I think an 1886 Maxim, which was the first true machine gun (i.e., mechanically operated by the ammunition, rather than a manually-operated weapon, such as the Gatling gun) would fit the time period.

However, the only sources that I have say that the Maxim gun, while first purchased by the British government in 1885, were not used in combat until the Matabele wars in Africa in 1891.

If the weapon WAS a Maxim, I suppose that Ramon Rojo could've somehow gotten hold of one--after all, he and his family were, essentially, arms dealers.

Unfortunately, that's a hobby of mine--finding flaws in films, such as weapons that were produced later than the era in which the film takes place (1873 Colt Peacemakers and Winchesters in a film set during the Civil War, for example--a few of John Wayne's early films were like that ).

Anyway--is there anyone here who might be able to shed a little light on this particular subject, and possibly identify the machine gun in question?

Thanks in advance.

--John

[John Omohundro]

The Man With No Name:

You're correct.

Or as Don Rickles said in KELLY'S HEROES, "You win a cookie."  

I read several years ago that  there were several substitutions for the .44 Magnum co-star made during the filming of DIRTY HARRY.

The standard gun was a Smith & Wesson Model 29 .44 Magnum, with blued finish,  checkered Goncalo Alves ( a tropical American hardwood known also as "Kingwood" or "Zebrawood") hardwood grips, a rear sight that was adjustable for windage (side-to-side movement) and elevation (up-and-down movement), and a 6.5" barrel.

However, because there was a shortage of that model at the time (possibly in CA state gun shops, and not a production shortage at Smith & Wesson, as some have hinted here, although I am not certain), some Smith & Wesson Model 57s were used--this pistol is virtually IDENTICAL to the Model 29 except for caliber (the Model 57 is a .41 Magnum rather than a .44).

Also, possibly to make the weapon look more intimidating physically from some camera angles, several revolvers of both models with 8.375" (8 and 3/8ths-inch) barrels were used, most notably in the scene at the football stadium where Harry shouts "STOP!", and we (the viewers) are treated to a three-quarter view of the .44's right side (all the way to the muzzle--SHUDDER!),   just before Harry blows Scorpio's leg out from under him.

--John

[woodenhead]

Mr. DAmbrosia:
In post #4 shows a colt #73 with a 71/2" barrel.
I have always been intrigued with Blondie's gun in GBU.
In the hotel room before Tuco comes in through the window (there are two kinds of spurs my friend, those that come in through the door and those that come in through the window) Blondie had taken his gun apart and was cleaning it. Like tuco after coming out of the dessert and took those guns apart and put one together out of the best components.
These guns had a lock or lever on the side of the barrel enabling the barrel to be removed along with the cylinder.  Was this an actual gun or something special for the movie. Was there such a gun. None of the above models show this feature.
I never could find a gun like that in catalogues.
Thanks for any consideration on this request.
Best Regards.

[D'Ambrosia]

The pistol that Blondie uses in the Good the Bad and the Ugly is a modified 1851 Navy Colt (modified, no doubt, by a dubious gunsmith).  It has been converted to fire metallic cartridges which was extremly rare in the day but a few guns around then could fire these bullets (Smith and Wesson).  The technology was there but the mass production was not.  Both the Union and Confederate States stalled and delayed the new metallic cartridges in fear of their armies wasting ammunition and costing too much to manufacter.  

One of the most popular of Civil War revolvers was the Colt Model 1851 in 36 caliber. Around 250,000 were made by Colt between 1850 and 1873. It had a six shot cylinder and a 7-1/2" octagonal barrel. The standard cylinder featured an engraved scene of a naval battle. The Navy designation meant it was 36 caliber. 44 Caliber were known as Army, but both terms are merely convenient marketing designations.  This model was carried by such different men as Robert E. Lee as the Confederate Commanding General and by Wild Bill Hickock as the Sheriff of Abilene.  It was loaded with loose blackpowder and a bare bullet, referred to as "cap and ball," or with paper cartridges. Loading a cap and ball revolver is from the front of the cylinder. Misfires in cap and ball revolvers were more common than in the subsequent metallic cartridge guns. The misfire problem was well enough known to be commented on when it didn't happen after unusual circumstances. The '51 Colt carried by Robert E. Lee made the commentaries. When it was shot after his death in 1870, every chamber fired when it had last been loaded during the middle of the War about seven years earlier.
The '51 Colt Navy was the first gun to be made as a replica in the 1950s. The markup prototype was assembled in 1949 for Italian production

[Blu]

....I don't know a whole lot about guns, and this post is a bit late in the chronological sequence, but as I stated once before, two of the guns Clint used in the spaghetti western trilogy are (or were, last time I was there) on display in the Planet Hollywood in Las Vegas.  I'm not sure if the post is still around, but I believe one was a Springfield rifle (probably used in the GB&U), and the other a Colt revolver.  
      ....Just thought I would throw that in.

-Blu  

[D'Ambrosia]

That's cool Blu.  The Colt fits but I'm not sure if the Sprinfield does...  Blondie used a Henry "Golden Boy" in GBU.

[Blu]

.....I did notice that the rifle didn't quite look like the one at the end of GB&U.  The barrel shape of the one on display was round instead of octagonal.  Then again, I believe Planet Hollywood has been known to display bogus Hollywood props from time to time.

-Blu

[D'Ambrosia]

Yeah, the one here in Columbus, or lack of one now, use to have on display the Aussie '73 Ford Falcon  from the The Road Warrior and just by one look you could tell it to be bogus.  The real one sat in a junk pile for years and someone wised up and fished it out of there and restored it.   On the other hand they did have some wardrobe from Gone with the Wind that look as if it could have been the real deal...

[vik]

what about the outlaw josey wales?