Clint Eastwood Forums

Organized Film Discussions => Previous Film Discussions => Topic started by: mgk on March 31, 2004, 11:15:10 PM

Title: HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: mgk on March 31, 2004, 11:15:10 PM
What is your overall feeling about this film? How would you rate it in comparison to the rest of Eastwood's films?  
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Brendan on April 05, 2004, 03:02:06 PM
I've always enjoyed Heartbreak Ridge just becuase it was a differant type of performance from Clint and it was a type of flim he hadn't done in awhile. Also all the one liners he kept giving off were great.  ;D It was just an all around good, enjoyable flick.  8)
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: allycat on April 10, 2004, 07:34:53 AM
As I said before, when I see Clint's performance here I also think of him in Unforgiven - two characters who are at a similar time of life, both considered 'past it' although Gunny is more confident in his job, they are both flawed and have their insecurities - Gunny in his personal life and Munny in his inability to fire a gun (and the fact that guns in Unforgiven are equated with men's genitalia means he is impotent in more ways than one). Perhaps it is ironic, then, following this metaphor, that Gunny is so confident and adept at firing a weapon, but he can't get his personal life together and resorts to reading women's magazines to try and understand his ex-wife.

Heartbreak Ridge is one of my favourite Clint films because I love Clint's acting, his gruff masculinity in this film, the dialogue is extremely witty (although it always is in Clint's films) and the subject matter is extremely interesting. I've always said that I love the fact that Clint has done such a wide variety of films and chosen such interesting acting roles. Each film is like a progression from the last I feel. And so often his characters are flawed, therefore more human and that's why we relate to them so well.  
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: vik on April 15, 2004, 08:43:31 AM
i saw it at leicester square and it was pretty full and the audience were laughing being entertained

i think that overall it is a good fun movie

its a modern military movie which is also good - no big heroics
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: mgk on April 19, 2004, 01:43:38 PM
Heartbreak Ridge is one of my favourite Clint films because I love Clint's acting, his gruff masculinity in this film, the dialogue is extremely witty (although it always is in Clint's films) and the subject matter is extremely interesting. I've always said that I love the fact that Clint has done such a wide variety of films and chosen such interesting acting roles. Each film is like a progression from the last I feel. And so often his characters are flawed, therefore more human and that's why we relate to them so well.  

When I first saw Heartbreak Ridge, for some reason something new hit me about Eastwood.  I think it was the first time that I realized that this man was an actor, a director, an artist........he wasn't just some super hero like "Dirty Harry" or "Manco/Blondie/Joe".  If I saw his movies in the order in which they came out, I should have first recognized this in Tightrope so I'm thinking that I must have seen Heartbreak Ridge first and that's why it continues to stand out in my mind.  And, I found a new respect for Eastwood as an actor because he was willing to discard his superhero image and become a character filled with insecurities and vulnerabilities.  I thought that was brave of him to do at that point in his career.  I know......he also did that in Tightrope but, as I explained above, I must have seen it after "Heartbreak."

Yes, as Ally said above, Eastwood's career has been built around the diversity of his films and is probably why he continues to be an icon today.  
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Philo Beddoe Jr on April 19, 2004, 07:54:46 PM
One of his better 'light' films.

Good fun, lots of laughs.  Classic opening scene.

WKC.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on April 21, 2004, 08:58:46 PM
 I can compare the way I feel about Heartbreak Ridge to The Gauntlet. In fact, the two films feel very similar to me in ways. I'd watched them both several times before finding anything enjoyable about them because I was so thrown off by how unrealistic they both were that I couldn't enjoy the best part of the films... the changing relationships between the characters.

Neither The Gauntlet nor Heartbreak Ridge are in my top 20 Eastwood favorites because I like movies that could happen. I have a difficult time watching any movie where I'm sitting there rolling my eyes at how factually inaccurate or how ridiculously over-the-top some things are just for the sake of humor (unless it's a mindless comedy that's strictly for laughs). Heartbreak Ridge bothers me more than The Gauntlet because, as I said in another thread, the inaccuracies of this film are at the expense of the respect for my country's servicemen (who, as anyone could probably tell, I feel deep respect and gratitude toward).  In order for me to learn to enjoy The Gauntlet, I had to make a determined effort to look past the things that bothered me about the film to find the better part of the story and when I did that, I felt a deeper appreciation for the film. Similarly, I've done that again with Heartbreak Ridge, though I'll never shed all of my resentment about the way the Marines are portrayed, but... I'll just try to look past that. ;)

What I love about The Gauntlet and Heartbreak Ridge are the relationships... starting out as volatile and vengeful, and ending up being those of mutual respect and admiration (in The Gauntlet it's between Ben and Gus, in Heartbreak Ridge you'll see this between Gunny and his entire Recon platoon and to some degree with Aggie.)

By the end of each of these two films, Clint's character has come to the end of the road...  and he finds a contentment and happiness that comes with that due to the love of a woman who we can imagine him settling down with. In both films, he starts out lost and winds up found. His self-destructive tendencies seem to ebb with the contentment that he's found with the woman he loves. In both films, the woman, in a sense, is his savior.

Looks like I went off on a tangent. Not the first time. ;)  But, I just find it interesting that these two films have some of these same qualities, and that in both cases I had to dig hard to find things about the films that I could enjoy.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: dane with no name on May 01, 2004, 04:30:41 PM
It´s a very light movie, especially when you compare the elements the movie has to other movies with a similar setting. The highway character is a mix of the sgt. Hulka character (from the army comedy Stripes (i think it´s called) with bill murray and harold ramis and sgt. hartman from full metal jacket (which came out a year later) It´s pretty clear that clint enjoys playing Highway and wants us to sit back and get some laughs (which explains the overly "comic" stitch jones and some of the profile scenes) watch some action, and maybe have a few thoughts on the issues about the army and war (the overall feling of aggie and roy, and the death of profile.)    
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: 1936ireckonso on May 08, 2004, 05:27:28 PM
 :)
  I love this movie..I served three years in the Marines ..they were good for me...I have this on DVD and watch it about every three months....I think it is a great message about team work....and about how some people have to learn to show respect to older folks....

   Respectfully,
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: vik on May 09, 2004, 05:43:04 AM
matt you haven't said which bit you actually don't like in heartbreak ridge - is it recon platoon you don't like? they are not acting like real marines?

because i don't get your dislike of the film - how many war films are a true depiction

are you saying heartbreak ridge was suppose to be a true depiction?

just asking  
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 09, 2004, 06:13:55 AM
matt you haven't said which bit you actually don't like in heartbreak ridge - is it recon platoon you don't like? they are not acting like real marines?

because i don't get your dislike of the film - how many war films are a true depiction

are you saying heartbreak ridge was suppose to be a true depiction?

just asking  


vik, the recon platoon is so ridiculously not even CLOSE to being a true depiction of recon Marines. I haven't wanted to litter every thread with what I dislike about it, and have commented on many things I did like about this film, but if you want to read in greater detail why I feel this way, see my posts in THIS (http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadid=2270) thread.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: vik on May 09, 2004, 06:57:38 AM
so a few folk took it seriously

war films rarely are true depiction - look at pearl harbour with ben affleck thats truely absurd

i take your point matt - but i think the marines etc. it all was an over-reaction to a good movie
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 09, 2004, 06:59:27 AM
It's not the language at all, and it's not really the humor, it's the fact that the humor is at the expense of the respect for U.S. Marines, who I admire for their bravery and service to this country. The Recon Marines in this film are lazy, unintelligent, untrained, disrespectful, spoiled brats. As bdc28 and I said in the other thread, it's virtually impossible for Recon Marines to be any of these things. And Lt. Ring is just pathetic. None of these men would even BE recon Marines unless they were skilled, intelligent and extremely physically fit. Did you look at the link in the other thread that showed the requirements Marines need before applying for the reconnaissance unit? That should answer your question as to what "bit is not so like marines".  EVERYTHING THEY DO.  When you keep in mind that Recon Marines are, as we said in the other thread, the most elite unit of the best trained branch of the entire U.S. military, depicting the men this way is an insult to the men who serve our country.

Let me try to put it another way....  you love and admire Clint Eastwood. How would you like to go see a film that shows him to be lazy, stupid, disrespectful to his friends and those he works with, cowardly, and spoiled ... all for the sake of a few laughs? Would you enjoy it? But it's a comedy! Aren't there other films out there based on people's lives that aren't accurate portrayals? So why not like this one? To me, it's no different.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: vik on May 09, 2004, 07:02:05 AM
but i don't thinks its a true comedy

there are other themes like reckonso said - respect etc.

isn't it just an over emphasis like many films - to make a point

if there was a film about clint like that i WOULDN'T SEE IT
and if i did see it then i would know it wasn't so but i don't think it would freak me out

and perhaps clint is like that  ;D
i expect mike moore has a film in the pipeline :-X
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 09, 2004, 07:08:35 AM
but i don't thinks its a true comedy

That makes it even harder to take.

Quote
there are other themes like reckonso said - respect etc.

Learning respect... yes, nice theme. But the disrespect shown in this film by a group of a Recon platoon soldiers toward their CO would never be there in the first place. Once again, think of it in terms of someone you really admire, like Clint. Would you think the theme of the film would be that great if Clint learned respect for his friends and co-workers at the end of the film? I imagine you'd feel about that film the way I feel about this one. It was never there to begin with, so the whole movie would be an insult to him.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: vik on May 09, 2004, 07:12:11 AM
umm i'm lost now

the job of highway was to get a group of guys into fighting marines - he did that

just with a bit of over emphasis

but i do understand your point of view and appreciate what you have said i agree i never saw it as disrespectful you have said perhaps it is fair enough

i never went and saw the patriot because they said it was disrespectful to the british
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 09, 2004, 07:24:10 AM
Recon Marines are already fighting Marines before they even are selected for a Recon unit. What we see in this film is more along the lines of basic infantry training. So, it's not only impossible that the platoon would be this inept to begin with, but the attitudes of the men are simply completely unrealistic in an insulting way.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: vik on May 09, 2004, 07:27:16 AM
so did clint not see it a disrespectful or did he use the wrong platoon or concept then?

btw who was cowardly and spoiled?

i saw disrespect
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 09, 2004, 07:47:03 AM
I don't know what Clint thought, but I do know that the film was supposed to be an Army film, and when the Army wouldn't give their support, they decided to make it a film about Marines, and then the Marines pulled their support too. I think that says a lot.

I think this film would have worked better if it was set during a period when there was a draft. Then we could have a group of men who never wanted to be in the service at all and the insolence they display would be more fitting. But since there was no draft for Grenada, they couldn't have been able to whisk in and out of war in two days like they do in this film.


btw who was cowardly and spoiled?

i saw disrespect

The entire platoon. They were spoiled by their previous CO who went "R.O.A.D. on them" by letting the platoon get lazy. So when Gunny comes along, rather than obey him, they thought they'd overpower him and bully him into leaving them alone. I call that spoiled.  As for being cowardly, would you call any of them brave at the start of the film? I see bravado, not bravery.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: vik on May 09, 2004, 08:01:47 AM
they didn't say they didn't want to be there - they just said they didn't want to do anything and i don't think they were cowards or spoiled as such

all it showed was our gunny highway was a hero and a great marine and a great guy and the rest was a rabble
and highway made them marines - i presume that was his job and he did it

seems plausible to me

i think if he did draft then you would be looking at kelley's heroes - i expect he wanted it more modern

perhaps it should have been the basic army rather than marines your recon comment was right
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 09, 2004, 08:12:12 AM
Gunny Highway is a great character, and I do know that was the reason Clint chose this film--he loved the Highway character too. I actually think that Major Powers is a realistic character; but excepting him, Choozoo and Highway, the way every other Marine is presented here is not plausible at all.

As I said in my first post in this thread, there are things that I like about this film and that make the film enjoyable for me. I just have to look past the way the platoon soldiers are portrayed in order to enjoy it.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 09, 2004, 08:16:00 AM

i think if he did draft then you would be looking at kelley's heroes - i expect he wanted it more modern


Yeah, I agree, I think Clint wanted it more modern too. Also, since the focus of Heartbreak Ridge isn't about going to war, but the relationships, going to Grenada enabled them to keep the entire war at only about 25 minutes of screen time. What I said about this film working better if it was set during a period when there was a draft was simply because that's the only situation where I could accept the attitudes that the soldiers in this platoon display.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: allycat on May 09, 2004, 09:28:55 AM
I think the issue of the film being inaccurate in its portrayal of marines is an important one. I would like to believe that most directors strive for accuracy in their films (e.g. Sergio Leone is supposed to have consulted the history books for GBU) but of course, they can't get it right all the time. I think we can overlook a few minor inaccuracies which don't affect the story as such (e.g. in Unforgiven, Richard Harris shouldn't have been able to shoot a pheasant, given that the film is set in 1881 and the bird wasn't introduced to America until a year later - but who really cares about that?!).

But if it's something more major, I think it gets in the way of our enjoyment of the film, as I believe Matt is suggesting. For example, as vik has mentioned, on a slightly-off topic note (if I may), The Patriot is blatantly historically inaccurate. While the supposed brutality of the British forces is stressed, Mel Gibson conveniently neglects to include the negative qualities of his own character, (based on the real revolutionary war guerrila The Swamp Fox), namely his habit of supporting the attempted genocide of Native Americans by taking part in massacres, and also raping female slaves.

My point is, that when such liberties are taken with the truth, it puts you off seeing a film, or spoils your enjoyment of the film. I do really like Heartbreak Ridge but it's rather surprising to me that, if both the army and the marines withdrew their support for the film, that Clint would go ahead and make it anyway. I can't know for sure, but maybe Clint felt that this was the way he wanted to tell the story, and perhaps some of the humour in the film might have been lost had the portrayal of the marines been more realistic - who knows? (However, I know not everyone finds the recon platoon to be that funny). It would be interesting to find out just what it was about the script that made Clint want to film this particular version, and not strive for more realism.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: vik on May 09, 2004, 12:09:04 PM
nicely summed up allycat

of course being from another country i didn't appreciate all that matt was saying

i can understand why clint went ahead with it - he had made the picture probably by the time they withdrew support - once you have spent the money you are hardly likely to withdraw it

and i expect if they had advance screenings few people would have taken a critical point that matt has

and even now after all he said i still think its a good film
but ok not an accurate portrayal
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: mgk on May 09, 2004, 02:24:52 PM
vik - I hope you checked out the link Matt gave at the beginning of today's discussion because you will find that I agreed with his point of view in that thread and so did BDC28.  So, he's not the only one.

I can not think of another military movie that depicts enlistees or draftees in this light.  All military branches are very strict disciplinarians.  Every member of this recon group would have either been in the "stockade," like Swede was so often for fighting, or courtmartialed if that kind of behavior had gone on for that long.  It's just not allowed.  So, it bothers me as well that a movie Eastwood makes (or anyone, for that matter) would show our military being this impudent and insolent and this incompetent.  The recruits or enlistees just wouldn't have the audacity to behave like that and, even if they did, it would only take about a day for them to figure out that there were serious consequences and that's usually a good behavior modification tool.

When you think about how many movies the Army, the Marines, or the Navy have supported because the movie makes them look so good and encourage new recruits to sign up, you would think they would want to attach their names to a film Eastwood would do about the military.  But, the Army refused support of the film from the very beginning.  The Marines withdrew their support at an advance screening and demanded that their approval be stricken from the credits.  

Grant it...the movie would not be the same if these recons weren't total misfits but, the fact that they are, keeps it from being all that realistic to me and THAT I do find bothersome.  I don't like to see our military presented as a "joke" because they are in no way a joke.

In spite of all of that, I still like the movie but my like for the movie has more to do with the evolving relationship between Gunny and Aggie.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: vik on May 10, 2004, 02:15:01 AM
sorry - so many war movies don't depict the real events i think you are being very harsh

i understand what you are saying and still say its a good movie

try pearl harbour - ben affleck
try any war movie
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 10, 2004, 04:24:37 AM
We're not talking about innaccuracites of events. I don't really care about the inaccuracies that we see about the events in Grenada. That doesn't matter to me. What I care about are inaccuracies in the way our military men are portrayed... not only a little inaccurate, but entirely inaccurate and unflattering and insulting to them. And since it appears there are people out there who don't realize how inaccurate these portrayals are, then I don't see why it's so hard to understand why it would upset those of us who have respect for those men who protect our country to see them portrayed this way.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: vik on May 10, 2004, 04:50:57 AM
cool matt, mgk - as i said before point taken
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: dane with no name on May 13, 2004, 05:57:10 AM
Hi matt.
I dont know who said that s/he felt the way recon was portrayed seemed accurate but it must seem pretty clear to me that whoever said that doesnt have any military training or knowledge about the military, so i dont think you should take that statement too serious.
Even (before i served my country in 92) i could see with half an eye that the soldiers in heartbreak ridge isnt an actual portrayal of ANY army unit way back when i saw it the first time.
The movie never states that this is based on actual events, and it keeps a light mood throughout the entire movie, (profiles death is quickly dismissed, as the fighting scenes are filled with oneliners, not really a thing you got time for during a firefight.) I could point out a lot of strategic and military errors recon bumples through during the entire movie but eastwood didnt make the movie to give an actual portrayal of the marines. He did it to entertain us, tell us a story, and everyone is invited for the ride, be that people who dont know jack about military, or old "leathernecks" ;)  
   
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 13, 2004, 09:09:36 PM
That's fine, Dane. You and vik and everyone else who enjoys the film ... I'm not trying to change your opinion of the film, just giving mine. I wonder if the fact that those of you that seem to enjoy this aspect of the film (the portrayal of the Marines) are all non-Americans, and those of us who don't like it are American, is something that should be taken into consideration (though it's a small sample size ;) ) Maybe it just simply doesn't offend non-Americans as much because it's not your country's servicemen who are inaccurately portrayed as a bunch of disrespectful incompetents. I'm not trying to start anything here, just making an observation. Considering how our military is viewed by many people outside our country, I don't think it's that far-fetched to see why a film like this that portrays our military men in such a bad light would bother some of us Americans more than those of you abroad.

I also don't know that I would call this a "light" film. It's got a lot of comedy in it, but it also deals with a lot of serious issues. As noted by Dane, they do show one of their men killed in action, but even though they don't dwell on Profile's death for long, they put it in there to show that it's not all fun and games, it's war. And of course, they brought in some history discussing Heartbreak Ridge.

Kelly's Heroes is a true comedy, and I have no problem with that film or the soldier's portrayals at all. But Heartbreak Ridge is trying to be both a drama and a comedy at the same time, but in the end, it seems that just about all of the comedy comes from the portrayal of the "pathetic" Marines.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: bcm on May 15, 2004, 02:46:57 PM
I know I know, I don't get the point of the movie AT ALL. When I think it's serious, it's meant as comedy. But please Matt, can you explain me where the drama of the film is?
Quote
 Heartbreak Ridge is trying to be both a drama and a comedy at the same time, but in the end, it seems that just about all of the comedy comes from the portrayal of the "pathetic" Marines.
 Honestly, it never occurred to me that a film coming out of the entertainment industry could be understood as a documentary! If I want to know how the US marines really are, I guess I need a mix between the "all-positive" publicity image and the "all-negative" news coverage. The truth is always somewhere in the middle.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 15, 2004, 02:51:48 PM
Sure, there's drama in this film. Is it funny when Profile dies? Is it funny when Aggie's crying on Highway's shoulder when she was finally telling him of the months and years she spent worrying if he was dead or alive? Is it funny that a man who's spent his entire life working and gives everything he has to his job is suddenly lost with nothing and nowhere to go... forced into retirement?  If you think any of that is comedy, then let me know. ::) Until then... I think you'll see it's a comedy AND a drama.

I've said over and over again, but in case you're having a hard time understanding... I'm not saying that the events in this film that are inaccurately portrayed bother me. I've said in other threads it's not a documentary, so that doesn't matter to me. But when almost every serviceman is portrayed in this film inaccurately to the point of absurdity, and it's NOT a comedy, then I have a problem with it.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: allycat on May 15, 2004, 03:13:58 PM
Like I've said before, if a film inaccurately portrays certain things, it can spoil your enjoyment of the film. It doesn't have to be made like a documentary, no one's saying that. But you expect certain basic elements to be accurate. As I mentioned before, that's why The Patriot annoyed me.

And as for drama...Heartbreak Ridge is full of it. I find it difficult to believe anyone could find the film entirely pointless. But each to his/her own, I guess.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: allycat on May 15, 2004, 03:24:31 PM
That's fine, Dane. You and vik and everyone else who enjoys the film ... I'm not trying to change your opinion of the film, just giving mine. I wonder if the fact that those of you that seem to enjoy this aspect of the film (the portrayal of the Marines) are all non-Americans, and those of us who don't like it are American, is something that should be taken into consideration (though it's a small sample size ;) ) Maybe it just simply doesn't offend non-Americans as much because it's not your country's servicemen who are inaccurately portrayed as a bunch of disrespectful incompetents. I'm not trying to start anything here, just making an observation. Considering how our military is viewed by many people outside our country, I don't think it's that far-fetched to see why a film like this that portrays our military men in such a bad light would bother some of us Americans more than those of you abroad.

I think you have a point there, Matt. It would make sense that non-Americans would be less offended than Americans. I'm sure that I don't just speak for myself when I say that not everyone outside America would believe it was a true portrayal. I certainly never did. And in light of current events at home here in England, for example, regarding the behaviour of the armed forces (which I won't go into here, but I think you know what I'm talking about) - no one likes their military to get a bad press, because it reflects on the country as a whole. So I can understand how you feel.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: bcm on May 16, 2004, 04:58:42 AM
Quote
Not  favorite or happiest but heaviest at least:

I'll make life takers and heartbreakers out of them sir..."
   
This is a guote from D'Amb in the Favorite quote thread. And I will try to explain you my difficulty with drama vs comedy with that quote. If you interpret the quote the way I do, it shows you a very frustrated, sad view of the army (as D'Amb points out, it's heavy). If you understand it that way, it has nothing to do with comedy, and then I agree that the movie is drama pure. As I pointed out somewhere else, I found most of that language sad. But, as Matt and mgk pointed out, it is meant as comedy, and I apparently understand it all wrong (not just this sentence, but most of them can be understood and interpreted both ways). So, the irony in this is, that I was the one seeing drama and sadness in the film, and I was explained that it is comedy. I agree that the death of  Profile isn't funny. But I don't think it's sad either. Did you feel sad because of his death? I didn't, and I assure you I'm the first one to cry at anything very, truly sad. But I don't think the audience feels any real sympathy to Profile, so the audience doesn't grief his death either.
  I also agree that the moments with Aggie aren't funny. They are sincere, honest. ImBD seems to view them as drama, since the film is also listed as drama there. But I really have trouble to accept that the true drama in my perception (the "becoming a life taker") is supposed to be funny, whereas a simple, honest, true discussion between two ex-married is drama. If I am supposed to understand the major party of the film as comedy, then I'm simply not able to give Highway enough character depth to really feel for him, hence my lack of sadness at the "drama-moments". This also partly explains why I have so much trouble understanding why Aggie would want such a man back. Sorry not to fit in with the rest of you, but maybe you can at least try to accept why I  see this movie from a different angle...
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: dane with no name on May 16, 2004, 06:21:48 AM
Quote
But Heartbreak Ridge is trying to be both a drama and a comedy at the same time, but in the end, it seems that just about all of the comedy comes from the portrayal of the "pathetic" Marines.

I can agree with that, but i still dont see why anyone should think that this was an accurate description (i´ll assume that whoever said it was an accurate description of the events has no military training or knowledge whatsoever)

Speaking for myself, i can say that the fact that it is the u.s. marines who looks like fools doesnt matter from my point of view, because to me it seems pretty obvious that this movie is all about entertainment, so why should i ever take this movie seriously from a military point of view?
(There is at least two danish movies i can think of now that follows the exact same lines as heartbreak ridge. But maybe it´s just me having a better time swalloving them because the acting and plot is APPALING)

I am certainly not trying to change your mind Matt, different opinions about movies is one of the things that drives this discussion board (it´d be pretty dull sitting around patting each others (and clints) back ;))

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I don't think it's that far-fetched to see why a film like this that portrays our military men in such a bad light would bother some of us Americans more than those of you abroad.
You make it sound like we dont like the marines, Matt  ;)
I find it hard to believe that us "foreigners" ;D take our political view into consideration when we watch eastwood. (anyone who does really needs to lighten up)
That would mean he had to feel with the poor criminals and think of the tragic way that led them down the way of dirtbaggery when harry blows them away...
Instead we hoot, laugh, or sit in awe over the coolness of harry  ;)
Should we sit and be angry about the portrayal of stupid germans (and these should be the elite, since they guard the eagles nest??) who dont seem able to tie their own shoelashes when clint blows them away in Where eagles dare?
i think not  ;D
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 16, 2004, 06:39:37 AM
This is a guote from D'Amb in the Favorite quote thread. And I will try to explain you my difficulty with drama vs comedy with that quote. If you interpret the quote the way I do, it shows you a very frustrated, sad view of the army (as D'Amb points out, it's heavy). If you understand it that way, it has nothing to do with comedy, and then I agree that the movie is drama pure. As I pointed out somewhere else, I found most of that language sad. But, as Matt and mgk pointed out, it is meant as comedy, and I apparently understand it all wrong (not just this sentence, but most of them can be understood and interpreted both ways). So, the irony in this is, that I was the one seeing drama and sadness in the film, and I was explained that it is comedy. I agree that the death of  Profile isn't funny. But I don't think it's sad either. Did you feel sad because of his death? I didn't, and I assure you I'm the first one to cry at anything very, truly sad. But I don't think the audience feels any real sympathy to Profile, so the audience doesn't grief his death either.
  I also agree that the moments with Aggie aren't funny. They are sincere, honest. ImBD seems to view them as drama, since the film is also listed as drama there. But I really have trouble to accept that the true drama in my perception (the "becoming a life taker") is supposed to be funny, whereas a simple, honest, true discussion between two ex-married is drama. If I am supposed to understand the major party of the film as comedy, then I'm simply not able to give Highway enough character depth to really feel for him, hence my lack of sadness at the "drama-moments". This also partly explains why I have so much trouble understanding why Aggie would want such a man back. Sorry not to fit in with the rest of you, but maybe you can at least try to accept why I  see this movie from a different angle...


bcm, I really don't understand how this can be so confusing for you. The film is both a comedy AND a drama (even as you looked this up on the IMDb to check that, you saw they listed it in both genres, so what exactly are you arguing here?)  mgk never said the movie was a comedy, she said you were MISSING THE COMEDY in those quotes... in those scenes... that you had taken at face value and thought were serious. Are you misinterpreting her now, too?  In every situation that you had mentioned as serious in your posts to prove whatever viewpoints you had, you were missing the comedy in the scenes and thus your view of the character Gunny Highway was wildly distorted. I can't believe that you thought Gunny was serious when he said to Aggie here:

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Aggie: What do they say about ex-wives?
Gunny: Not too much. Just that sex is great because you don't have to establish a relationship or be meaningful.

And that you actually used that quote to try to prove that Gunny is a cold, hard character who wasn't ready for a relationship with Aggie.  But, you're also now having difficulty seeing the drama in the film in the Profile scene and others because they didn't make you want to cry? You can't differentiate at all between what's comedy and what's drama?  I'm honestly baffled as to how you're interpreting this film if you're not finding the comedy, and now you're not finding the drama. So what is it to you?

When we do a film discussion, we know there will be other opinions and viewpoints from our members, that's fine. You're free to dislike Gunny's character and think all the ill that you do of him. But when the reasons for your disliking him are because you misinterpret him throughout the entire movie, then we're going to try to explain the film and character to you. But when it's this hard for you to differentiate the moments in the film where someone is joking with serious moments, then I don't know that you'll ever come away with a true understanding of the film or the characters unless every line in the script was dissected and explained to you. And no, I can not accept your viewpoints of this movie because almost everything you've posted in this film discussion has been a total misinterpretation of the film, and I think it's because you can't differentiate between the comedy and the drama.

mgk, Allycat and I have tried to explain the film and these characters, but aside from admitting you were wrong about Gunny having PTSD (thank God you listened to that) you've simply argued your points over and over and over again rather than listening to what's been explained, and you're getting angry and defensive.  At this point, I'd suggest you watch the film again with everything that's been said in these discussion threads to try to understand the film instead of just trying to find more proof, in whatever form you can find it, to substantiate your claims.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 16, 2004, 06:54:21 AM
I find it hard to believe that us "foreigners"  take our political view into consideration when we watch eastwood. (anyone who does really needs to lighten up)

I'm not saying that "foreigners" take their political viewpoints into consideration watching this movie, but are you going to tell me that our military is as loved outside of this country as it is here? I felt it's worth mentioning that the difference in how we feel about those Marine portrayals is probably due to the fact that the Americans posting here see this as an insult to our military, and meanwhile, every European posting in this thread is having a hard time understanding why we feel that way. It has to do with the men who protect our country being portrayed as a bunch of idiots, and this is especially bothersome when our military is regarded so poorly outside of the States. I know that most will not see this as an accurate portrayal, but how many know just HOW inaccurate it is? How much of that stereotype seeps through the cracks? I'd like to ask how many people here knew before we started discussing this film that a Marine recon platoon is the most elite branch of the entire military and that in order to become a recon Marine you not only had to have exceptional skills, but your scores on varied academic testing had to be in the very highest levels? Maybe not everyone's opinion, or even many people's opinions of the Marines is affected by this film, but in a less conscious way, I think it does help form or enforce opinions in some people, and that does bother me. I know it doesn't bother every American watching this movie, but it bothers me and a few others who have posted in these discussions.


Should we sit and be angry about the portrayal of stupid germans (and these should be the elite, since they guard the eagles nest??) who dont seem able to tie their own shoelashes when clint blows them away in Where eagles dare?
i think not  ;D


Maybe so. Maybe the way I feel about the portrayal of the Marines in this film is similar to what a member said in a different thread in the Off Topic forum about a different film:

I admit I enjoy watching this film, but in the other hand, as a latin american citizen, sometimes I feel tired to see some simple perception from film makers.
I mean, the idea is simple: american soldiers are the good guys, good looking and have the better girls! ;) , In the other hand you have bad russian, worst south americans (always in drugs, rude, and bad looking), terribles japaneses, dirty chineses...you name it....and all with bad aim ...LOL. ...but hurts.....

The point is, sometimes this kind of films have negative connotations from other races than north americans

And this film gives a negative connotation about Americans in general and Marines specifically.

The funny thing about this thread is that I said I actually liked the film, but didn't like this aspect of the film. I've not tried to change anyone's viewpoint here, but was asked to give a more in-depth reason for what I didn't like, and I've provided that.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: allycat on May 16, 2004, 07:54:33 AM
I felt it's worth mentioning that the difference in how we feel about those Marine portrayals is probably due to the fact that the Americans posting here see this as an insult to our military, and meanwhile, every European posting in this thread is having a hard time understanding why we feel that way.

Hey, not every European ;) Like I said before though, you make a valid point.

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I'd like to ask how many people here knew before we started discussing this film that a Marine recon platoon is the most elite branch of the entire military and that in order to become a recon Marine you not only had to have exceptional skills, but your scores on varied academic testing had to be in the very highest levels?

Another valid point. I didn't know this myself. I doubt few of us outside America (except perhaps those who have served in the military themselves) would know this.

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Maybe the way I feel about the portrayal of the Marines in this film is similar to what a member said in a different thread in the Off Topic forum about a different film. And this film gives a negative connotation about Americans in general and Marines specifically.

Yeah, I agree with Fr@mus here. Cultural stereotyping gets to us all, I think. I'd be lying if I said it didn't get to me that English actors often play bad guys in films  ::) Not just that, but the fact that certain films such as those starring Hugh Grant  >:( give a very 'quaint', tea-and-crumpets view of my country which just isn't true  ??? So I think many of us outside America know why this misrepresentation of the Marines in Heartbreak Ridge would be upsetting for some Americans, because we can relate to it in other, similar ways.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: mgk on May 16, 2004, 09:52:59 AM
This is a guote from D'Amb in the Favorite quote thread. And I will try to explain you my difficulty with drama vs comedy with that quote. If you interpret the quote the way I do, it shows you a very frustrated, sad view of the army (as D'Amb points out, it's heavy). If you understand it that way, it has nothing to do with comedy, and then I agree that the movie is drama pure.

How can you conclude that "if you understand it that way........" then the movie has nothing to do with comedy and is therefore "drama pure"?  How in the world did you decide that?  As we have stated before, this movie is a drama with a lot of comedy thrown in to "lighten it up."  I don't think you will ever be able to understand this movie if you can't determine when it's supposed to be serious and when it's supposed to be funny.  If you can't accept it as both then we can argue this until hell freezes over and never get anywhere.  Maybe this is just one of Eastwood's movies that you are never going to fully understand and, most likely, never going to like.

I agree that the death of  Profile isn't funny. But I don't think it's sad either. Did you feel sad because of his death? I didn't, and I assure you I'm the first one to cry at anything very, truly sad. But I don't think the audience feels any real sympathy to Profile, so the audience doesn't grief his death either.

Yes, I felt sad when Profile was killed and I felt really sad when the faces of his fellow marines were shown as they looked at Profile's lifeless body and couldn't believe he was actually dead.  And, I found it profoundly sad when Gunny said, "It's not up to me."  Of course it wasn't up to him.  He had spent all of this time trying to get them ready for any battle they may eventually face to keep them from being put in a body bag and shipped home.  You said in that quote above, "But I don't think the audience feels any real sympathy to Profile, so the audience doesn't grief his death either."  Which audience are you talking about?  You can't lump everyone into the same "audience."  You obviously didn't feel any "real sympathy to Profile" but I did.  

But I really have trouble to accept that the true drama in my perception (the "becoming a life taker") is supposed to be funny, whereas a simple, honest, true discussion between two ex-married is drama.

The quote that D'Amb used is NOT supposed to be funny.  Nothing is funny about becoming "life takers and heartbreakers."  To me, that quote just emphasizes how difficult it is to become a soldier who is prepared to actually go into war.  You seem to be hung up on making this movie EITHER a drama or a comedy but you are not accepting that it is BOTH.  A movie doesn't have to be one or the other.  Look at Honkytonk Man.  This is a movie about a man who suffers from tuberculosis and is dying.  He only has a few weeks to live.  That's about as "drama pure" as you can get........you would think.  And, when he dies at the end?  Can anything be sadder?  However, that movie is filled with comedic scenes.  What about when Red takes a bath outside in that field and is attacked by the bull and has to run up that tower dressed only in his underwear?  What about the scene where he and Whit end up stealing chickens?  Those were hysterically funny yet this movie is basically about a man dying a slow death.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: dane with no name on May 17, 2004, 09:29:18 AM
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are you going to tell me that our military is as loved outside of this country as it is here? I felt it's worth mentioning that the difference in how we feel about those Marine portrayals is probably due to the fact that the Americans posting here see this as an insult to our military, and meanwhile, every European posting in this thread is having a hard time understanding why we feel that way.

Those of us who loves the military over here, loves our own fighting forces the highest of course ;). But up unto the second iraqi war i think most people were pretty cool with the U.S. forces. Sure, some didnt like the army, but that was a general feeling pointed towards all nations armies, not just the U.S. The U.S. forces had in general the european support during the liberation of kuwait, the quenching of the balkan conflict, and the fight against the taleban.
The times are over when people shouted babykiller e.t.c. after veterans/soldiers, they now place the blame where it should be, at the politicians. That is mainly due to the massive information we get from the media. (tv,papers, internet.)
 I dont have a hard time seeing why some of you dont like the protrayal. We are all different, have different points of view, and when these viewpoints are ridiculed, we get angry.
 
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I know that most will not see this as an accurate portrayal, but how many know just HOW inaccurate it is? How much of that stereotype seeps through the cracks?

That´s the danger with all movies that take place around historical (or even looks historical) events. Some less intelligent persons may think that this is the actual portrayal of events, and that´s something we´ll just have to live with. What is the alternative? Big labels on the cover saying NOT BASED ON ACTUAL EVENTS?  ;)Banning? Should movies like the outlaw josey wales be banned because it portrays the north in a bad way??
We have a saying in denmark that goes something like ; Against stupidity even the gods fight in vain. that´s the same problem here. Some might think heartbreak ridge is based on actual events but those are the same people that may think saving private ryan, outbreak, and windtalkers are actual descriptions of past events...

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I'd like to ask how many people here knew before we started discussing this film that a Marine recon platoon is the most elite branch of the entire military and that in order to become a recon Marine you not only had to have exceptional skills, but your scores on varied academic testing had to be in the very highest levels?

by elite branch of the entire military, i take it that you mean the backbone of the military (the marines), not the entire fighting forces (which includes the deltas, rangers, seals, green berets e.t.c.)
I didnt know it per see, but i found it pretty obvious. i think it´s the custom of every nation to offer soldiers from special branches (recon,divers, communications, etc.) in the backbone of their prime military forces a chance to make a career in their special forces, it sure is the custom over here.
I know recon is considered a special branch of the marines with higher standards for applying, but that´s because you dont use draftees, so you can set higher standards for such special branches.


Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 17, 2004, 04:39:15 PM

I dont have a hard time seeing why some of you dont like the protrayal.

Good, that's all that matters. It's just how I feel (and I don't generally speak for others, but I'm not the only one) about this aspect of the film. I'm surprised I've been taken to task about this. If someone doesn't like the way someone is portrayed in a movie, why should that even be up for debate? If Native Americans complain about how they've been portrayed in films, and said something about it, would they receive this much disbelief at those opinions? I don't see the difference. They've been portrayed inaccurately in films that weren't documentaries... some with quite a bit of humor in them, and they don't like it either.  Don Siegel said in his biography A Siegel Film that it really bothered him seeing stereotypes like the "stupid" Nazis in all the World War II films. It weakens the films to have such a one-dimensional, inaccurate view of a particular race or large segment of people. A portrayal of one or two stupid people in a film (like Harry's superiors in the  Dirty Harry films) is one thing... it's quite another when you portray everyone in a group that way.
 
Quote
That´s the danger with all movies that take place around historical (or even looks historical) events. Some less intelligent persons may think that this is the actual portrayal of events, and that´s something we´ll just have to live with. What is the alternative? Big labels on the cover saying NOT BASED ON ACTUAL EVENTS?  ;)Banning?

No, because as I said before, this isn't a documentary and not having the events completely factual doesn't bother me. It's the stereotypes of the Marines that bothered me. That's totally different.

I've been trying to find a quote I found when we were preparing this film discussion, but with the large amount of material I read for this, I'm not able to put my finger on it yet... but when I find it, I will post it here. One of the reasons the Marines pulled their support was because it "stereotyped Marines". As mgk said, the Armed Forces are usually happy to give their support in military films because it helps with recruiting. The Marines felt these portrayals were so bad, they pulled their support and insisted that their involvement be stricken from the credits. If these stereotypes were so harmless, why would they do that?

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by elite branch of the entire military, i take it that you mean the backbone of the military (the marines), not the entire fighting forces (which includes the deltas, rangers, seals, green berets e.t.c.)

The Marines are generally recognized as the most elite branch of the U.S. Military. The Marine recon unit, is the most elite segment of the Marines.

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Comprised of smart, highly adaptable men and women, the Marine Corps serves as the aggressive tip of the U.S. military spear. Ours is a smaller, more dynamic force than any other in the American arsenal, and the only forward-deployed force designed for expeditionary operations by air, land, or sea. It is our size and expertise that allow us to move faster. Working to overcome disadvantage and turn conflict into victory, we accomplish great things, and we do so together.
http://www.marines.com/about_marines/default.asp

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To the Marine Corps, all Marines are "elite," and Marine Corps senior leaders made the decision not to have any specific unit designated as "more elite." However, this plan kind of backfired. More and more of the Special Operations missions were going to the other services, because they had designated "Special Operations," who were all a part of the overall Special Operations Command. This was not a good thing, the brass decided, and Marine Force Recon officially joined the Special Operations Community. ....

There are three Marine Force Recon Companies on active duty, and two in the Reserves. ...

The above are the elite of the elite.

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/weekly/aa032803c.htm

I didnt know it per see, but i found it pretty obvious.

You found it obvious that the soldiers in Heartbreak Ridge were the "elite of the elite" of the U.S. Military? You knew that from watching the film, or because you have a military background? I'd find it hard to believe anyone would get that impression watching this film.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: dane with no name on May 18, 2004, 06:27:31 AM
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I'm surprised I've been taken to task about this. If someone doesn't like the way someone is portrayed in a movie, why should that even be up for debate?


In my mind, thats when the really good debates start, when people got different opinions about movies (or parts of). I have however never challenged your view nor opinion on the recon marines, merely asked whoever said that s/he thought it was an actual protrayal, (just checked my posts, to make sure there werent any disagreements with you. Should something i´ve written given you that impression, please point it out, it was never intended ;))

Our little debate then spread into the discussion about europeans/americans views of the movie, and has ended (so far) in a general debate about the (vrong) impressions a movie could give, and the overall status of the recon units. Sure, this discussion might belong in the non clint section, or over PM,  but heartbreak ridge sparked it, and i´ve  found it quite enjoyable so far.  :D

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No, because as I said before, this isn't a documentary and not having the events completely factual doesn't bother me. It's the stereotypes of the Marines that bothered me. That's totally different.


I didnt think of documentaries when i wrote about heartbreak ridge. i was thinking about movies made for entertainment that takes place during historical events, not neccesarily accurate, but has some link to these past events through storyline, lines, or references. I used the three before mentioned movies (saving private ryan, outbreak, and windtalkers) as examples (because i´ve met people who thought that these movies were EXACT, ACTUAL events  :o  ::) )to stress my point.
 
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One of the reasons the Marines pulled their support was because it "stereotyped Marines". As mgk said, the Armed Forces are usually happy to give their support in military films because it helps with recruiting. The Marines felt these portrayals were so bad, they pulled their support and insisted that their involvement be stricken from the credits. If these stereotypes were so harmless, why would they do that?

I dont have a hard time seeing why the marines pulled their support. In any country without drafting the wrong impression can cause large groups of people to decline a military career. But then we are back at the same old "stupid people" debate once again. (maybe even mixed with an freedom of speech vs. for the good of the country/military/e.t.c. debate, to really heat things up ;))
Or even more interesting, a discussion about the way the military allow hollywood to make warmovies in order to lure/inspire young people to join the army. This may be getting further and further of topic, so feel free to PM me if you consider it so, i like the way "our" little debate is turning  :).
On a completely different note.
I really doubt it had any impact on the overall viewer that the marines asked to have their involvement stricken from the credits. When you see the invasion of grenada with the huge carrier, choppers, and armored vehicles, it seems pretty obvious that the U.S. forces Were really involved in this project.  

Your quotes from the marine web page sounds pretty interesting. it wasnt a thing i was familiar with, but i look forwards to check it out and learn some more about it. So far i´ve considered recon a "scouts section", a special branch of the marines, not a spec ops squad, but that seems like outdated information now.

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You found it obvious that the soldiers in Heartbreak Ridge were the "elite of the elite" of the U.S. Military? You knew that from watching the film, or because you have a military background? I'd find it hard to believe anyone would get that impression watching this film.

I think we got a slight communication problem starting here, my quote reads ;
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I didnt know it per see, but i found it pretty obvious. i think it´s the custom of every nation to offer soldiers from special branches (recon,divers, communications, etc.) in the backbone of their prime military forces a chance to make a career in their special forces, it sure is the custom over here.
and is an reference to IRL military standards, not the ones we see in heartbreak ridge (+ it seems flawed now, since recon apparently has been "upgraded" to spec ops).

My view on the recon marines in heartbreak ridge is as stated earlier :
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Even (before i served my country in 92) i could see with half an eye that the soldiers in heartbreak ridge isnt an actual portrayal of ANY army unit way back when i saw it the first time.
and
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I could point out a lot of strategic and military errors recon bumples through during the entire movie but eastwood didnt make the movie to give an actual portrayal of the marines. He did it to entertain us, tell us a story, and everyone is invited for the ride, be that people who dont know jack about military, or old "leathernecks"
I hope i´ve clarified things good enough.



   
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 18, 2004, 03:38:45 PM
I didnt think of documentaries when i wrote about heartbreak ridge. i was thinking about movies made for entertainment that takes place during historical events, not neccesarily accurate, but has some link to these past events through storyline, lines, or references. I used the three before mentioned movies (saving private ryan, outbreak, and windtalkers) as examples (because i´ve met people who thought that these movies were EXACT, ACTUAL events  :o  ::) )to stress my point.

Then it seems we're arguing two different points because by naming those movies you're showing how inaccurate the events in those movies are, although the films are BASED ON actual events. And once again, that's not my point. I don't have a problem with inaccurate events in this film or the ones you mentioned. If you want to argue the point that I'm making, argue it with films that would correlate with Heartbreak Ridge:  Where Eagles Dare (as you originally mentioned, and I gave my opinion on that already) or pick any number of old westerns that stereotyped Native Americans. Now we've got a correlation. These films show inaccurate and insulting portrayals of an army or of a race. The reason I don't see this as at all debatable is that I don't see why anyone should argue with a German who is offended at the portrayal of Germans in most WWII films or Native Americans at their portrayals in many films, or in this case with an American about the way the American military is portrayed in this film. If a film inaccurately and insultingly portrays or stereotypes a race or group of people, how can that be debated when someone is offended? Even if you don't feel the same way as I do about these portrayals, rather than try to find reasons for why I  shouldn't feel that way, or bring up "freedom of speech" and how it's just entertainment...  accept my disliking for this aspect of the film and move on. It's really not up for debate in my mind.

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I really doubt it had any impact on the overall viewer that the marines asked to have their involvement stricken from the credits.

No, I'm sure it didn't have an impact on most viewers... but I'm glad the Marines pulled their support. It makes a statement that they don't agree with the portrayals in the film, and I think they have a right to defend themselves in a case where they've been so inaccurately depicted. Since pulling their support is their way of defending their reputations, then I'm glad they did it. These men deserve respect... not to be portrayed this way.

My view on the recon marines in heartbreak ridge is as stated earlier :
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Even (before i served my country in 92) i could see with half an eye that the soldiers in heartbreak ridge isnt an actual portrayal of ANY army unit way back when i saw it the first time.
Quote
I could point out a lot of strategic and military errors recon bumples through during the entire movie but eastwood didnt make the movie to give an actual portrayal of the marines. He did it to entertain us, tell us a story, and everyone is invited for the ride, be that people who dont know jack about military, or old "leathernecks"

Just as I don't see why I should have to argue how I feel about these portrayals, I don't see any reason to argue how you feel. Enjoy it! And if I'm ever in a situation again where someone tells me how spoiled, disrespectful and lazy Americans are and uses Heartbreak Ridge to prove their point... that's when I'd feel a need to argue a viewpoint.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: mgk on May 18, 2004, 04:34:33 PM

Our little debate then spread into the discussion about europeans/americans views of the movie, and has ended (so far) in a general debate about the (vrong) impressions a movie could give, and the overall status of the recon units. Sure, this discussion might belong in the non clint section, or over PM,  but heartbreak ridge sparked it, and i´ve  found it quite enjoyable so far.  :D  

It HAS been enjoyable to read the viewpoints of everyone on the subject of how the Marines were portrayed in Heartbreak Ridge and it HAS been enjoyable to discuss the combination of comedy and drama in this particular movie.   If you would like to continue to discuss the military aspects of this film, we have a thread for that and it can be found here:

http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadid=2270

However, maybe we should get back to the original question in this particular thread which is:

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What is your overall feeling about this film? How would you rate it in comparison to the rest of Eastwood's films?

Some of us have compared it to other Eastwood films.  Ally thinks of The Bridges of Madison County when she watches Heartbreak Ridge and I do, too, to some degree.  Matt compares it to The Gauntlet in that he had to watch each of them several times in order to get past the unrealistic portions of the films to get down to the enjoyable things about each film.

If I were to rate this film in comparision to the rest of Eastwood's films, it would probably be a little bit below average.  In my opinion, it is not nearly as good as The Outlaw Josey Wales, Unforgiven, Dirty Harry, or Bronco Billy.  But, in my opinion, it is better than movies such as The Rookie, Pink Cadillac, City Heat, or Where Eagles Dare.

What about the rest of you?  Did you like this movie?  How would you rate it compared to other Eastwood films?
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Jed Cooper on May 19, 2004, 09:59:21 AM
When it comes to movies, my main concern is whether or not I am being entertained.  Very basic (and selfish!).  My thoughts on Heartbreak Ridge are two-fold because there's my initial reaction and how I feel about it today, years later.  When I first saw this movie I loved it.  I viewed it as a cool Eastwood action flick with plenty of good quotes and humor.  I was disappointed with Pale Rider, so this was a perfect rebound.  Nowadays, however, it's not one of my favorites but I'm sure I'll return to it sooner or later.  Unfortunately, a lot of Clint's 80s movies haven't aged well (Sudden Impact, for example); they just don't stand the test of time the way his spaghetti westerns and Dirty Harry do.  At least, that's my perception of his 80s output.  Still, there's some enjoyable moments here and I'd recommend it to those who've already seen his best and were curious about what other good movies of Clint's there are out there.    
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: dane with no name on May 19, 2004, 10:40:56 AM
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Then it seems we're arguing two different points because by naming those movies you're showing how inaccurate the events in those movies are, although the films are BASED ON actual events
So it seems.
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The reason I don't see this as at all debatable is that I don't see why anyone should argue with a German who is offended at the portrayal of Germans in most WWII films or Native Americans at their portrayals in many films, or in this case with an American about the way the American military is portrayed in this film. If a film inaccurately and insultingly portrays or stereotypes a race or group of people, how can that be debated when someone is offended?
It cant, i dont know if abovementioned quote is pointed at me, but i never challenged, or debated your opinion. I agreed that the portrayal was incorrect, and expressed my understanding on how some might find the portrayal offensive.
BTW, thanks for the quotes/links to the army web pages. It´s quite an interesting read.

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What about the rest of you?  Did you like this movie?  

It just makes my top ten eastwood favorits list. mainly due to the quite interesting highway character, the quotes, some scenes, and the closest supporting cast (bar stitch jones) had it been more gritty, realistic, and less humourous it could have made it as high as no. 6-7 on my favorit list (but thats as high as it could get)
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: howie on May 19, 2004, 01:23:12 PM
Well, I was disappointed with the movie from the begining because of the protrayal of the Marines.  I wasn't a Marine, but I was a SGT. in the Army, Special Forces, and I can tell you this much.  Those bumbling fools portrayed in this movie wouldn't have got a chance to join the training!  I'm certain the Marines would have the same criteria.  So, in watching the movie, I had to view it as a comedy.  I enjoyed it a lot more after doing that.  
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: AKA23 on May 19, 2004, 02:42:35 PM
I think it's pretty clear that Matt is not referring to inaccuracies of specific historical events but is referring to what he feels is an inaccurate characterization of the Recon marines. Those are two different things and I could see why somebody would have difficulties with coming to terms with the way that the marines were portrayed in the film. It certainly isn't accurate. However, at the same time, I personally feel that this is an overreaction. I don't think that a dislike of this aspect of the film has as much to do with whether or not you are an American or not but more your level of patriotism and identification with the policies of this country. I am an American and I don't have nearly as much of a problem with the portrayal of these marines as do Matt and MGK, and that's fine. Matt originally stated that he had difficulties with films that portrayed things that were not very realistic and couldn't actually happen. I think that criticism is rather faulty because many of Eastwood's films have portrayed things that are extremely unrealistic. Just for one example, Space Cowboys was incredibly unrealistic. The very idea that NASA would send four senior citizens up into space who hadn't worked in decades and had no training for such a complicated and important mission in that time frame is near impossible. The very idea that all four of these men at such an advanced age would be fit enough to embark upon this mission and would pass all the tests and be cleared to go, especially when one of the men had cancer, is not very realistic. This is just one example where realism didn't necessarily interfere with the enjoyment of a film. There are many other examples.

I readily admit to not being blindly patriotic and that probably does affect the judgment of this film. There are a lot of things that many of us would never see as plausible, like recent events with the Iraqi prisoner abuse, that has happened. Many were shocked that American soldiers could engage in such brutality and sexual humiliation, but it did happen. Perceived realism is not always the best barometer.

I don't think the characterization of marines in this film is representative of the entire military, and I never did. I find it amusing that our own film industry has stereotyped entire groups from almost every nation for years yet become incensed when one or two films portray our own people in a poor light. How many times have we seen Arabs in films portrayed as either idiots or religious fanatics hellbent on destruction? If you view our films, one could very easily come to conclusion that the majority of people of Arab descent are like this. This is clearly inaccurate and very people have voiced any outrage about it. How many times did we see Russians portrayed as crazy, one dimensional characters? How many films do we see Americans as the main perpetrators of violence? How many antagonistic characters are there that are American? For a long time and even today we disproportionately stereotype entire races through portraying them over and over and over again in such a negative light. Perhaps viewing films such as Heartbreak Ridge give us a taste of what they must feel over and over again.          
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 19, 2004, 03:46:52 PM
Well, AKA, I can't say that I enjoy stereotyped depictions of any race in any film. I've never been a fan of action films where you'd see a lot of this, and I think Where Eagles Dare is about the worst film Clint's ever done (just above Paint Your Wagon ;)). I wouldn't have the audacity to sit here and complain about this, while laughing it up at the German soldiers in that film. And as far as being "blindly patriotic", I certainly hope you're not aiming that comment at me or anyone else in this thread.

As far as my feelings about this film being an overreaction... I'm not sure you really know how I feel. Read my posts... I've said I like the film, but I don't like the depiction of the Marines. I said if I look past it, I can enjoy the film. But when you're asked to explain yourself about 10 different times as I've been with this, it may come across that I'm seething watching the film--that's not the case. I think this has been totally blown out of proportion because something that irritates me has been questioned and actually ridiculed by others here (no Dane, I'm not aiming that at you ;) ). But these portrayals do bother me and since I know firsthand that some people actually believe them (and why should it matter if whoever believes it doesn't know much about our military and has no military training? It gives the uneducated a very inaccurate and negative impression of our military -- and in effect, of our country) it bothers me more now than it would if no one ever commented to me about it.

Perceived realism is not always the best barometer.

Well, in this case, it IS entirely impossible for these men to be recon Marines. This isn't a perception of reality... this is a fact. If you have any doubts, look up the links I've provided in this thread and the other thread on the military aspects of this film. They list the requirements that need to be met to become a recon Marine--these men would never pass.

You're right that I do like films that seem real and that could happen. Of course, you neglected to add that I also said I didn't mind if the film is a comedy that is strictly for laughs.  Not that it has anything to do with this film discussion, but it sounds like you're assuming I really like Space Cowboys. It's not nearly one of my favorite Eastwood films... I'd rate it somewhere in the bottom half, right around the same level as this one.  

I do have a sense of humor, and can find humor in  Heartbreak Ridge. I just would have appreciated the film a lot more if they at least tried to show realistic portrayals of the Marines especially since it isn't a pure comedy.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: mgk on May 19, 2004, 03:55:51 PM
Matt originally stated that he had difficulties with films that portrayed things that were not very realistic and couldn't actually happen. I think that criticism is rather faulty because many of Eastwood's films have portrayed things that are extremely unrealistic. Just for one example, Space Cowboys was incredibly unrealistic. The very idea that NASA would send four senior citizens up into space who hadn't worked in decades and had no training for such a complicated and important mission in that time frame is near impossible. The very idea that all four of these men at such an advanced age would be fit enough to embark upon this mission and would pass all the tests and be cleared to go, especially when one of the men had cancer, is not very realistic. This is just one example where realism didn't necessarily interfere with the enjoyment of a film. There are many other examples.

The reasoning is not faulty, AKA.  For one thing, this is a film discussion on the movie Heartbreak Ridge; therefore, my reasoning was applied to this film only.  When we get around to discussing other Eastwood films, I will bring out things that I agree or disagree with at that time.  I don't need to mention any- and everything I like or dislike about ALL of Eastwood's films in a discussion of only one of his films.

I don't think the characterization of marines in this film is representative of the entire military, and I never did. I find it amusing that our own film industry has stereotyped entire groups from almost every nation for years yet become incensed when one or two films portray our own people in a poor light. How many times have we seen Arabs in films portrayed as either idiots or religious fanatics hellbent on destruction? If you view our films, one could very easily come to conclusion that the majority of people of Arab descent are like this. This is clearly inaccurate and very people have voiced any outrage about it. How many times did we see Russians portrayed as crazy, one dimensional characters? How many films do we see Americans as the main perpetrators of violence? How many antagonistic characters are there that are American? For a long time and even today we disproportionately stereotype entire races through portraying them over and over and over again in such a negative light. Perhaps viewing films such as Heartbreak Ridge give us a taste of what they must feel over and over again.          

Again, I'm not discussing ALL movies that have portrayed certain ethnic groups in a stereotypical way.  This is a film discussion on Heartbreak Ridge....not a discussion on ALL movies that have ever been made.  And, I don't find it amusing at all that these groups have been stereotyped.  If we were discussing movies in which people have been inaccurately portrayed, then I could bring up dozens.

As I suggested in my last post in this thread (p. 3), if you want to continue to discuss the military aspects of this film, please go to this thread.

http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadid=2270

As I also suggested in my last post (p. 3), we need to get back to the original question presented for discussion in this thread.  

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What is your overall feeling about this film? How would you rate it in comparison to the rest of Eastwood's films?

Can we do that now, please?
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 19, 2004, 05:13:37 PM
Well, I was disappointed with the movie from the begining because of the protrayal of the Marines.  I wasn't a Marine, but I was a SGT. in the Army, Special Forces, and I can tell you this much.  Those bumbling fools portrayed in this movie wouldn't have got a chance to join the training!  I'm certain the Marines would have the same criteria.  So, in watching the movie, I had to view it as a comedy.  I enjoyed it a lot more after doing that.  

This reaction is very much like mine. If I can get past those portrayals, I can enjoy the comedy and the film much more.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 19, 2004, 05:15:32 PM

As I also suggested in my last post (p. 3), we need to get back to the original question presented for discussion in this thread.  Can we do that now, please?

Yes ma'am. ;)

I think enough has been said on that particular point anyway. :)
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: AKA23 on May 19, 2004, 07:41:39 PM
In my case, I brought up the grossly inaccurate and at times offensive stereotypes because I was trying to point out that in some cases Americans tend to become very upset over stereotyping of Americans, which as I point out hardly ever happens in films, yet seem not to care or to not show a similar level of outrage when these outrageous stereotypes are being perpetuated repeatedly about other cultures. In my view, that is hypocritical. That was my main point and I wasn't necessarily referring to any particular person on this board who had expressed an opinion, just my general sense about the nature of stereotyping in this film and how it should be placed in context.

As far as my overall perception of the film, I think the most interesting aspects of the film are in the relationships created between the characters. The rekindling of a relationship that had been abandoned years earlier is interesting as is the developing respect of Eastwood towards the marines and of the marines towards him. There is an interesting evolution that happens at many different levels. The film also has some very humorous dialogue and has Eastwood playing a bit of a relic, an outlandish kind of character whose principles and practices as well as his language and stereotypical representations seem out of place in modern day society. We see it and yet many of us would react against it were we to observe it continuously if it was viewed as something done with serious intent, but in Gunny we take it for its humor and are able to distance ourselves yet identify with the character at the same time. That dichotomy speaks to the depth of the Gunny character and serves to dispel the notion that Gunny is a one note, one dimensional man. Not to become too pop psychology here, and I know that I may risk appearing too Dr. Philish here, but it's also quite possible, although it may sometimes go unnoticed in the viewer, that Gunny may appear this way because he at this time in the film may be a deeply insecure man who ridicules others in order to feel as if he is still worthy. This is a man who is uncertain about his role, uncertain about whether or not he still fits in this time, in this society, whether his ideas and his presence is still aproppriate or relevant in modern day society. This is a man who appears to not know where, or even if, he fits and who sees himself being replaced by younger people who are far less competent and able with a system that seems to be more concerned with political correctness than competence, training, and dealing with the real threats of the nation.    
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 19, 2004, 08:04:35 PM
In my case, I brought up the grossly inaccurate and at times offensive stereotypes because I was trying to point out that in most cases Americans tend to become very upset over stereotyping of Americans, which as I point out hardly ever happens in films, yet seem not to care or to not show a similar level of outrage when these outrageous stereotypes are being perpetuated repeatedly about other cultures. In my view, that is hypocritical. That was my main point and I wasn't necessarily referring to any particular person on this board who had expressed an opinion, just my general sense about the nature of stereotyping in this film and how it should be placed in context.

Do me a favor, AKA, don't tell us what "Americans" do. Now you're stereotyping as badly as anything any of us have complained about.  I've spoken for myself in this debate, mgk has spoken for herself, and everyone else has spoken for their own self. For you to come in here and try to say that "in most cases Americans....."  ::)  

Just speak for yourself.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: mgk on May 19, 2004, 08:19:02 PM
In my case, I brought up the grossly inaccurate and at times offensive stereotypes because I was trying to point out that in most cases Americans tend to become very upset over stereotyping of Americans, which as I point out hardly ever happens in films, yet seem not to care or to not show a similar level of outrage when these outrageous stereotypes are being perpetuated repeatedly about other cultures. In my view, that is hypocritical. That was my main point and I wasn't necessarily referring to any particular person on this board who had expressed an opinion, just my general sense about the nature of stereotyping in this film and how it should be placed in context.

That is the most insulting remark I have ever seen said about anyone on this board.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: AKA23 on May 19, 2004, 08:26:37 PM
I am NOT speaking about anyone on this board. I cannot claim to know how anybody on this board feels or doesn't feel about anything. That in itself would be hypocritical, and I'm not trying to do that. You guys wanted to move on from this topic. I agree. Any more conversation on this topic will not be productive. I've moved on. You guys should too. I'd like to continue this topic on the overall film. I welcome comment on the portion of my post about the film or on any of the other threads in the film discussion that I've commented on.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 19, 2004, 08:33:53 PM
I am NOT speaking about anyone on this board.

No, you're just speaking about Americans.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: mgk on May 19, 2004, 08:57:56 PM
Any more conversation on this topic will not be productive. I've moved on. You guys should too. I'd like to continue this topic on the overall film. I welcome comment on the portion of my post about the film or on any of the other threads in the film discussion that I've commented on.

You're moderating again, AKA.  You need to remember NOT to do that.  :-X
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 19, 2004, 09:09:37 PM
... Gunny may appear this way because he at this time in the film may be a deeply insecure man who ridicules others in order to feel as if he is still worthy.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to call Gunny "deeply insecure". He has fears and concerns about his future as well as the future of the Marines with the "new Corps", but I don't feel he "ridicules others in order to feel as if he is still worthy". The ridiculing he does in the film is done for a reason... to make men of the group of misfit soldiers he's in charge of shaping up. It has a purpose: to toughen them up, make them fighters... make them rise to the occassion... to make them want to prove they're not "losers" or "ladies". Training men to be soldiers takes more than physical conditioning, it takes mental conditioning. So I think what we're seeing is a training device, not a reaction of Gunny's feelings about himself.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: AKA23 on May 19, 2004, 11:06:49 PM
That's a good point, Matt. It is a training device. Would you say that the opinion that Gunny was insecure, perhaps not deeply insecure, but insecure, was just ridiculous or that it was just perhaps overstated? What about in his relationship with Aggie? The reading of the women's magazines and things like that? Does that reflect some kind of insecurity?
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 19, 2004, 11:18:19 PM
I just don't see Gunny as an insecure person. I feel that he recognized that he was a failure in his relationship with Aggie the first time around and he realizes that he still loves her and wants her in his life again. He knew if he was going to win her back that he needed to learn how to be good for her -- to learn what she needed so he could give it to her and win her back. He rather naively (you could say he's naive about women) reads the magazines thinking that's how he'll learn what Aggie needs. In the end... he learns by just listening to her.

So no, to answer your question... I don't think he's insecure. I think he recognizes he has some limitations and was working to overcome those.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: AKA23 on May 19, 2004, 11:56:00 PM
Perhaps I need to rewatch the film again. Maybe I've got this wrong, here. If only I had the time :) So, basically, you feel as if Gunny is secure in himself as a person, but he just uses tools that he finds to try to achieve his goals, as you say because he recognized his limitations. What about his role in the world post conflict? How do you think he is feeling about that? Would you say that he is comfortable with the thought of retiring and feels secure that he'll find something else? The thing about Gunny to me is that he doesn't come off as a very happy, satisfied person who is living the life that he has wanted for himself. It seems as if he wants more and he knows that there is more to life than what he is experiencing at this point in the film. It seems like he has a lot of frustration and regret. Perhaps nobody else sees this and I am just making this all up as I go along? Perhaps I just need to rewatch the film before participating in these discussions? ;)
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 20, 2004, 04:42:49 AM
I do feel that Gunny is overall quite secure in himself as a person, but I also believe he felt uncertain of what the future held for him and the Corps and that he was afraid of where he and they were headed in these changing times. A person can be confident in himself, but still have fears. If Gunny was truly insecure, would he have the courage to face his failures with Aggie, try to learn what he did wrong, try to become what she needed so that he could have a second chance with her? I'd think an insecure person would not have that courage--I think they'd be more apt to give up and live alone rather than face that huge challenge.

I think Gunny is rather unhappy and dissatisfied with his life because of those uncertainties, but I think at the end of the film, we see resolution to it. In Grenada, Gunny saw his men put to the test and they passed. He was able to retire knowing he had been successful in preparing the "new Corps" for war or whatever other challenges they would face. And he was also retiring a success in another way: he wasn't  0-1-1 anymore.  We also see a resolution in his fear of what he'd do without the Corps. He knew he wanted to be with Aggie, and when she was waiting for him upon his return to the base, he knew his future was going to be okay.

I made this screen capture of Gunny meeting Aggie at his return back to the base to use as my avatar and I wanted a quote to go under it that would fit the expression. What quote, I asked myself, from the movie would fit? He doesn't say anything in that scene... but the scene says a lot. I thought of various quotes from the movie and remembered one that Gunny said when he was returning to Recon... he was going back where he belonged. It hit me that this is exactly what he's thinking in this scene. He's back where he belongs--with Aggie. And I believe that he feels that the future is going to be okay after all.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: AKA23 on May 20, 2004, 10:53:30 AM
I like your take on Gunny and the situations that unfold in the film. Where I may have seen insecurity you merely see temporary uncertainty that resolves itself by the end of the film. That's an optimistic outlook that depending on your interpretation I think does fit the overall tone of the film very well. It's almost, again, like Dirty Harry says in that Gunny seems to know his limitations but in knowing them, he seems resolved to work on them. Perhaps this resolve could possibly be a result of his recognition that the corps is no longer going to be his life. Perhaps before he simply might not have had the awareness, or more likely, the time to focus on these other issues but not being consumed by the military career anymore, he now has time to think about and resolve these things that he had previously allowed to fade into the background. Perhaps it is this resolve, this unwillingness to let their relationship fade into the background that may end up saving their relationship together.  
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on May 20, 2004, 03:36:20 PM
Yup, AKA, that's how I see things.  We see Gunny in this film at a crossroads (Highway) in his life, set on the Ridge of Heartbreak (double entendre with the film title).  He didn't know what would happen in the future, if the Corps would be okay without him... if he'd be okay without them. In the end, I think we see they're all going to be just fine.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Brendan on May 21, 2004, 07:12:58 PM
I just want to say that at the time this movie was made, the Police Academy movies were a hit. So the whole dealing with bumbling trainees was popular, so perhaps, the studio, or a producer or even the script writer though it might funny or wise to try and capatilize on that. I know that may not be what some want hear, but it's just a though. Both deal with similar things, aside from one, yes, is a full out "comedy" whilst the other deals with more pressing issues.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: FallenHero on May 22, 2004, 01:16:22 PM
I try to like this film, I really do, but it doesn't work for me. The main character somehow doesn't gel and make me believe in him.  
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Clintus on June 02, 2004, 06:47:09 AM
What is your overall feeling about this film? How would you rate it in comparison to the rest of Eastwood's films?  

My feeling is there have been an awful lot of really good quality war films out there, including Saving Private Ryan, and Heartbreak Ridge is, I'm afraid a fairly bog-standard movie...........not of one Clint's best.
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Chessie on June 06, 2004, 12:49:56 AM
I actually just watched the film tonite...  I was a little disappointed, the story was just so lame, but Clint was great, its always fun to watch him beat up someone  :)  I don't know how to feel about the movie, I can't stand movies with bad plots, it drives me nuts, but I do really like movies that have strong lead characters...  So I guess the film over all was bad but Clint was good...  I dont think the film over all was his best work...  It's also not his best character but it's better some of the others he's done...
Title: Re:HEARTBREAK RIDGE: Audience Reaction 1: Your Overall Feeling
Post by: Matt on September 27, 2004, 07:01:46 PM
Thanks to everyone for participating in this discussion. This topic is now closed, please post any additional thoughts in the General Discussion forum.