News: Now showing in theaters: CRY MACHO, directed by and starring Clint Eastwood!


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Author Topic: Eastwood to Direct Juror #2 for Warner Bros as Final Film  (Read 13038 times)
Hocine
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« Reply #80 on: July 19, 2023, 10:34:05 AM »

I hope that Juror #2 will not be canceled. That project seems promising and different from the last Clint films.
Let us be optimistic. I also hope that the thousands of people who work in the film industry will have a happy ending.
What are your thoughts ?
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AKA23
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« Reply #81 on: July 19, 2023, 02:05:43 PM »

I think the movie will likely be finished. I tried to research whether once filming has begun if Warners could cancel it due to the strike, or whether the actors and crew were legally obligated to continue with the film once the strike is over and the film has resumed production, but I wasn't able to find an answer. I know pilots can be cancelled, and studios can not move forward with a green lit show, but I don't know about films. 

I think that the actors and writers appear to have very legitimate concerns. The world of TV and film has changed and the compensation structures of the old system don't fit the current system. For example, compensation is usually on a per episode basis, but with streaming, there are far fewer episodes being produced per season of a show. 6, 8, or 10, instead of 22 episodes a season. Also, the residuals for playing on broadcast TV are apparently much higher than streaming, which doesn't make sense when so many more shows are being streamed. Also, actors and writers don't appear to be compensated based on the popularity of the show, which doesn't really make sense because if someone has written a hugely popular show that gets tens or hundreds of millions of views, since they originated the ideas, they should, arguably be compensated accordingly, but they're not. The most difficult issue to resolve is the issue of AI. If Chat GPT can write a script, does that make writers in many cases for many genres of film unnecessary? That would be a huge cost savings for the studios but crippling for the writers. I don't think the technology is really there for Chat GPT to write a script yet at the same level of quality as a writer, but it will likely get there, as the algorithms improve. As so many movies are formulaic, a computer can probably be trained to churn out permutations of the same formula. A film that requires a lot of originality or creativity or that is highly character, rather than plot driven, that would likely be difficult to effectively reproduce with AI, but Fast and the Furious 11? It probably will eventually be capable of being written by a computer. Also, if actors are increasingly deep faked, technology likely will at some point get to the point where we can reproduce a performance, such that it would be indistinguishable from a live actor, but I think that's likely a longer way off.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2023, 02:08:27 PM by AKA23 » Logged
AKA23
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« Reply #82 on: July 19, 2023, 02:09:30 PM »

Question for everyone. If we could put all Clint Eastwood movies into a computer, so there would be dozens of performances to draw from, to create a new performance, would you all be interested in seeing a "Clint Eastwood" film that contains a performance that is not actually being acted out by him? Or, since you know it's not actually him, would that deter you from watching that kind of performance in the future?
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The Highlander
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« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2023, 02:51:16 AM »

I think it would be enjoyable, but would still not be the same experience since only Clint's AI likeness/voice would be in such a movie.  But it would be intriguing.

For example, just imagine if Clint was able to convince the estate of John Wayne to participate in such a production.  We could finally see a movie "co-starring" the two greatest Hollywood western legends of all time.

Would seem a bit hollow in many ways, but would still be irresistable to watch.
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Gant
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« Reply #84 on: July 20, 2023, 09:00:30 AM »

I certainly would not be interested..
It wouldnt be Clint acting..
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LB13
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« Reply #85 on: July 20, 2023, 12:28:58 PM »

I think we're getting a glimpse of that with the number of AI covers of songs that are being made right now. I heard a computer Frank Sinatra cover songs such as "Young and Beautiful" by Lana Del Rey or "Gangsta's Paradise" by Coolio. I'd lie if I said it wasn't an enjoyable experience, and I believe some interesting combinations can come out of that, but, at the end of the day, I don't think it's just Sinatra's voice that we've been missing. It's his personality, it's his presence, his creativity, what he brought into the rooms he stepped in. Maybe we're not far removed from a version of Dirty Harry that uses AI to put Sinatra in the lead role (as he was briefly attached to the project in real life, while Clint was busy making Misty), and it might provide for an interesting viewing, but it will be just a reproduction of existing material.

Same goes for any AI Eastwood - sure, the project may be fine in its own right, but I think, as fans of Clint Eastwood, we're not drawn to his soft voice or his squinting eyes. We're drawn to Clint Eastwood the person - Clint Eastwood the person can choose his films, his scripts, his roles. His presence in a film is a statement of its own, it's what the film tells us about Eastwood himself. What is he trying to say by this decision? Why does he act this scene this particular way? What commentary is he making, and on what?

I believe that, with AI, we're entering a new era of not just cinema, but history in general, comparable in significane to the invention of the printing press. An actor, a musician, now is not just their physical qualities - those can be reproduced. We're trying to find an "essence" of what made them the people they were. If Eastwood isn't just the way he minimalistically utters his lines - what is he? If Sinatra wasn't just his singing voice - what was he?

I try to keep an open mind about it. I have no doubt in my mind that AI may someday produce a film that I'd find enjoyable. But now more than ever, the job of creating meaning, is dependent on us as the audience. Suppose AI generates a new Johnny Cash song - AI didn't have the fight for the common man in mind when it made the song. It's a computer, it doesn't know what it's like being handed the short end of the stick in life. But maybe that's how I interpret this new song - it's not that far from how we clash regarding our interpretation of art today. For some, Taxi Driver is a study of loneliness. For some, Taxi Driver is a study of how New York is a $#!thole. Who's to say who's right? Scorsese? Schrader? I think it's whoever watches the film.

I'm confident we're now about to witness a string of those gimmick-y uses of AI in film or in music that use AI as an extension of existing material. Somebody's going to make a song featuring a deceased musician, somebody's going to make a film starring a deceased actor. Fair enough, maybe I'll get some kick out of it - the Terence Hill/Bud Spencer Trinity films act as my comfort cinema, so maybe I'd actually enjoy an AI-generated new instalment in the series. But it would be sad to forever live in the past, with AI reproducing the same kind of film over and over and over again to a point where nothing new is being made, there are no risks taken, no challenges made.

We're still in the early stages of the AI revolution - as with many new technologies throughout history, we now try to use it as a tool. When they started making movies in the first place, they'd essentially do them like plays in theater, only recorded. Cinema only became great when it stopped trying to be theater and learned how to stand on its own legs; when it learned how to use the motion picture technology to tell stories in a way that only motion picture technology could. Same will happen to AI - and only time can tell what AI can bring us.

 
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Gant
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« Reply #86 on: July 21, 2023, 12:23:45 AM »

Well put LB13
Interesting reading
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Christopher
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« Reply #87 on: July 21, 2023, 01:38:29 PM »

Not specifically on topic, but on the topic of using deceased actors, we did already see this with Rogue One using Peter Cushing's character from the original Star Wars.
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Gant
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« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2023, 11:47:29 AM »

Was that considered successful ?
I heard mixed feelings on it..
Tho I guess that was a few years ago and the tech moves so fast
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Christopher
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« Reply #89 on: July 24, 2023, 06:57:52 AM »

I guess it went over OK. They did the same thing in that movie with a young Princess Leia, I believe.

I wouldn't want to see a new Peter Cushing movie (it's a frightening thought that he could still be teamed up with Christopher Lee for a movie), of course, but it was interesting to see them use his image for the sake of having his character present. And I'm sure his estate/family signed off on that.

Didn't Space Cowboys do that to get a young Clint Eastwood, or did they just take old footage of him and put it into the movie?
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Hocine
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« Reply #90 on: July 24, 2023, 04:34:21 PM »

I guess it went over OK. They did the same thing in that movie with a young Princess Leia, I believe.

I wouldn't want to see a new Peter Cushing movie (it's a frightening thought that he could still be teamed up with Christopher Lee for a movie), of course, but it was interesting to see them use his image for the sake of having his character present. And I'm sure his estate/family signed off on that.

Didn't Space Cowboys do that to get a young Clint Eastwood, or did they just take old footage of him and put it into the movie?

In the opening sequence of Space Cowboys, young Frank Corvin was actually played by Toby Stephens: I think a mole was added above his upper lip to look more like Clint.

In Trouble With the Curve, some footage from Firefox were used.

Some footage from Dirty Harry were used for In the Line Of Fire. Do you remember, in the beginning of the film, the scene where Al D?Andrea and Frank Horrigan look at a photo on the wall of Mitch Leary flat ? Al D?Andrea recognized Frank Horrigan: that photo was probably from Coogans Bluff.
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Gant
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« Reply #91 on: July 25, 2023, 12:04:28 AM »

I guess the important point here is permission. Eastwood obviously gave permission in his own films.
But when an actor has passed and has no say in the matter what then ?
Peter Cushing had no family/relatives so Im not sure what the deal was there.. will studios claim ownership
of an actors likeness if they own the movies they?ve acted in, in the past.

I can see why they needed the Cushing likeness so maybe that was exceptional circumstances.. but I
wouldnt want to see deceased actors featured in films/roles theyve had no say in..
Its not like the actual actors involved will be making any actual acting choices or decisions which is kind
of integral to their whole performance..

Eastwood has made a career out of stretching himself as an artist and often making unusual and risky
film choices, Would a (cartoon) Eastwood be dammed with churning out countless Dirty Harry sequels or even worse
an Unforgiven follow up..
« Last Edit: July 25, 2023, 12:06:01 AM by Gant » Logged

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AKA23
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« Reply #92 on: July 25, 2023, 06:44:15 AM »

LB has done a wonderfully thought-provoking post on this. I think I'm closer to Gant on this, that I probably would not be as interested in seeing an AI version of Clint in future movies. I'd be willing to give it a chance, but I think I'd feel that if it's not him doing it, it would lose its appeal for me, and part of the attraction to Clint's films is seeing how his career evolves and progresses over the years, which wouldn't really be applicable to an AI version of him. I also wouldn't want to see the same types of films made over and over again. I appreciate the departures he took in his career, like "Million Dollar Baby," and "A Perfect World," that would likely not be able to be as successfully done using a computer algorithm. I also think that there may be major legal and rights issues with using an AI version of an actor without their express permission. It is impressive that the potential of the technology getting to the place where this is even possible is becoming closer to a reality.
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Hocine
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« Reply #93 on: July 26, 2023, 09:54:03 AM »

Film industry and cinema evolved with new technologies.
Then, AI will surely offer unprecedented possibilities in artistic activities.
However, if a film were made by computers using Clint image, I would not consider it as a true Clint Eastwood film.
Actually, I would probably consider it as something close to video games. In the same state of mind, I am not fond of de-aging techniques. In my point of view, Clint has to act and live the filming, in order to consider it as his film as an actor. It must be silly but it is what it is. In fact, the cinema that I like and that I am used to experience is basically about human beings and made by and for human beings. I know that the editing process itself, which is essential in filmmaking, is already an alteration of reality. But AI is something different. Eventually, it is up to Clint to decide whether his image can be used digitally or not in the future.
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Gant
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« Reply #94 on: July 26, 2023, 03:15:47 PM »

Video game, exactly... Well put Hocine
« Last Edit: July 26, 2023, 11:54:57 PM by Gant » Logged

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Christopher
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« Reply #95 on: July 26, 2023, 04:46:08 PM »

In the opening sequence of Space Cowboys, young Frank Corvin was actually played by Toby Stephens: I think a mole was added above his upper lip to look more like Clint.

In Trouble With the Curve, some footage from Firefox were used.

Some footage from Dirty Harry were used for In the Line Of Fire. Do you remember, in the beginning of the film, the scene where Al D?Andrea and Frank Horrigan look at a photo on the wall of Mitch Leary flat ? Al D?Andrea recognized Frank Horrigan: that photo was probably from Coogans Bluff.
Oh, right, I do remember hearing about that years ago for the younger version of the character in Space Cowboys.
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Gant
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« Reply #96 on: July 27, 2023, 10:01:42 AM »

Space Cowboys was Clint?s most recent film when I joined this board 😁
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Christopher
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« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2023, 01:17:42 PM »

Space Cowboys was Clint?s most recent film when I joined this board 😁
I think it would be the same for me too. Blood Work would have came out a little after.
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Gant
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« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2023, 01:28:07 PM »

I was lucky enough to see Blood Work at the cinema too,  that doesnt seem so long ago 😁
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« Reply #99 on: July 29, 2023, 05:08:48 PM »

I've seen each Eastwood film at the cinema since "White Hunter , Black Heart" ,33 years ago. I was 15 .
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