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Author Topic: Steve's "The GOOD the BAD and the UGLY" or "UNFORGIVEN" thread  (Read 17652 times)
Philo Beddoe Jr
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« Reply #80 on: December 30, 2005, 02:45:16 AM »

For the sake of blessed simplicity....

GBU.

Now I guess I will have to read this entire thread sometime soon, and add some more analytical observations.

WKC.
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robluvsnic
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« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2006, 08:24:07 PM »

Oh, man!

There's just too much there to take in in one sitting.

Expect my comments in a week or two....
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KC
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« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2006, 09:05:29 PM »

A robluvsnic sighting!  8)
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The Schofield Kid
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« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2006, 06:41:05 AM »

I love these threads because there is no right or wrong answers but it always whips up some great discussions.

I watched GBU again today and it's a fun film,but Unforgiven leaves it in it's wake in terms of which is a better film.
Unforgiven has me absorbed from start to finish,that no other film has ever done.
Action,humor,tragedy all the emotions for two hours.I mentioned in the Josey Wales VS Unforgiven thread that scenes from Unforgiven stay with me long after the film is over,no other film has had that effect on me.To me it's the perfect film and shows a more realistic view of the west.No quickdraw shoot outs in the main street,no heroes that ride off in the sunset with the girl.A stripped back view of how it really was.
GBU is a fun ride but now days I look for more in films and this is why Unforgiven stands above all else.
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palooka
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« Reply #84 on: June 27, 2006, 06:47:40 AM »

Unforgiven is Clint's masterpiece. Its the greatest western ever made. Its perfect.

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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Matt
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« Reply #85 on: December 20, 2015, 11:55:22 AM »

Originally posted by Conan, 03-11-99 12:36 PM


As most people have agreed, "Unforgiven" was deeper and was more than just a hollywood shoot-em-up. That's not to say that "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" was nothing more than a shoot-em-up. It's very close for me, I am a Josey Wales man myself, but after that "Unforgiven" only beats TGTBTU by a hair. I will break it down(Note: these numbers don't represent the score in relation to one another, but movies in general; give me any other movie picked at random and chances are the numbers would be low, these 2 movies are nearly perfect so the numbers are going to be high):

Unforgiven:
Acting - 10
Cinematography - 8
Plot - 10
Action - 9
Dialogue - 10
Music/Sound - 9

TGTBTU:
Acting - 9
Cinematography - 10
Plot - 8
Action - 10
Dialogue - 8
Music/Sound - 10

Action is not really the amount of action, but the quality of it. And of course, there are many things that this list doesn't include that make TGTBTU and "Unforgiven" great movies. But this is one way that I analyze a movie. I tends to work better with Non-Eastwood flicks because the numbers are more varied, like "Titanic", which would get a 10 for cinematography, but a 4 for plot. It is a tough one for me Steve. "Unforgiven" by a hair.

ALMOST 17 YEARS LATER I REPLY TO THIS POST

Conan, do you still agree with your scores here? Because, I think you nailed them all except the acting in GBU, which needs to be a 10 (in my opinion). And that would make this competition a draw.

Although, now that I think about it, the GBU score is more than one notch above Unforgiven's score, so I guess I'd have to give Unforgiven an 8 and GBU a 10, which would make GBU the winner.  8)
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Conan
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« Reply #86 on: December 20, 2015, 12:32:43 PM »

Conan, do you still agree with your scores here? Because, I think you nailed them all except the acting in GBU, which needs to be a 10 (in my opinion). And that would make this competition a draw.

Acting counting just the big roles is a 10 in TGTBTU...At the time maybe I was thinking of some of the bit role actors when I scored it a "9".

Wow, an old school post from Steve!  He goes by Sad Hill on here now I think.
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Matt
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« Reply #87 on: December 20, 2015, 12:34:48 PM »

Yeah, this is a great thread to read. I had forgotten that GMAT rated GBU at spot #6 out of the 10 Clint westerns.  ??? 

Steve's posts are fun to read, and of course I agree with them all.
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Christopher
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« Reply #88 on: December 21, 2015, 11:47:29 AM »

I think I found this thread on the old board a while before I actually registered (I registered February 2002). Well, old board to me... I see Holden referenced the board as being new in his post from '99.
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bdc28
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« Reply #89 on: February 08, 2016, 06:03:01 AM »

HOLY GOD how did I not weigh on in this one???? Seriously this has been around since 99 and I didnt post once??? For shame ....self wrist smack.

Sigh, this is a huge one......gonna take a bit for me to go through all this.

For one, both of these movies are epic and are indicative of greatness....FOR THEIR ERAS. GBU wouldnt have been able to have been made during the time UNFORGIVEN WAS, or vice versa. You cant just stand them up cinematically shoulder to shoulder and compare them, you also have to take in the account of when they were made and what they could get away with.

As far as great stories go, they both stand up nose to nose even as far as I am concerned. Cinematography, again for their times they are nose to nose. Keep in mind that the GBU didnt have the benefits of technological advances that UNFORGIVEN did. So clarity and lighting, both in visual AND in score have to be considered relative.

So, then what do we actually grade these movies on?

Originality.

UNFORIGVEN, for its excellent writing and its composition, for its depth of characters, story line and its take on the American west...I have to honestly say is a subject that was done to death. The story of the "Cowboy that was a drunk maniac and regretful when sober"  had not only been done to death but in a few movies had become comedic. In that area Eastwood didnt really break any ground. I would also have to say that Eastwood, in some degree...cowarded away from certain parts of the story that were blatantly obvious. Easiest one to pick would be Ned....how he was almost TOO equal to everyone that was his white counterpart. Hell, you didnt even know that Ned was black in the story until Lil Bill used whipping him as a method to make him talk..an obvious excrutiating thing for Ned to go thru both physically AND emotionally...but the emotional part is left to be interpreted by the viewer.

I have to admit I was a little shocked by this. Although I know Eastwood to be a progressive in his movies, especially regarding race, I expected in this tale of truth telling that he would be a little more honest, perhaps even shocking. It was an opportunity to do more than just have a black sidekick, but to define how blacks were treated in the old west.....granted it wasnt really part of the storyline, but it really should  have been. You cant have a black side kick in a racial madhouse and pretend nothing happens to him on a day to day basis, especially keeping Eastwoods company.

Also, and this is just a pet peeve for me, in my opinion if you are going to have a morally questionable character like Lil Bill, and you have an actor with the chops of Gene Hackman to play him.....I think you should really stretch his range and put him in situations where you dont know if he is being good or bad. Similar to TRAINING DAY, where its unclear until close to the end of the movie where Denzel Washington's character stands. Is he inherently evil and using his badge as a semblance of good?  Or is he doing good having to use a whole lot of evil.

Basically, that is where I felt that UNFORGIVEN fell a little short. Other than that it was an epic story.

But because of that, I would give GBU the nod if for one reason and one reason only.....the note of crossing the bridge.

Had the story of them having to cross the bridge and throwing into the story the face of the civil war, HONESTLY GBU would have been an interchangable part of the "Manco trilogy". No one would have cared.

But they masterfully illustrated the waste and wanton of war, any war, no matter how beautifully history tells its story. The thousands killed on a bridge for no apparent reason other than a government that could care less about any name fell on that bridge telling them to. The captain that has to be too drunk just to be able to function in this regimented madness. Blondie and Tuco bearing witness to the carnage and even by THEIR standard of cruelty this was too far. The sympathy shown to the boy....BOY....dying and attempting to be brave by Blondie.

This was a direction the movie did not need to go in to keep the story going.

Now this is an arguable point, as many could argue the beating in the prison camp to the sad song as putting the war center stage. I could agree, but the war was the backdrop of the story. GBU made the war a fourth character in the story to be contended with...wrestled with. There was no one that didnt shed a tear for Tuco when he took that beating, no matter what you felt for his character at this point. It was mans inhumantiy against man at best, and the sickening scene of a band having to play music to mask it.....aware of what they were doing and fighting back the tears.

To say that these movies arent parallel in originality is only giving nod to the later times....GBU took the movie watcher by the throat, and the heart and didnt let him go.

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Matt
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« Reply #90 on: February 08, 2016, 02:22:43 PM »

Steve would be very happy with that post, BDC.  And so am I.  :)


For one, both of these movies are epic and are indicative of greatness....FOR THEIR ERAS. GBU wouldnt have been able to have been made during the time UNFORGIVEN WAS, or vice versa. You cant just stand them up cinematically shoulder to shoulder and compare them, you also have to take in the account of when they were made and what they could get away with.

This is a great point. There's 25 years between the films, and in that 25 years, filming techniques and equipment did come a long way, and that's something that really wasn't brought up before. Leave it to you to uncover something new on an almost 20 year debate.  O0
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