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Author Topic: The Celebrity Obituary Thread  (Read 204006 times)
Jed Cooper
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« Reply #1320 on: April 26, 2016, 06:43:16 AM »

Prince was obviously extremely talented.  Although not a "crossover" artist, he was a phenomenal musician.  I think the two greatest crossover artists are Elvis and Michael Jackson. I'm sure it wasn't intentional. It's a testament to both of those artists' genius that they were successful in more than just one genre. I don't see Prince as having done that and that's not meant as anything negative. I agree that Prince was a genius in his own right, too. Such a big loss in the music world. I was more of a Michael Jackson fan but appreciated Prince's talent. I did and still do enjoy a lot of what he did.
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« Reply #1321 on: April 26, 2016, 08:36:55 AM »

Prince was definitely a crossover artist!  His genres include Rock (both heavy metal and pop), Dance, Electronica, Funk, Psychedelia, and Soul.

But, since you wanted to compare Prince with Elvis and MJ (which honestly is a little $#!tty...when myself and the world is still mourning his death just a few days ago) let's start with their musicianship...  sure they could all sing, but only one was a highly accomplished musician. If we're going to compare Prince to Elvis, let's start with songwriting (and musicianship).  But I'd rather not compare any of them. The world is mourning the death of a great musician who stood for love and peace, and as good a singer/songer as MJ was, the rape allegations surrounding him ruined any respect I had for him as a person, though some of his songs are too good to ignore.

I think the ultimate crossover artist is one who can appeal to both black and white audiences, without pandering to either. Prince never acted like a white man to appeal to white audiences.  In the 1980's, when believe me... there was a lot of racism toward Prince, which I saw first-hand when my father opposed my listening to his music. I remember him demanding an answer for what the "Purple Rain" was about... I think he thought it was supposed to be a racial war of some type. He called him a "N****", which he never did about Michael Jackson. Maybe Prince was too black, and proud of it. Maybe that was his sin in racist America?

A friend and I were comparing reviews of his first albums and tours from the New York Times and the Philadelphia Inquirer, and we wondered what kind of reviews he would have gotten if he wasn't black.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/04/21/arts/music/prince-times-archive.html?_r=0

Quote
But to this taste, his work seems a calculated, not very original pastiche of several rock styles, of note mostly because what its success says about black attitudes toward white rock. If George Clinton, in a visual sense, represents a black extension of late-60's acid rock, then Prince is essentially a similar equivalent for early 70's glitter rock, with a bit of punk thrown in for contemporaneity.
 

There aren't that many artists that appeal to both black and white audiences. That's crossover, and Prince was royalty.
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Jed Cooper
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« Reply #1322 on: April 26, 2016, 08:59:32 AM »

It's not their musicianship or talent I'm comparing.  I stand corrected with respect to Prince being a crossover artist.  Obviously, he was.  I just don't think he was as popular or successful as Presley or Jackson in that regard, commercially (sales, chart entries, etc).  More of the latter two's music is known worldwide.  I'm sure more people at random could name more of their hits than Prince's.  That's not to say either is greater than the other.  That's an endless debate and not the point, just an observation.  As far as their personal lives go, that didn't even enter into it so I'm not sure why it was even brought up.  Inconsequential, really.  To go down that road... Elvis lost his wife and life out of sheer selfishness, blindness and stupidity.  Jackson, well, that was one weird-ass dude.  That whole thing with the child molestation was ridiculous.  Settling out of court that first time didn't look good.  Doesn't mean he was guilty, but looks bad nonetheless.  Having it happen again so many years later (10?) also doesn't look favorable.  Apparently, he didn't learn from Elvis' mistake and died in a similar fashion.  Music wise, they were incredible.  Personally, they were idiots.  Prince?  I don't know so I can't comment.  I suppose we'll find out once the results come back from the autopsy.  I hope it's nothing negative.  Bad enough he's gone without adding insult to injury with reports of foul play and/or some kind of addiction.       
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« Reply #1323 on: April 26, 2016, 09:05:18 AM »

I don't think of drug abuse as a crime  -- at least, if it is it's only to the person who is doing it to themselves. But, MJ's issues marred him in my eyes completely. Prince may have died from an OD, or from the effects of an OD the week before, but that doesn't put a negative spin on his career... so many other great musicians have died from ODs. Sexually assaulting people, yeah... that bothers me, and especially when it's children. Too many to ignore in MJs case. It clouds his career.
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bdc28
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« Reply #1324 on: April 26, 2016, 11:00:40 AM »

Sigh, it saddens me that this has to be brought up in this manner....but lets just go there one time and get over it.

ONE: MICHAEL JACKSON DID NOT SEXUALLY ASSAULT CHILDREN!!!! Let me be clearer on that....HE DID NOT. Anyone that is a parent that reasonably gives a sh*t knows that if you sexually assault a child....there is NO AMOUNT OF MONEY that will pay off the vengence of that childrens parents. These parents sent their kids to Michael knowing he was a caring guy as he never got to have a childhood and then later threatened to blackmail him...pure and simple. Its pretty much enough that most of those kids, now adults, recanted those statements and one committed suicide because of all this.

Second: Prince wasnt A crossover artist, he was THE crossover artist. Let me explain.

First, Elvis crossed over with NO ONE. He went into TWO genres, what was then "pop" and "gospel"...yes he did great in both but his rabid fans were his rabid fans. He wasnt crossover material at all, he was MEGA STAR!!! I bow down to him for that, but he would never cross over into the soul market because thats who he was ripping off to make his music. Not much love there.

Michael, well Michael was just Michael. No words necessary.

Prince, well lets be honest if you dont think Prince was crossover or that he had world appeal, truthfully I can say you havent been to any other part of the world. ESPECIALLY Europe where he is almost considered a God. And for good reason...

From the time Prince began his musical debut (19) any and ALL music played on his albums, every instrument were played by him. He only TOURED with a band because he couldnt do it all at the same time. Oh yeah, and THE TIME? In studio there music was done by Prince too.

If anyone was slow to appreciate Prince its because they didnt understand him. They didnt know how layered and deep his music composition was, why he was not gender bound. Why he could use a SYMBOL as his name and still get more record sales without a name than their next four artists at any time.

Every musician, singer, and artist, bowed to Prince. Eric Clapton was once asked what it was like to be the greatest guitar player in the world..he responded "I dont know, you will have to ask Prince". Thats straight bow down homage.

As to his worldwide recognition? Dude the US wasnt who cried when Prince died, it was the world.

And Ill be honest with you, insinuating "drugs" to smear a name of someone who cant defend themselves, or pedophilia, when you dont know the entire story, is honestly cheap. There are always people who hate because some are born into greatness....I get that. But dont think by tearing down their names it makes you somewhat equal. Because the best you could do in smearing their name couldnt equal their best efforts to fail at something. They would still do better at it than you.

Seriously, have some respect.
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Jed Cooper
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« Reply #1325 on: April 26, 2016, 11:07:41 AM »

Drug addiction may not be a crime but it is sad when we lose loved ones to it.  I'm not going to continue with any other personal problems these celebrities had.  What's important is the major loss of their loved ones; family, friends, colleagues and fans.

Prince was not THE crossover artist.  Elvis was.  He was the first one to continually, successfully chart over into country and rhythm & blues and gospel.  Um, no, Elvis did NOT rip off anyone.  He performed and recorded the music he grew up with and ALWAYS gave credit to black musicians.  Sad that these facts are often overlooked.  To a lesser degree, Michael Jackson was a successful crossover artist (but not country an gospel) and also with MTV.  I'm not saying Prince did not cross over, just that he wasn't as big a crossover artist as those two.  None of these artists knowingly, consciously broke musical racial barriers.  It just happened.  The fans have as much to do with that as do the artists. 

To stay on topic, it is sad celebrities' families have to endure all the media hype during mourning.  Unfortunately, that is the price to paid when it comes to fame, success and popularity.
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« Reply #1326 on: April 26, 2016, 11:13:46 AM »


ONE: MICHAEL JACKSON DID NOT SEXUALLY ASSAULT CHILDREN!!!! Let me be clearer on that....HE DID NOT. Anyone that is a parent that reasonably gives a sh*t knows that if you sexually assault a child....there is NO AMOUNT OF MONEY that will pay off the vengence of that childrens parents. These parents sent their kids to Michael knowing he was a caring guy as he never got to have a childhood and then later threatened to blackmail him...pure and simple. Its pretty much enough that most of those kids, now adults, recanted those statements and one committed suicide because of all this.


I did say allegations, and that they clouded his career for me... they did, and well before he died. But, let me ask you this: if your claim that MJ didn't commit the crimes is because parents would never take money to keep it hushed up (and possibly protecting their children from the lightlight in so doing), then how do you explain parents who would make up those charges and put their kids through that for money? Bad parents are bad parents, but you have to admit to both sides of that coin, if you're going to use that as the stance that proves his innocence.

The guy admitted to being Peter Pan, and from what I've read, he himself was abused as a child... so there were some serious issues he was dealing with all his life. But, there was some stuff going on that we'll never know about. We'll never know what was true, and what was made up, or who was willing to do anything for money. But we know something there was not quite right.

And I can't enjoy that man's legacy without that being a part of it. I can enjoy some of his songs, as I said... but his legacy is tarnished. Maybe without solid proof. But still... tarnished.

And yes, it's totally disrespectful to be discussing this. I agree... it was pretty shocking to see such an addition to this thread about Prince. It kind of hurt. He's one of the greatest of all time, and I've loved his music for as long as I can remember, and he was a great person in addition to his music.
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bdc28
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« Reply #1327 on: April 26, 2016, 11:33:19 AM »

Elvis gave credit to the people that "influenced him"? Thats funny. Because when Little Richard was asked about Elvis' rendition of Hound dog, a song that Little Richard had done before and gotten NO MONIES from after the fact....his very subtle words were "F8CK Elvis Presley".

I guess he said that because of Elvis' great respect for him.

I do love revisionist history. Its a nortorious fact that blacks during the fifties had their music suppressed to their own markets while whites ripped them off blind. But oh not "the great one" Elvis. He respected them so much that he ripped them off...sorry didnt rip off "was influenced word for word note for note". Too bad Vanilla Ice didnt think to say that about ripping off the "Under pressure" loop for ICE ICE BABY, could have saved him alot of money in legal fees.

Look you can believe that "crossover" concept all you want...but dont say he even TOUCHED R&B, he recycled it and packaged it as his own creation. Its not "respect" if you dont pay the artist you took it from, its robbery.

Tell you what, if you think Elvis respected them so much, go to ANY blues house in New Orleans or anywhere else for that matter....a real one. Show me where the picture of Elvis hangs.
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« Reply #1328 on: April 26, 2016, 11:35:06 AM »

:(  One more entry, and even now I know it's disrespectful to continue this, but I just had the thought.... the movie Spotlight discusses children victims of the priests' sexual abuse. Many killed themselves afterward. Many of the victims talked about how hard it was to be abused by someone they respected so much, who was like God himself to them. I can't help but see correlations here.

And, I'll just say one last time... no proof, and I don't know what happened. It's just clouded a legacy, and that is sad, whichever way you look at it.
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« Reply #1329 on: April 26, 2016, 11:36:02 AM »

Also, since we are on revisionist history...why not mention Elvis and his little problem with pedophilia. Lets please remember he got married as SOON as his gf turned legal age to do so...and they had been seeing each other for awhile. They met when she was what...14? 15?
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« Reply #1330 on: April 26, 2016, 11:36:57 AM »

Elvis gave credit to the people that "influenced him"? Thats funny. Because when Little Richard was asked about Elvis' rendition of Hound dog, a song that Little Richard had done before and gotten NO MONIES from after the fact....his very subtle words were "F8CK Elvis Presley".

I guess he said that because of Elvis' great respect for him.

I do love revisionist history. Its a nortorious fact that blacks during the fifties had their music suppressed to their own markets while whites ripped them off blind. But oh not "the great one" Elvis. He respected them so much that he ripped them off...sorry didnt rip off "was influenced word for word note for note". Too bad Vanilla Ice didnt think to say that about ripping off the "Under pressure" loop for ICE ICE BABY, could have saved him alot of money in legal fees.

Look you can believe that "crossover" concept all you want...but dont say he even TOUCHED R&B, he recycled it and packaged it as his own creation. Its not "respect" if you dont pay the artist you took it from, its robbery.

Tell you what, if you think Elvis respected them so much, go to ANY blues house in New Orleans or anywhere else for that matter....a real one. Show me where the picture of Elvis hangs.

Ooops, my post followed this one, but I hadn't read it first. Just wanted to say that these are great points.
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« Reply #1331 on: April 26, 2016, 11:37:38 AM »

Also, since we are on revisionist history...why not mention Elvis and his little problem with pedophilia. Lets please remember he got married as SOON as his gf turned legal age to do so...and they had been seeing each other for awhile. They met when she was what...14? 15?

Yes, see I didn't go there, but it's true.

I was reading about Prince's first wife. They met when she was 16, but he wouldn't go near her until she was legal.
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« Reply #1332 on: April 26, 2016, 11:41:12 AM »

Why would an accused pay hush money at all if they are innocent?  I don't get that.  I do know that I would pay hush money for an option to block Elvis related posts.

I saw Prince's last SNL appearance, and he f'n crushed it playing two different instruments while singing.  There is no tape of this as far as I know, but he also crushed it at the SNL 40 after party.  He looked to be in good shape, so I was surprised to hear of his death.
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bdc28
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« Reply #1333 on: April 26, 2016, 11:42:35 AM »

"I did say allegations, and that they clouded his career for me... they did, and well before he died. But, let me ask you this: if your claim that MJ didn't commit the crimes is because parents would never take money to keep it hushed up (and possibly protecting their children from the lightlight in so doing), then how do you explain parents who would make up those charges and put their kids through that for money? Bad parents are bad parents, but you have to admit to both sides of that coin, if you're going to use that as the stance that proves his innocence. "

I am not disagreeing with you Matt....I one hundred percent agree those parents are complete garbage. But I dont think EVERY SET of parents could be bought off. They went into it knowing they could bend Michael over for the money......

Sorry, I also have the same opinion of MOST of the women that claimed Bill Cosby raped them. Some of them true, yes. MOST of them true? Not at all.
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Jed Cooper
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« Reply #1334 on: April 26, 2016, 11:45:14 AM »

Elvis gave credit to the people that "influenced him"? Thats funny. Because when Little Richard was asked about Elvis' rendition of Hound dog, a song that Little Richard had done before and gotten NO MONIES from after the fact....his very subtle words were "F8CK Elvis Presley".

I guess he said that because of Elvis' great respect for him.

I do love revisionist history. Its a nortorious fact that blacks during the fifties had their music suppressed to their own markets while whites ripped them off blind. But oh not "the great one" Elvis. He respected them so much that he ripped them off...sorry didnt rip off "was influenced word for word note for note". Too bad Vanilla Ice didnt think to say that about ripping off the "Under pressure" loop for ICE ICE BABY, could have saved him alot of money in legal fees.

Look you can believe that "crossover" concept all you want...but dont say he even TOUCHED R&B, he recycled it and packaged it as his own creation. Its not "respect" if you dont pay the artist you took it from, its robbery.

Tell you what, if you think Elvis respected them so much, go to ANY blues house in New Orleans or anywhere else for that matter....a real one. Show me where the picture of Elvis hangs.

In the 1950's, it is on record and by that I mean recorded on audio that Elvis has stated that black musicians was doing the music he was performing before he ever did.  Fact.  During his '68 special he stated rock & roll music came from gospel and rhythm and blues.  Fact.  During a press conference that Fats Domino was in attendence, he called Fats Domino the "True King of Rock & Roll".  Fact.  You can't blame Elvis for becoming more popular and successful than his contemporaries, regardless of color.  Blame the fans.  They're the ones that bought all his records, went to his concerts, watched him on tv and saw his movies.  If other musicians have a problem with that, again, regardless of color, then that's just too damn bad.  That's the nature of the business.  It's not revisionist history.  It is a fact that Elvis was heavily influenced by gospel, r&b and gospel music growing up.  He didn't steal anything.  That's ludicrous.  Elvis loved those types of music and respected and admired fellow musicians like Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Bill Haley, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino, etc.  Oh and as for Little Richard, he is recorded as having saying he thanks God for Elvis Presley.  Fact. 

As for Prince his talent, charisma and professionalism will surely be missed by fans and fellow musicians around the world.  My thoughts and prayers go out to his family and loved ones.
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« Reply #1335 on: April 26, 2016, 11:48:39 AM »

Im sure he was heavily influenced by them. He could take their music without paying them a dime, I would be too.

Once again, revisionist history....but I am one for letting people hold illusions.
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Jed Cooper
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« Reply #1336 on: April 26, 2016, 11:50:13 AM »

Im sure he was heavily influenced by them. He could take their music without paying them a dime, I would be too.

Once again, revisionist history....but I am one for letting people hold illusions.

You don't have a clue.  You can't cite any examples or provide any proof whatsoever so give it up.   
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« Reply #1337 on: April 26, 2016, 12:04:40 PM »

LMAO, I dont have a clue because I dont have the hero worship for Elvis that you do?

I paraphrase Little Richard. And you quoting Elvis to say "Oh I respected them..." doesnt mean a SHRED to me. He sure as hell as didnt pay them (note I mentioned that Elvis outright stole Hound Dog and Little Richard had NO respect for it but you dont cite that).

I love how you act like this isnt documented history....R&B PREDATED Rock and Roll. Hell Rock and Roll in and of itself WOULD NOT EXIST without ....to use your phrase..."its influence".

The same can be said for Country music. It wouldnt exist if not for the Irish folk tunes that predated it.

I am not sure why you have such a problem with me NOT kissing Elvis a$$. Sorry I am not impressed with him.
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« Reply #1338 on: April 26, 2016, 12:08:16 PM »

And allow me to say, Elvis was not the first NOR THE LAST to rip off R&B. He just went furthest with it. And honestly THAT part I dont have a problem with.

But I am sorry, Elvis couldnt even carry Prince's bags. And I say that as someone who spent most of his life NOT A FAN OF PRINCE!!!!
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« Reply #1339 on: April 26, 2016, 12:12:19 PM »

LMAO, I dont have a clue because I dont have the hero worship for Elvis that you do?

I paraphrase Little Richard. And you quoting Elvis to say "Oh I respected them..." doesnt mean a SHRED to me. He sure as hell as didnt pay them (note I mentioned that Elvis outright stole Hound Dog and Little Richard had NO respect for it but you dont cite that).

I love how you act like this isnt documented history....R&B PREDATED Rock and Roll. Hell Rock and Roll in and of itself WOULD NOT EXIST without ....to use your phrase..."its influence".

The same can be said for Country music. It wouldnt exist if not for the Irish folk tunes that predated it.

I am not sure why you have such a problem with me NOT kissing Elvis a$$. Sorry I am not impressed with him.


And allow me to say, Elvis was not the first NOR THE LAST to rip off R&B. He just went furthest with it. And honestly THAT part I dont have a problem with.

But I am sorry, Elvis couldnt even carry Prince's bags. And I say that as someone who spent most of his life NOT A FAN OF PRINCE!!!!


So you're paraphrasing.  Obviously, facts don't mean much to you and doesn't lend credence to your ridiculous points.  You have no argument.  You know nothing of what you speak with this topic.  Many people hate Elvis.  Fact.  I could care less.  Fact.  You have proven my point.  Elvis was influenced by the music he grew up on, loved and admired it enough to record and perform it in his own unique way which helped create the big rock & roll bang, eventually leading the way for artists like Michael Jackson and Prince. 

Like it or not, these are the facts.  You choose to ignore them or pretend they never happened.  So be it.  Like it or not, Elvis will continue to influence and be talked about ANOTHER 39 years after his passing.  Not even Jackson and Prince will be.  The only other artist(s) that will be is The Beatles.

I know most if not all of this junk will be deleted because the postings are not relevent so I am through.  You can respond and attempt to bait me all you want from here on in but know this:  You are completely wrong.  Here endeth the lesson.

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