News: Having trouble registering?  Please feel free to contact us at help[at]clinteastwood.org.  We will help you get an account set up.


0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this board.
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Eastwood Movie Challenge Week Four: Paint Your Wagon  (Read 14192 times)
Matt
Global Moderator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14885



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2016, 10:10:53 AM »

That's the correct spelling "Maria", and it is pronounced "Mariah".
Logged
Elizabeth77
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1298



View Profile Email
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2016, 11:21:25 AM »

That's the correct spelling "Maria", and it is pronounced "Mariah".

Quote
Mariah is an English given name, a variant on the names Maria and Mary. Mariah is usually pronounced "mə-RIE-ə", which reflects the older English pronunciation of Maria.  The meaning and origin of Mariah is unknown as the meaning for Mary is obscured, but popular theories suggest "wished for child" and "rebelliousness."  The name was further popularized in the 1990s by the singer Mariah Carey. The name Mariah appeared as early as 1550 in Great Britain.
So says Wikipedia.

I guess I don't see Paint Your Wagon as being as bad as some of you think, but I think the story line would have been better served if it were just a story, not a musical.  It would even be okay to have the actors sing, as their voices are just fine.  However, the film could have been shorted to a bearable length if it didn't have all those musical numbers.  I happen to like Lee Marvin's gravelly voice.  :)
Logged

"Thought I was having trouble with my adding.  It's all right now."
Jed Cooper
Classic Member
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5234



View Profile Email
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2016, 11:41:00 AM »

A little more from Wikipedia:

Quote
The song was featured in the 1969 Hollywood film Paint Your Wagon, starring Lee Marvin, Clint Eastwood and Jean Seberg. In the film, the song was performed by Harve Presnell. The New York Times said that Presnell's role in the film "delivered the golden opportunity to sing the unforgettable ballad." Theater writer Thomas Hischak said that "in one of the film's few pleasing moments, Harve Presnell gave full voice to 'They Call the Wind Maria' and it was lovely to hear". Referring to Eastwood and Marvin, film reviewer Brian W. Fairbanks wrote that "Harve Presnell steals both stars' thunder with a knockout version of the best song."

In a promotional tie-in with release of the film, recorded versions of the song were issued by seven singers and groups, including Presnell, Ed Ames, Burl Ives, Jim Nabors and the Baja Marimba Band. Several record labels participated.

Quote
Background and pronunciation of "Maria" In George Rippey Stewart's 1941 novel Storm, he gives the storm which is the protagonist of his story the name "Maria". In 1947, Stewart wrote a new introduction for a reprint of the book, and discussed the pronunciation of "Maria": "The soft Spanish pronunciation is fine for some heroines, but our Maria here is too big for any man to embrace and much too boisterous." He went on to say, "So put the accent on the second syllable, and pronounce it 'rye'".

The success of Stewart's novel was one factor that motivated U.S. military meteorologists to start the informal practice of giving women's names to storms in the Pacific during World War II. The practice became official in 1945. In 1953, a similar system of using women's names was adopted for North Atlantic storms. This continued until 1979, when men's names were incorporated into the system. Although Stewart's novel is set in 1935, the novel and its impact on meteorology later inspired Lerner and Lowe to write a song for their play about the California gold rush, and like Stewart, they too gave a wind storm the name Maria, which is pronounced /məˈraɪ.ə/. The lines throughout the song end in feminine rhymes mostly using the "long i" sound /aɪ/, echoing the stress pattern and vowel sound of the name Maria.

Singer Mariah Carey was named after this song.



source:  They Call the Wind Maria
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 11:46:26 AM by Jed (Brian) Cooper » Logged

“Eyuh.”
Matt
Global Moderator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14885



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2016, 01:01:03 PM »

I pulled out my Richard Schickel book Clint Eastwood (pg 202), and found some notable information about Paint Your Wagon. The first answers my question about why Clint would want to do this project. It was about money and establishing his status in Hollywood.

Quote
     he has always been a man with his own agenda, and at this moment it did not revolve around reviews. Nor was the question of establishing the full dimensions of his screen personality uppermost in his mind or in the minds of his advisers. They were all more intent on reinforcing the foundations of a career the full scope and solidity of which was not yet clear.
     This means, frankly, that they were, for the moment, more interested in money -- which is how Hollywood determines statuses--than they were in critical prestige. A little more than a month after finishing Coogan's Bluff (and months before either it or Hang 'em High was released) he was off to Europe to make Where Eagles Dare (reported salary $500,000), after which he was scheduled to start Paint Your Wagon (reported salary $600,000). Sooner than expected he was approaching the $750,000 fee David Picker had predicted for him. More important, these big, mainstream pictures would, whatever their modest intrinsic merits, force people to stop seeing him as a curiosity, begin to see him for what he wanted and needed to be, a major industry player.
Logged
Jed Cooper
Classic Member
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5234



View Profile Email
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2016, 02:47:15 PM »

I was curious to see what a popular movie critic had to say about this movie...

Quote
The fact is, "Paint Your Wagon" doesn't inspire a review. It doesn't even inspire a put-down. It just lies there in my mind -- a big, heavy lump. But in the midst of it, like a visitor from another movie, Lee Marvin desperately labors to inject some flash and sparkle. And he succeeds in bringing whole scenes to life. A good actor can do this, but it's a waste when he must.

The problem was money. It always is in these inflated big-budget musicals. "Paint Your Wagon" cost around $18,000,000, and there is probably no way to spend that much money on a musical and retain any degree of intimacy and feeling. The logistics forbid it. You just can't get all those production values (the scenery, the sets, the cast of thousands) onto one movie screen and still operate on a scale suitable to your human characters.

And so Lee Marvin comes whooping into town with a wagonload of kidnapped French Prostitutes, and he steers the wagon right down the middle of the river, and hundreds of miners holler and race about, and what we're worried about is whether anybody got hurt in the confusion. And then the wagon stops and the chippies get off -- and it's supposed to be a gag that they're soaking wet and covered with mud. But the scale of the scene is such that by the time it was set up and the camera was finally running, the girls were dry.

The curse of overproduction even destroys the small, private scenes. Clint Eastwood wanders through the forest, singing (or, more accurately, whining) "I Talk to the Trees." And suddenly there's what sounds like the Red Army Chorus, booming in the background.

The result is loud and officially stereophonic, all right. But it's studio music -- cold, aloof, manufactured. There's no feeling that this might be a guy in the forest, singing a song. The enormous male chorus and the umpteen-piece orchestra were expensive as hell -- but Godard got more humor and charm out of Anna Karina and a piano in "Pierrot le Fou."

"Paint Your Wagon" is the first big-budget musical to get an 'M' rating rather than the customary 'G.' This is presumably because of the French chippies and the occasional "hell" and "damn," and especially because the plot involves a three-way marriage between (among?) Marvin, Eastwood and Jean Seberg. So OK, maybe it was time to break away from the sloppy sentimentality of most musicals. But "Paint Your Wagon" doesn't.

Most of the time, it's simultaneously suggestive and puritanical -- so we snicker but we don't laugh. A ménage à trois in a family musical is as offensive as the adultery, frigidity and homosexuality implied (ever so "tastefully") in "Star!" Only once in "Paint Your Wagon" can we let loose with a healthy, bawdy laugh. Lee Marvin, initiating a farm boy into the joys of amour, hands him over to a whore with the deadpan line: "Grace, I give you the boy. Give me back the man."

It isn't the line so much as Marvin saying it, and his delivery saves many another line but can't save the movie. He even saves his songs. Eastwood and Jean Seberg can't sing, and neither can Marvin. But Marvin can act, and he brazenly acts his way through songs, almost fooling us. And for that ability we are grateful, during our long ordeal.

Agreed.

Source:  RogerEbert.com
Logged

“Eyuh.”
Matt
Global Moderator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14885



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2016, 03:10:33 PM »

Wow, Ebert was a bit harsh. But, as much as I agree with Ebert most of the time, everyone's opinions can be different. He seems to think Marvin was the better of the two, and I definitely don't agree with that, especially this:

Quote
He even saves his songs. Eastwood and Jean Seberg can't sing, and neither can Marvin. But Marvin can act, and he brazenly acts his way through songs, almost fooling us. And for that ability we are grateful, during our long ordeal.

Wow. I thought Marvin was 10x worse than Clint with the singing and the eye-rolling. He was dreadful.  And Jean Seberg didn't even sing her parts.  ???
Logged
Christopher
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6863



View Profile Email
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2016, 07:17:42 PM »

I finished the movie tonight. I still find it a fun movie. This is maybe only the third time I've seen it, so I'm not nearly as big of a fan of it as I've been teased about over the years.
Logged
Matt
Global Moderator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14885



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2016, 07:51:41 PM »

Here's some more interesting bits from Schickel's book that goes into a lot more detail about how Clint wound up involved in this project. This is a bit lengthy, but it's good reading.  (Pg 213-215)

Quote
He had been drawn to the project for two reasons: because it offered him a chance to sing and because he liked the first script he was shown. Musically, he would not encounter serious problems. Lerner had at first thought Clint might have to talk his song, as Rex Harrison had in My Fair Lady, but then he listened to some of his old records and had a session at the piano with him, where Clint handled the Paint Your Wagon melodies well enough. He knew, of course, that he didn't have a big musical-comedy tone, but thought, I'll try to sing what the character is, not try to come out with a booming voice, which he felt works better anyway on-screen. It had always worked for Fred Astaire, hadn't it?

     The screenplay, on the other hand, turned into a growing issue. ... Chayefsky [the screenwriter] ... produced something that attracted not only Clint, but Lee Marvin, then regarded as an even more bankable star.

     Chayefsky's work bore no resemblance to the book Lerner had written for the 1951 Broadway production, which recounted the adventures of a widower and his daughter searching for new lives, new wealth (and in her case a new love) in a California mining camp during the Gold Rush era.  The playwright retained the setting of the original show, and found a place for most of its songs (plus some new ones that Lerner wrote with Andre Previn) but threw out everything else. His was a story about the creation of a frontier ménages à trois involving an old miner, Ben Rumson (Lee Marvin); his friend, known only as Pardner (Clint); and a young woman named Elizabeth (in which role, after much dithering, Jean Seberg was cast). No-Name City, the site where this non-action takes place, eventually, literally, collapses as a result of rampant greed (Ben and some friends secretly tunnel under the town searching for gold, weakening its foundations).

     "Not an up story at all, kind of a moody piece, very dark," is the way Clint characterized it. Indeed, in the first draft he read, Marvin's character actually died at the end. "I'd never seen a musical with this kind of a story line before," he says,. and he remembers thinking., This is very bold -- maybe these guys are on to something." ... What he seems to have seen here was something like the Fistful of Dollars scenario. If the western had then seemed tired, the movie musical, despite its recent commercial success, now seemed positively moribund, the glory days of the first postwar decade, when Hollywood was making originals like Singin' in the Rain long gone. It was therefore reasonable for him to think, based on what he had read initially, that this project might revitalize this form as the Leone pictures had the western.

     This was perhaps naive of him, but not totally so. The deal memo he signed before going off to make Where Eagles Dare prudently provided an escape clause; if he did not approve of Paint Your Wagon's final shooting script he could leave the project. As his work in Europe dragged along, Clint spared an occasional thought for this revision, and finally he called Hirshan to inquire after it...

     "I get this thing, and I start reading it, and it's now totally different. It has no relation to the original, except the names of the characters. They had the threesome deal, but it wasn't a dark story at all. It was all fluffy. Fluffy, and running around talking, and they're having Lee do Cat Ballou II." This accords with Chayefsky's recollection that no more than six pages of his work remained in Lerner's version. So Clint called Hirshan immediately and said, "This has really gone haywire. Just get me out of this. Get me totally, completely out of this."

     That was not easy to do. People had committed to Paint Your Wagon because  Clint had. "The next thing you know, here comes Lerner and Logan," flying into London to argue that musicals have to be upbeat , cheery. That's what audiences expected. "Yeah, but it was so interesting," said Clint, making a hopeless plea for a return to the first draft.

     They, of course, misunderstood him. They thought he was signaling disappointment at the size of his role in the new script. They assured him that they were willing to do still more rewriting in order to "make your character more important," which, apparently, they did in the next draft.

     But that was not at all the message Clint was trying to send: "I'm trying to explain to everybody that I don't need a big part. Bigness isn't bestness; sometimes lessness is bestness."

     The next revision was, he thought, "somewhat better." But it was "still 180 degrees from where we started."  His impulse to pass was still large. But his agency and the studio were pressuring him to sign the contract. A green light had been flashed; the vehicle was moving; people were counting on him. Implicit in this argument was another one: You don't want to become known around town as difficult, and you especially don't want to discommode a major studio. And because there was a romance in his part, it remained a good career move, something that might ingratiate him with an audience that had not yet seen him. So he gave in: I'm taking it on as sort of a Rawhide deal: How can I make this interesting, if at all?"...

     What the huge company went off to shoot in the summer of 1968 at an eventual cost of some $20 million (more than anyone had ever spent on a musical) was neither the revisionist film he wanted to make nor the lighthearted entertainment everyone else wanted to do. The movie they eventually made veered constantly, hopelessly, from one tack to the other; what humor and romance it offered was dour, and its other aspirations were so vaguely stated as to be indefinable.

There's a few pages here that goes into the multitudes of production problems, an inexperienced director who left the production "a ship, literally, with no captain on the deck", as Clint described it. It also goes into detail of Lee Marvin's alcoholism and difficulties on the set due to lack of discipline and incompetence. Logan, the director was almost replaced, and a ballooning budget, creating an entirely unmanageable, and chaotic filming experience.

Schickel continues (p221)

Quote
But in another way, Paint Your Wagon did have a major, and continuing, effect on Clint's career. As the muddle persisted right up to the very last days on location, he firmly resolved never again to place himself in such circumstances. "That's when I came to the conclusion, after the fifth month, that I was going to be really active with Malpaso. I was going to go back to doing just regular movies."

     That is to say, relatively small-scale films employing good, but not necessarily big-name actors, and certainly none that carried with them any explosive personal baggage. By this he also meant that he would direct at least some of those films himself. As he put it on one public occasion, "If I'm going to make mistakes in my career, I want to make them, I don't want somebody else making them for me." Or, as he put it a little more colorfully later on, "if these guys can blow this kind of dough and nobody cares about it, why not take a shot at it, and at least if I screw up I can say, well, OK, I screwed up, and take the blame on it." This realization, and this resolution, constituted for Clint "a turning point in my career."
Logged
Matt
Global Moderator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14885



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2016, 07:59:07 PM »

I finished the movie tonight. I still find it a fun movie. This is maybe only the third time I've seen it, so I'm not nearly as big of a fan of it as I've been teased about over the years.

So, do you still think you can watch it again on Sunday?  :knuppel2:
Logged
Jed Cooper
Classic Member
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5234



View Profile Email
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2016, 06:49:38 AM »

Wow, Ebert was a bit harsh. But, as much as I agree with Ebert most of the time, everyone's opinions can be different. He seems to think Marvin was the better of the two, and I definitely don't agree with that, especially this:

Wow. I thought Marvin was 10x worse than Clint with the singing and the eye-rolling. He was dreadful.  And Jean Seberg didn't even sing her parts.  ???

I can understand Ebert's criticism.  While Eastwood may have a smoother sounding voice, there's just no personality to it.  That's why the delivery came across as flat and unconvincing.  Marvin's delivery was more animated, which fit his character.  I'm sure the soundtrack didn't wear out anybody's record player needle.
Logged

“Eyuh.”
Matt
Global Moderator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14885



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2016, 04:33:31 PM »

Who else is planning on watching this one live with us for Paint Your Wagon Drinking Game Movie Night?  We're only four days out.

So far, we've got me, KC, Christopher, Charlie, Shannon, Elizabeth and Satu planning on being there.

Anyone else?
Logged
-satu-
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1719



View Profile Email
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2016, 11:27:06 PM »

I've never actually seen this before. It was hard to find the dvd even now when I really started looking.

I hope I can keep up with you during the movie night.  ::)
Logged

Could anyone else have seen the beauty of it?
higashimori
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4233



View Profile Email
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2016, 11:40:08 PM »


 I'll watch tonight " Paint Your Wagon " but I'll probably only listen to songs while doing other things because I watched it not long ago...... :)
Logged

" They just don't make then like this anymore ."      " I just don't meet then like him anymore !! "
Doug
Classic Member
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2940


"May I make a suggestion..."


View Profile Email
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2016, 06:08:48 AM »

Who else is planning on watching this one live with us for Paint Your Wagon Drinking Game Movie Night?  We're only four days out.

So far, we've got me, KC, Christopher, Charlie, Shannon, Elizabeth and Satu planning on being there.

Anyone else?

I can't.  :( I've never done a movie night, as the timing has never worked out. I'm going to try to watch it Saturday. I was looking for my comments on it here from when I first watched it, but I can't seem to find the post. No loss. I remember the movie being quite the chore, but watching it with others and making a drinking game of it should make it fun.
Logged

"Yes, well, when I see five weirdos dressed in togas stabbing a guy in the middle of a park in full view of a hundred people, I shoot the bastards, that's my policy."  Frank Drebin, Police Squad.
Matt
Global Moderator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14885



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2016, 10:10:07 AM »

We're going to want to do at least one more of the movies as a movie night, so hopefully we can find a time and day that would work better for the next one. Sorry you can't join us, Doug, that would have been awesome if you could have.

I think I'm the only one who will be drinking.  :-\

Logged
KC
Administrator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 32408


Control ...


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2016, 10:18:44 AM »

Matt drunk and the rest of us sober! :D
Logged
Matt
Global Moderator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14885



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2016, 10:26:41 AM »

And watching a movie about a ménage à trois! It do present mind-boggling possibilities.  ^-^  ;D
Logged
Matt
Global Moderator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14885



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2016, 09:14:08 PM »

Logged
higashimori
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4233



View Profile Email
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2016, 11:42:07 PM »


So I watched '' Paint Your Wagon '' last night!  :)

In this film, Clint was very tender and very decent guy with no beard, no cigar, no beers, no poncho, no trench coat and more he wears a big farmer's hat!    Nice guy!!  :D

I wonder that when Ben's first sees Elizabeth, she has nursing a baby but after they get married, the baby disappears. ??? Was it explained somewhere what happened with her baby?

Also I wonder that in the scene where the coach arrives with the French(?) entertainment specialists,with prostitutes( I imagine....), why the Chinese musicians played "La Marseillaise"!??

At farewell, Ben said to Pardner that he never knew his real name which Pardner then reveals '' Sylvester Newel'' !

I hope that everybody who participates the movie night have fun and enjoy '' Paint Your Wagon ''!!  :)

 

 

 

 

 Simpsons parody
 '' Gonna paint your wagon, gonna paint it fine. Gonna use oil-based paint, 'cause the wood is pine. ''
Logged

" They just don't make then like this anymore ."      " I just don't meet then like him anymore !! "
Matt
Global Moderator
Member Extraordinaire
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14885



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2016, 11:56:47 PM »


I wonder that when Ben's first sees Elizabeth, she has nursing a baby but after they get married, the baby disappears. ??? Was it explained somewhere what happened with her baby?

Yes, it was explained. It was Jacob's other wife's baby. Jacob explained just before they agreed to auction Elizabeth off that her baby had died two weeks previously.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Go Up Print 
 




C L I N T E A S T W O O D . N E T