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Author Topic: Clint Eastwood autographs: authentic?  (Read 46084 times)
deputypowell
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« on: February 15, 2006, 06:45:13 AM »

I was wondering if somone out there with some autograph knowledge knows if these autographs look authentic?  There are from two different autograph dealers. One is selling for $500.00.  Real?

http://www.rubylane.com/ni/shops/jwautographs/iteml/2005-265#pic1

http://www.historyforsale.com/html/prodetails.asp?documentid=270676&start=1
« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 08:34:58 PM by KC » Logged
KC
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2006, 08:05:28 AM »

Hi, deputypowell, and welcome to the Board. I fixed your links for you ... unless it's very long, it's OK to post just a URL here; it will turn into a link automatically.

We have a couple of experts who post here regularly, so I'm sure one or both will check in on this before long.
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palooka
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2006, 10:59:28 AM »

Both look like forgeries to me.  :(

El bueno is our resident expert here on the forum and I'm sure he'll cast an all knowing eye over these for you too.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
deputypowell
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2006, 08:07:27 AM »

Thanks for fixing my link! 
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deputypowell
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2006, 08:13:50 AM »

I am very good with autographs as I have been collecting for years but Clint Eastwood is someone I never took a chance on purchasing because of all the forgeries and secretarial.  If the one for $500.00 is given a possible green light I plan on adding it to my collection. 
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palooka
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2006, 01:49:49 PM »

I'd be happy to post some links to some authentic examples as and when I see them. Don't see them on ebay too often though  :(

I also have some in my collection that I could sell and it would be an awful lot less than $500. Drop me a PM if you want to see some scans.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
deputypowell
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2006, 10:40:29 AM »

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palooka
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2006, 02:57:14 PM »

Will do.

As stated above I think its a forgery. Just my opinion.



El Bueno will come.

El Bueno?

EL BUENO!!

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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
KC
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2006, 08:30:12 PM »

He comes to all who need him!  :D
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deputypowell
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2006, 10:53:32 AM »

I could not wait. 

I purchased the www.historyforsale.com signed photo and believe it is one of the finest vintage Eastwood items you will find.  I will show posts later explaining why I think it is 100% authentic.  (Do not compair it to Clint autographs you see today as this is a vintage signature.)   

After I purchased it they put another one up right after that selling now for $599.00!  Look closley as the signature is almost (it is different) the same but moved slightly.  These were obviously signed at the same time from a seated position.  Clint used to sign a stack of photos and if an inscription needed to be applied he would let a secretary do it.

For a while I thought maybe the www.historyforsale.com Clint Eastwood signed photo might me a secretarial but I found an article on vintage Eastwood signed items and I believe it was from the late 70's/early 80's when he was still signing authentically in the mail and his signature was a bit finer.  I plan on having it authenticated through PSA/DNA autographs.  Check out my other non-Eastwood items at www.sci-fi-autographs.com

Later, (PS- what happened to El Bueno?)

James
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palooka
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2006, 01:46:04 AM »


Glad you got what you wanted. There's nothing quite like buying Eastwood memorabilia.



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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
deputypowell
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2006, 08:04:34 AM »

I submitted my Clint Eastwood signed photo (Yeah, the $500.00 dollar one.) today to PSA/DNA for authentication.  Lets see what they think.
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Richard Earl
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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2006, 08:45:40 AM »

I submitted my Clint Eastwood signed photo (Yeah, the $500.00 dollar one.) today to PSA/DNA for authentication.† Lets see what they think.

Do you know what the process is for this?
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palooka
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2006, 11:07:25 AM »

Here is their website

http://www.psadna.com/

However, I would recommend http://www.onlineauthentics.com/oa/

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deputypowell
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2006, 11:52:07 AM »

I sent the Clint Eastwood autographed photo out to PSA/DNA on 03/02/06.  I believe it takes awhile for authentication.  I have never sent an item out to be authenticated but with Eastwood I feel it is a must.  It cost $50.00 plus $14.50 in return shipping.  ($14.50 because I declared it worth $400.00)  Letís see how it turns out.  I will let everyone know.  If it is determined to be authentic, there is another one just like it at www.historyforsale.com
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deputypowell
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2006, 11:55:21 AM »

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El bueno
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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2006, 07:13:32 AM »

I submitted my Clint Eastwood signed photo (Yeah, the $500.00 dollar one.) today to PSA/DNA for authentication.† Lets see what they think.

In my view as well as many others PSADNA are not dependable with their autograph opinions!
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palooka
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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2006, 07:22:14 AM »

 :) Welcome back El Bueno!

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Lin Sunderland
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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2006, 10:35:42 AM »

:) Welcome back El Bueno!


Yeah!  We have missed you.
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El bueno
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2006, 07:14:06 AM »

In my view as well as many others PSADNA are not dependable with their autograph opinions!


Quote
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 2006

      
Kinda Sorta Genuine

By NEIL A. MARTIN

SOMETIMES, EVEN THE EXPERTS CAN BE FOOLED.

Take James Spence, one of the country's foremost sports-autograph experts. When a Fox-television news affiliate in Philadelphia asked him to verify the signatures on six baseballs signed by sports greats, he gave a firm thumbs-up to one apparently signed by former Phillies third-baseman Mike Schmidt. "Very, very typical of the way he would sign," he told the station's reporter. "Good speed, good letter formation, and reflects authority and spontaneity." Informed that the station's resident graphic artist had forged Schmidt's signature the day before, Spence could only reply: "He did a fine job."

That awkward episode unfolded a few years ago, when Spence headed up an autograph-authentication unit of Collectors Universe, a big player in collectibles whose stock is traded on Nasdaq (ticker: CLCT). Though Spence has since moved on, forming his own firm, the credibility of the unit, PSA/DNA, has increasingly drawn scrutiny. It is now battling two lawsuits challenging the integrity of certain authentications it made. And the company has taken an unusual flogging in the publications of two prestigious collectors' organizations.
"It's not uncommon to see a PSA/DNA [expert] 'authenticating' an autograph that is certainly not authentic," says a scathing article in the current issue of Pen and Quill, a magazine of the Universal Autograph Collectors' Club. It cited more than a dozen cases of what it called authentication foul-ups, including validation of a preprinted signature of Franklin D. Roosevelt, two Neil Armstrong forgeries and "autopen," or machine-signed, signatures of George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan and Bruce Springsteen.
Collectors Universe stands by its work and says the Pen and Quill article has many factual errors.
"Credibility is our biggest asset and our reputation is the core of our business," Michael Haynes, chief executive of Collectors Universe, told a group of institutional investors at a recent corporate seminar in New York.

The PSA/DNA autograph unit, which, as its name suggests, counts DNA analysis among its tools, contributes less than 5% of revenues. But its verification services have been a model for the rest of the company, so the controversies involving the unit could have broad implications for the company's image.
The sparring began last year when William Daniels, a long-time collector and dealer of sports memorabilia in Lebanon, Ind., filed a suit against PSA/DNA and online auctioneer MastroNet. The suit, now in the discovery phase in Boone County (Indiana) Superior Court, accuses PSA/DNA of fraud in connection with verifying the authenticity of some 2,000 autographed glossy color photographs of sports figures that Daniels purchased for nearly $20,000 in a catalog auction from MastroNet in December 2004.

Each photo came with a letter of authenticity from PSA/DNA. But, Daniels claims, some 65% of the photos turned out to be damaged, tattered, torn and creased, with signatures smeared or otherwise illegible. When he asked PSA/DNA about this, he claims, he was told by one of its authenticators that the firm had never actually reviewed the photos. Instead, according to Daniels, PSA/DNA had supplied MastroNet with blank letters of authenticity, leaving it to the auctioneers to fill in the details.

"This business is based on trust and faith and PSA/DNA is supposed to be a reliable third-party verifier," Daniels said in an interview. "But how can they verify something they don't look at? "

MastroNet president Doug Allen says the claim that PSA/DNA didn't review the items is "a total fabrication." He said MastroNet records show that PSA/DNA authenticators were on the premises. He added that his firm had offered early on to reimburse Daniels if he would identify and return damaged photos, but that Daniels refused. Haynes, the Collectors Universe CEO, says his firm has no control of "the care and handling of items by the auction house or by the common carrier that may have delivered the items."

Meanwhile, Collectors Universe was sued by a former employee, William Miller, for millions of dollars for issuing more than 14,000 certificates of authenticity bearing his name that were used without his permission to verify the legitimacy of various sports memorabilia. The company essentially blames an administrative glitch.
This past November, a jury in Superior Court of California found in Miller's favor on the unauthorized use of his name, but the judge refused to rule on a damages claim, leaving it up to appeals court to settle the matter. The judge did award Miller $14,060, $1 per signature, representing Collector's Universe's profits on the autographs. Miller is appealing and asking for $750 per signature, or more than $10 million.
Senior Vice President of Finance Mike Lewis says the company "failed to adequately stop the flow" of the certificates after Miller said he no longer wanted his names on them. However, the firm believes that Miller suffered no damages and therefore there is "nothing to rectify," Lewis says.

THE RECENT ARTICLES IN THE TWO collectors' magazines have only added to the questions about the company. The bi-monthly Pen and Quill, put out by the oldest autograph collectors' club in the world, has published what amounts to a five-page indictment of PSA/DNA's authentication process, entitled "Who's Watching the Watchmen."

"It has become apparent that PSA/DNA has some weakness in authenticating autographs outside the sports field -- as well as some glaring oversights from within the sports area," writes author Steve Zarelli, a member of the collectors club. "It's not uncommon to see a PSA/DNA [expert] 'authenticating' an autograph that is certainly not authentic."

Zarelli told of a collector who successfully bid for a game-used bat belonging to Ernie Banks, complete with a certificate of authentication from PSA/DNA. "What autograph?" Zarelli writes, "The bat isn't signed by anyone." Similarly, a "signed" Mark McGwire baseball card, authenticated and graded by PSA/DNA, turned out to be a rubber-stamped signature rather than hand-written, he writes.

In keeping with the club's policies, a draft of the article was sent to Joe Orlando, president of PSA/DNA, for review before publication. But according to club president Michael Hecht, a Pasadena, Calif.-based Smith Barney stock broker by trade and longtime autograph collector by avocation, Orlando provided only a general response. "He sent me an e-mail saying they didn't believe what we wrote was true but to go ahead and publish it and be damned," Hecht says.

"Some dealers said it was finally about time that someone said what we wrote," Hecht added.
Lewis of Collectors Universe said Orlando told the club the article was "filled with factual errors and opinions stated as fact." The company declined to discuss the supposed errors in detail, either for Penn and Quill or for Barron's.

Shortly after the Pen and Quill article came out, another collectors organization weighed in. The Manuscript Society, an elite New York-based organization of collectors of historical documents and manuscripts, reported on the Miller case in its Manuscript Society News, quoting Miller as saying Collectors Universe used him "as a pawn to deceive or even defraud the public. For the rest of my life, I will live with the uncomfortable feeling that at anytime I might be held responsible for someone who authenticated an autograph I never looked at."

The controversy surrounding Collectors Universe hasn't received much attention beyond the narrow audience for Pen and Quill and the Manuscript Society News. But that could change soon. Says Ken Lawrence, a stamp expert with the nonprofit American Philatelic Society's expertizing service and a member of the organizations that published both articles, "For both these groups to be warning their members about Collectors Universe at the same time is very unusual and very serious."

SOURCE : http://online.barrons.com/public/article/SB114083196865983227-4Y8aWjQYbxPeWxLOHY_bhy2J9V8_20060402.html?mod=9_0002_b_free_features
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