|
|
|
|
|
robluvsnic
Jr. Member
 
Offline
Posts: 75

I'm a llama! -- Huh? I didn't write that...
|
 |
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2003, 11:01:13 PM » |
|
Hi. I'm new (obviously), and it's been far too long since I've seen most of Clint's westerns to rank them all. But I thought I'd list the top three, and then comment on one of them in particular, purely because of the last few posts.
1. Unforgiven -- simply the best movie of all time 2. High Plains Drifter 3. GBU
What I wanted to say, though, concerns High Plains Drifter and especially what everyone has taken as the "inexplicable" rape scene.Without this scene, I don't know that I would have rated it above GBU, and I think the scene makes the most sense in the context of the Eastwood western tradition that precedes it. Take GBU: this is a film were "morality" is reduced to little more than a choice of style. What in the actions of the three main characters really justifies their respective depiction as "good", "bad" and "ugly"? In fact, the very inclusion of "ugly" here already points to the reduction of moral choice to stylistic choice.. In terms of conventional morality, especially as represented in "law and order", all three characters are "bad" in the moral sense. If anything, it is in fact the "ugly" who is the most "bad" in the moral sense of the term, at least in the sense that he appears little more than a common criminal. But that's exactly the point: if the "bad" earns that title, it's because he has a certain style about him, while the "ugly" earns our pity, since he could never hope to have that style. The"bad" is thus worse than the "ugly", since the "ugly", being devoid of style, couldn't ever hope to participate in a moral system that is so aligned with the aesthetic. (To appreciate the point, it helps to think about the way inwhich the terms "good" and "bad" are judgements both of moral actions and of aesthetic products.) If the ugly never stood a chance of being the good, then that leaves only the good and the bad as contrasting characters, and -- again -- what really separates these two? Not the morality of their actions, that's for sure. If we sympathise with one (the good) rather than the other (the bad), therefore, it's because we like Clint's _style_.
Put in the context of a questioning of morality, the rape scene is absolutely crucial to High Plains Drifter. The scene removes even the _aesthetic_ basis for judging the "hero's" actions.Unlike the "good", the high plains drifter can't even be called stylish, for who would see rape as an aesthetic ideal? He is who he is, and he does what he does, and their is neither a moral nor an aesthethic framework for explaining our sympathy towards him, assuming that he holds our sympathy. And if not, then how can we sympathise with the "good"? After all, the rape is the only thing that separates the two characters. In fact, the drifter has more "moral" justification for his actions than the "good", at least if we see his vengance as justified. So I think that the rape scene has to be in the film, and I see it as the first step in Clint's struggle with the Western tradition he helped create. And from High Plains Drifter, where do you go but to Unforgiven ("Deserve's got nothing to do with it")?
Sorry for the long rant. I just wanted to give myself and others something to think about.
|
|
« Last Edit: December 01, 2003, 11:40:19 PM by robluvsnic »
|
Logged |
|
|
|
|
masterchief
Sr. Member
   
Offline
Posts: 397

|
 |
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2003, 12:20:43 PM » |
|
Yes, Misty, you're not alone, and it's perfectly okay not to like some of Clint's films, even if the ones that you happen to not be too fond of are some of the ones that many consider his best. That's cool. Not everybody loves Unforgiven . I don't happen to be with you on this point, but that's okay. For me, Unforgiven isn't the most enjoyable of Clint's films, but artistically, it's one of his best, but that's just my opinion.[/quote
I agree, i didnt think that Unforgiven matched the dollars triligy, although havent seen all of the Eastwood films, but I'm getting Pale Rider and TOJW for christmas, but Unforgiven is not the best
|
|
|
Logged |
|
|
|
|
grandpa_chum
Jr. Member
 
Offline
Posts: 61

If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster
|
 |
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2003, 12:29:33 PM » |
|
Only seen 5, so i'll just rank my top 5...
1. The good, the bad, and the ugly... best movie i've ever seen, head and shoulders above the rest i've seen, its not even close to no.2. this may sound wierd, specially considering i'm on this forum, but i'm not even sure clint is my favorite actor in this movie... van cleef is amazing. He is the perfect villain IMO.
2. For a few dollars more... Loved it, but again not even close to the good the bad and the ugly
3. Hang 'em high... liked the plot more than anything else, but was still a great movie
4. Outlaw josey wales... was ok, my expectations were high after hearing such great things about it, i was slightly disapointed, but still a decent movie
5. A fistful of dollars... not a great movie, but still enjoyable, i liked the mule scene in the beginning and the showdown at the end, but everything in the middle wasnt anything special.
|
|
« Last Edit: December 02, 2003, 12:32:09 PM by grandpa_chum »
|
Logged |
|
|
|
|
|
thesongman
Newbie

Offline
Posts: 4

yeah, and that's not gonna break my heart!
|
 |
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2003, 10:48:03 PM » |
|
My favorite catagory!! without a doubt: 1. a fistful of dollars 2. for a few dollars more 3. GB&U 4. Unforgiven 5. joe kidd 6. outlaw josey wales 7. High plains drifter 8. hang em high There will never be another MWNN trilogy! You all know how I feel 
|
|
« Last Edit: December 06, 2003, 12:48:23 AM by thesongman »
|
Logged |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
grandpa_chum
Jr. Member
 
Offline
Posts: 61

If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster
|
 |
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2004, 01:36:41 AM » |
|
Only seen 5, so i'll just rank my top 5...
1. The good, the bad, and the ugly... best movie i've ever seen, head and shoulders above the rest i've seen, its not even close to no.2. this may sound wierd, specially considering i'm on this forum, but i'm not even sure clint is my favorite actor in this movie... van cleef is amazing. He is the perfect villain IMO.
2. For a few dollars more... Loved it, but again not even close to the good the bad and the ugly
3. Hang 'em high... liked the plot more than anything else, but was still a great movie
4. Outlaw josey wales... was ok, my expectations were high after hearing such great things about it, i was slightly disapointed, but still a decent movie
5. A fistful of dollars... not a great movie, but still enjoyable, i liked the mule scene in the beginning and the showdown at the end, but everything in the middle wasnt anything special.
Now that i've seen more of em and all of em more than once i can give a better and more updated list of how they rank in my book, and i gave em a quick rating out of 10 1. The Good The Bad And The Ugly... unratable 2. For A Few Dollars More... 10 3. Unforgiven...10 4. A Fistful of Dollars... 9.5 5. The Outlaw Josey Wales...9 6. High Planes Drifter...9 7. Two Mules For Sister Sarah...7.5 8. Hang 'Em High...6 9. Joe Kid...3 The top 7 were great... the rest weren't very good
|
|
« Last Edit: January 04, 2004, 01:43:15 AM by grandpa_chum »
|
Logged |
|
|
|
|
|