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Author Topic: Once Upon Time Vs. Good Bad Ugly  (Read 30538 times)
MakeItVin
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« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2004, 09:18:10 PM »

Well, Bronson had a late start on his career, and I've read that his face wasn't "pretty" enough for him to play the LEAD leads.  I don't agree with that at all, but I've read that somewhere.  I wouldn't call him "stiff", but I've never seen a clever look from him and he always gets pretty straightforward lines.  I agree that he's a man with no name but not THE man with no name.  
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ScreamingEagle
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« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2004, 02:48:50 AM »

Yes...? What point are you trying to make? My point was that Harmonica is boring, while the man with no name (from the Dollars trilogy) isn't.

but the point u said that Harmonica is boring because doesn't talk much, the point I'm trying to make is that THE Man with no name didn't talk much either.
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Kal Varnsen
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« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2004, 06:46:17 AM »

I didn't say he is boring because he doesn't talk much, I said he is boring because he (and I quote) doesn't do much of anything at all.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2004, 10:06:08 AM by KC » Logged
KC
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« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2004, 10:10:23 AM »

Kal Varnsen, your above post has been edited to remove an insult to another member.  Please keep things on this board polite. Please see the FAQ:
http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=151
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Kal Varnsen
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« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2004, 01:01:27 PM »

The real insult is that ScreamingEagle responded to my posts without reading them first.
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mgk
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« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2004, 01:13:19 PM »

All of this is just opinions anyway, misread or not.  Obviously Charles Bronson is not Clint Eastwood.  Now let's move on.
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Ady
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« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2004, 03:33:22 PM »

I love The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. I also love Once Upon a Time in the West. IMO they are the two greatest westerns ever made, although admittedly I haven't seen The Wild Bunch, but I've seen other films by Sam Pekinpah and while I enjoyed them, I don't think they hold a candle to Leone's films.
Once Upon a Time in the West does run at a slow pace, but I don't think that detracts from the film at all, the cinematography, musical score by Ennio Morricone and the performances are breath taking.
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ScreamingEagle
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« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2004, 01:04:19 PM »

Look, Kal Varnson, I don't know what u said to offend me (as KC edited the post before I read it) but I was just trying to clear things up of what u meant. He does play an (obviously) important role in Once Upon A Time In The West. The story would not had been very short without him.

I will say this though, Once Upon A Time In The West is different compared to Leone's other Spaghetti Westerns, as it really isn't a Spaghetti Western nor a classical western. It's a spaghetti western in terms of:
- Directed by Sergio Leone
- Score by Ennio Morricone
- Some scenes filmed in Spain and Italy
- Some Spanish and Italian actors and actresses

and a classical western in the terms of:
- Mainly filmed in John Fords Monument Valley
- Big Budget
- Mainly American actors and actresses
- Big name American actors like Charles Bronson and Henry Fonda

I love the film for those reasons, that it combines the Spaghetti Western genre with the Classical Western genre.
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1861navycolt
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« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2004, 12:28:54 AM »

I posted this thread originally last October after investigating some westerns I might like to see.  Well I did end up buying the DVD when it came out but I wanted to watch it a few times before I commented.  I see it has turned into a fued rather than a discussion but that is pretty standard.  Anyway...Here is my fragmented review....First off I really liked OUATITW.  I thought that Frank was a good villian.  Even though he killed that family I don't think of him as purely evil.  Angel Eyes was way more intimidating than Frank but Frank was a unique bad guy. I agree that Jill was just too beautiful as several of you have noted.  Harmonica was somewhat of an oddball and the love expressed for him is a little beyond me.  I liked Cheyenne the best and he brought some needed warmth to the movie.  I loved the opening scenes.  I thought the plot of the movie could have been tied together a little better.  It is somewhat confusing still after having watched it 3 times.  I was dissapointed with the sexual scenes but especially with the scene where Harmonica tosses Jill down and tears her clothes.  Alot was implied there and I don't enjoy seeing that kind of stuff in a movie.  I think the movie was a little slow paced but GBU is slow at times as well.  The movie was at it's best when Harmonica and Cheyenne were onscreen at the same time.  It seems like we could have had more of that.  I still rank GBU as a better movie but I think OUATITW was better than most of Eastwoods westerns.  Too bad 'ole Cheyenne had to die.  Why couldn't Harmonica stay?  Why?  He had found a woman who probably would have loved him and he had finally killed the man who murdered his brother. What else could a man in his shoes ask for?  Personally I like happy endings and this left a bittersweet taste in my mouth. GBU leaves you smiling.  :D
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il buono
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« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2004, 01:04:48 PM »

I can see where people might think that OUATITW is slow but it's far from boring.  And as far as Harmonica not doing much of anything at all,  I love the way he waits for his moment, even killing Frank's would be murderers, so that he could have his moment of vengeance.  The fact that he is so calm is great because you know that inside he's just seething.  All I can say is that I love this movie.  It and GBU are my favorite movies period.  
« Last Edit: March 30, 2004, 01:07:40 PM by il buono » Logged
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« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2004, 05:59:42 AM »

I'm not supprised that most people on the Clint Eastwood webboard vote for GBU...

Anyway, West must really be compared to Unforgiven, rather than GBU.
As Unforgiven is Clint's farewell to westerns, so is West Leone's farewell to westerns.

West is a film about the "old" west must give way to the "new" west.
In the start of the film we see harmonica, frank and cheyenne doing their usual business, but as the film progresses (and the railway comes nearer) it becomes more and more clear that thees classic figures from the old west must give way for the new west: Civilisation, transatlantic railways etc.

The final duel between frank and harmonica is enivetiable. Harmonica must settle the score with frank, and frank, who's boss is dead and now has no work, has nowhere else to go and is curious to find out what harmonica is here to revenge.

And the final sequence in West summarizes it all: The bandits and killers from the old west is either dead or are riding out to nowhere, and the railways has now reach the city - thus turning the wild west into the civilised west.

And although GBU is a very good film, I would still say that West is superior. It seams that there has gone a lot more research and thinking into the making and filming of West.
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Philo Beddoe Jr
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« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2004, 07:15:21 PM »

I've only seen OAATITW once, and I suppose it deserves a rewatch soon.  
At the time I watched it I found it to be the lesser film, and although sometimes on rewatching a film years later these things can change, based on my memories, I doubt it will ever exceed GBU for me, although I expect that I might enjoy it more second time around.
So to conclude my rant:  GBU is the superior film.

WKC.

I just watched the SE DVD of OUTW and I have to say that I will stick with my earlier verdict.  

I think that with this film Leone reached for a sense of 'grandeur' which  he failed to grasp.  I admire the effort, but it is deeply flawed to the point of resulting in an often painful moviegoing experience.  Some key scenes are so 'overdone' that I cringed at the sad ruination of what could have been.  Comparing these scenes to the 'sparce' brilliance of the equivalent key scenes in GBU showed me a director and or editor who had not kept a tight enough hand on their work.

WKC.
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john baldwin
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« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2004, 04:55:13 AM »

they are twice marvelous, but I prefer GBU
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« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2004, 12:21:45 PM »

WKC

I believe that Leone HAS manageded to get a grandiour feeling to OUATIW. Every shot is somewhat lavish, but it is why the film is so good. Picture, music, dialouge and acting turns into a higher level. Especially the interaction between the picture and the music is faboules. Just look at the scene where frank comes back to morton's railwaycarrige, only to find everybody shot down: Frank's horse is actually riding in sync with the rhytme of the music! And so it goes throughout the film.

And on a futher notice,
OUATIW is actually a "film within a film", as film and art historian and sergio leone biographer sir christopher frayling explains in his biograph of leone and on the commetary track on the dvd.
Prior to writing the script, sergio and associates saw all the classic westerns from the 50's and 60's - the golden area of the western. OUATIW is full of homages to all theese classic westerns, thus becomming perhaps the first post modernistic film - and beating tarantino's Pulp Fiction by some 30 years!

Theese homages, combined with the grandeur of the film, the interaction between music and picture, makes this my favourite over GBU.
GBU is still a fantastic film, though. One of my absolute favourites...
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MakeItVin
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« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2004, 07:36:02 PM »

Ady -

I have "The Wild Bunch" on VHS, which has a 30-minute "making of" preamble.  Awesome flick!!!  Get it, whatever you do!!!  

Meanwhile, FAFDM rules!!!

'.....put it on the tripod......!!!'    ;D
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« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2004, 02:46:01 AM »

ouatiw is to me pretenious - i prefer the good the bad and the ugly the story is better and the acting is better
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« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2004, 03:33:36 PM »

Ady -

I have "The Wild Bunch" on VHS, which has a 30-minute "making of" preamble.  Awesome flick!!!  Get it, whatever you do!!!  

Meanwhile, FAFDM rules!!!

'.....put it on the tripod......!!!'    ;D

I'm sure I'll buy it some day and wonder why I hadn't bought it sooner.  :)
I love FAFDM too, my third favourite western.
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« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2004, 06:27:45 PM »

OUATITW is a really good movie.  I guess it is considered more "adult" because it deals with themes more than people.  However, I don't think it is nearly as enjoyable as TGTBATU.

Charles Bronson was good in his role.  He was also good in Hard Times, a film I hadn't seen until they played it on TV when he died.

Henry Fonda, I guess I don't really see the big deal about him.  Maybe I'm too young to know or care about why him being the bad guy is important. Maybe he was miscast as was Jason Robards.  They were fine in their roles but I think others could have done it more convincingly.  I can't see anyone outdoing Clint, Van Cleef, or Wallach in their roles.
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« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2004, 05:55:08 PM »

GBU is my absolute favorite Eastwood movie. I must have seen it 47 times.
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ScreamingEagle
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« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2004, 02:21:05 AM »

Henry Fonda, I guess I don't really see the big deal about him.  Maybe I'm too young to know or care about why him being the bad guy is important. Maybe he was miscast as was Jason Robards.

The idea of having Henry Fonda as a bad guy was very important. He's been in a lot of John Ford American Westerns as the good guy, his full filmography is below.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000020/

When he was starring in the role of Frank (the blue-eyed, women and child killer), when he emerges from the brush advancing towards the remaining child, when the audience would finally see his face and see it was Henry Fonda, the audience was expected to be shocked and shout 'Jesus Christ, It's Henry Fonda!!!'
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