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Author Topic: Eastwood Movie Challenge Week Four: Paint Your Wagon  (Read 14186 times)
Christopher
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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2016, 12:53:57 PM »

Oh no, we're about to get 15 posts from Christopher about how great all these songs are!   :idiot2:  ;)
:tickedoff:

 :2funny:  Haha, actually I'll save that for the movie night. ;)
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Matt
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2016, 12:55:17 PM »

A couple of weeks ago, I did watch 2/3rds of Paint Your Wagon so I could figure out how to do the Drinking Game. I'm going to admit that it was more fun that I remembered it being. Maybe because my expectations were SO LOW this time around.

I didn't mind watching it at all, but it's not one I'd put on again if not for this board and our discussions. It's fine once or twice.
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Matt
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2016, 12:56:53 PM »

:tickedoff:

 :2funny:  Haha, actually I'll save that for the movie night. ;)

 O0  I'm going to buy some of SK's recommended Australian beer for this one. I don't drink beer that often anymore, but the hard stuff is too strong for a movie with this many drinking cues. I am guessing I'm going to be posting a LOT in that thread, and since I'm a happy drunk, I'll probably love the movie and songs.  ;D
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Christopher
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2016, 04:47:32 PM »

I just clicked on the link at the top of the main page where it's been set up to take you to the Amazon page for Paint Your Wagon... and have you noticed the overwhelming positive reviews it has on there?!
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Matt
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2016, 06:59:21 PM »

Christopher, you've outdone yourself! Where'd you find the time to set up 1,000 Amazon accounts just to get this to being a 4.5 star movie?

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Matt
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« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2016, 08:12:15 PM »

I guess talking about the movie might be a good idea at some point in this thread!

Since Christopher pointed me over to his 1,000+ reviews for it on Amazon, I noticed this critical review (obviously someone other than Christopher):

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ByOld Hippyon February 8, 2004

No name city was built in the Wallawa Mts. outside Baker City, Oregon, and a call went out for "longhairs" to act as extras. Hippies were big on authentic Western costume and could supply their own wardrobe right down to the guns (yes, these hippies were armed to the teeth). They came with wives, kids, big dogs and bigger trucks and settled in for the summer, fall, winter, spring, and...I believe...a second summer. Everything you see in this movie is REAL...the poker game in the background, the French whores (imported from Paris, and yes, they plied their trade on the set and in hotels in Baker), the antiques, the long hair and handlebar moustaches. The opium den and bootleg liquor. All real and functioning. After the filming, there was a showing in Portland of the rough movie for the extras, and it was heartbreakingly beautiful. The Norman Luboff choir was not yet dubbed in and the music WAS the extras singing, and we got to hear Jean Seburg sing her part, and the SCALE of it was monumental....you really got the feeling of this tiny place lost in the Westerm wilderness. It was wonderful...makes me angry/sad to see the finished movie as cut in LA...the studio did their best to turn it into a routine and banal Broadway musical. Wish you fans could have seen it as I did in 1969.

I thought that was interesting, and something we wouldn't find in books.
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Matt
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« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2016, 08:47:48 PM »

I was looking on the IMDb Trivia page for information about why Lee Marvin (or Clint for that matter) were interested in this project. This might have had something to do with it:

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Lee Marvin was set to star in The Wild Bunch (1969), a project that he helped put together with stuntman Roy N. Sickner, when Paramount offered him $1 million plus a percentage to star in this picture.

Also interested were these points, which made me wonder what Clint was thinking on the set, after just having gone through something similar with Richard Burton with Where Eagles Dare:

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Lee Marvin (Ben Rumson) drank real alcohol throughout the production, even though the director fought him about it. In most pictures the actors drink tea for whiskey and water for vodka. Marvin would only work if he got real liquor.

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Lee Marvin was apparently drunk nearly every day of filming.

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Matt
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« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2016, 09:44:33 PM »

Now that I think about it, I might be tempted to get drunk every day if I turned down starring in The Wild Bunch for Paint Your Wagon.
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Jed Cooper
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« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2016, 07:16:57 AM »



I remember familiar faces William O'Connell and John Mitchum being in this movie. For the first time, I recognized Paula Trueman, who'd appeared with O'Connell in The Outlaw Josey Wales. I was surprised to see Roy Jenson's name in the credits who, with O'Connell, also appeared in the "Which Way" films. I was even more surprised to see Harve Presnell's name, who'd gone on to appear in Flags Of Our Fathers.

Wow. What an incredibly bad film. I watched this with a friend and we both noted that it might not have been so bad had it not been for the songs. Marvin and Eastwood should've had their singing overdubbed by Sinatra and Presley. At least that would've made the musical segments tolerable. To me, this is the worst film Eastwood has ever starred in. I don't plan on wasting time viewing it ever again. It's unfortunate this turned out to be the only pairing of Clint with Lee Marvin. It would've been great to see them in a traditional western together.
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Christopher
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« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2016, 07:22:43 AM »

I've wondered if Clint has ever said anything about working on Paint Your Wagon or Lee Marvin. It is interesting, too, that he played another co-starring role right after Where Eagles Dare.

I'd never heard that before about turning down The Wild Bunch and doing this one instead. So would it have been William Holden's part?

Marvin and Eastwood should've had their singing overdubbed by Sinatra and Presley. At least that would've made the musical segments tolerable.
I've never minded their singing in this, especially Lee Marvin's. I think his singing voice fits his character. I haven't finished the movie yet, but Eastwood has some decent singing moments. The "Gold Fever" song is probably his best, but that's in the last part of the movie (I watched it unitl the intermission). I prefer his singing in Honkytonk Man.
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KC
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« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2016, 07:54:57 AM »

Marvin and Eastwood should've had their singing overdubbed by Sinatra and Presley.

Thanks for putting your finger on the one thing that could have made it worse!   :tickedoff:
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Jed Cooper
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« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2016, 07:56:03 AM »

Thanks for putting your finger on the one thing that could have made it worse!   :tickedoff:

Unfortunately, their singing is what tanked it for me.  In my opinion, having two of history's greatest, most legendary voices added to the soundtrack would've lent credibility to this project.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 07:58:02 AM by Jed (Brian) Cooper » Logged

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Jed Cooper
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« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2016, 07:56:34 AM »

I've wondered if Clint has ever said anything about working on Paint Your Wagon or Lee Marvin. It is interesting, too, that he played another co-starring role right after Where Eagles Dare.

I'd never heard that before about turning down The Wild Bunch and doing this one instead. So would it have been William Holden's part?
I've never minded their singing in this, especially Lee Marvin's. I think his singing voice fits his character. I haven't finished the movie yet, but Eastwood has some decent singing moments. The "Gold Fever" song is probably his best, but that's in the last part of the movie (I watched it unitl the intermission). I prefer his singing in Honkytonk Man.

I remember the first time I saw Eastwood singing in Honkytonk Man.  I laughed.  Well, what can you expect when you're just not used to seeing an image such as that?!  Over time, I came to enjoy the movie and as far as his singing goes in that movie, it definitely fits.  To me, the major problem with Paint Your Wagon is that it was seriously miscast.  Marvin & Eastwood in singing roles?!  That’s like casting John Wayne as an Avon sales representative!  I just don’t think they pulled it off.  The only way I would consider watching this movie again is if it were stripped of all the musical numbers.  As for the comedic aspect of it, Marvin was definitely animated and a little humorous and Eastwood was okay as the straight man but Martin & Lewis had done it before and much better.   
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Christopher
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« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2016, 08:01:04 AM »

Harve Presnell was certainly a good singer. And I just realized from one of the youtube comments who he is from some later roles!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByqYEzugleE

And I know there's a way to imbed videos now, but I'll have to read up in the thread about how to do that.
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Matt
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« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2016, 08:48:56 AM »

Unfortunately, their singing is what tanked it for me.  In my opinion, having two of history's greatest, most legendary voices added to the soundtrack would've lent credibility to this project.

Okay, you know I don't want to take this much further, but in my opinion, having a famous voice like Sinatra coming out of Lee Marvin, or Presley's unmistakable voice coming out of Eastwood's mouth would have been even worse, and it would be nonredeemable, embarrassing, and I wonder if Clint's career could have even recovered the humiliation of it. It would so obviously be dubbed, and very much an insult to Eastwood and his own fans.

Plus, as Christopher wrote, it kinda fits that these woodsmen weren't the greatest of singers. And that Amazon review I posted above gives us the idea of what the film might have been like if it was more honest with the vocals of all the singers, including the extras. Maybe it would have served well. I don't think having Elizabeth dubbed was all that important in a film with Lee Marvin using his own voice. I'd much rather hear Jean Seberg, no matter what she sounded like.
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Matt
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« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2016, 08:51:40 AM »

  To me, the major problem with Paint Your Wagon is that it was seriously miscast.  Marvin & Eastwood in singing roles?!  That’s like casting John Wayne as an Avon sales representative!

That I agree with, and I've always wondered why they even wanted to be in it, which is why I was looking that up. I might even break out some of my Eastwood books and see if I can find anything.

If the IMDb trivia I posted above is correct, Marvin did it for the great payout. A million plus a percentage back in 1969 was pretty serious dough.
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Matt
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« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2016, 08:53:37 AM »

Harve Presnell was certainly a good singer.

According to that IMDb trivia page, he was the only professional singer that was cast! Christopher does have a good ear, after all!  ;)
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Jed Cooper
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« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2016, 09:01:04 AM »

Okay, you know I don't want to take this much further, but in my opinion, having a famous voice like Sinatra coming out of Lee Marvin, or Presley's unmistakable voice coming out of Eastwood's mouth would have been even worse, and it would be nonredeemable, embarrassing, and I wonder if Clint's career could have even recovered the humiliation of it. It would so obviously be dubbed, and very much an insult to Eastwood and his own fans.

Plus, as Christopher wrote, it kinda fits that these woodsmen weren't the greatest of singers. And that Amazon review I posted above gives us the idea of what the film might have been like if it was more honest with the vocals of all the singers, including the extras. Maybe it would have served well. I don't think having Elizabeth dubbed was all that important in a film with Lee Marvin using his own voice. I'd much rather hear Jean Seberg, no matter what she sounded like.


The point wasn't necessarily to have their voices overdubbed by those two singers, rather, to have them overdubbed period.  Again, that's just my opinion.  By the time Paint Your Wagon came along, Eastwood was on a role.  His tough guy persona was established with four westerns, a police drama and a war movie.  Everybody strikes out once in a while, it’s the name of the game.  It would be a couple of years before he bounced back with greatness once again in the form of Dirty Harry.  Paint Your Wagon was just a bad step along the way.
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Matt
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« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2016, 09:14:02 AM »

When I watch Paint Your Wagon, I almost feel like he was a little lost about what he was aiming for with his career. As noted above, he was, again, playing a side-kick. His film choices seem almost a little TOO spread out -- what was he really looking to do with his career? I guess Paint Your Wagon was going to be another big production, like Where Eagles Dare, and maybe Clint thought these big films would lift him out of the obscurity of the smaller projects he'd been doing. And I wonder if being a television actor was still something he was trying to overcome.

You know, it's all uphill after this movie, for Clint and for our Challenge.  O0
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Christopher
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« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2016, 10:10:17 AM »

By the way, what is the actual name of the song Presnell sings in that video I posted? They have it listed on the video as "They Call the Wind Maria," though it sounds like Mariah in the movie. Perhaps that's just the pronunciation. I've read before that Mariah Carey was named after that song.
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