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Author Topic: Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith  (Read 25408 times)
Chessie
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« Reply #80 on: May 26, 2005, 06:37:42 PM »

Loved the movie so much but hated this part:

Anakin: "You are so beautiful."
Padme: "That is because I am SO in love."
Anakin: "No, it's because I'M so in love."

Wow, was that really necessary?

Yeah what was up that dialogue, it really did nothing. 

And, did anyone find the "NOOOOOO!!!" as tacky as I did?
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« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2005, 09:14:18 PM »

Yeah what was up that dialogue, it really did nothing. 

And, did anyone find the "NOOOOOO!!!" as tacky as I did?

The NNNOOOO!!! was terrible indeed.


**SPOILERS**


My dislikes about the film:

 - The opening battles felt dull and the droids on Obi-Wans ship were... ugh... bad.

 - Count Dooku was a waste of time. He showed up and probably could have done something worth while but he doesn't. They had to get rid of him fast because he wasn't killed in Episode II.

 - Padme.... she served no purpose in the movie other then to give birth to Luke an Leia at the end.

 - Gen. Grevious was pointless and not even explained. Who was he?  What was he? I know he was a droid but he seemed to have a human heart and human eyes and what not... so what was he?

 - The Anakin vs. Obi-wan duel lasted too long.

 - Anakin's turn to the darkside was pretty quick and lame. "Hey boy, I can make you make people live longer." "Really?" "Yep." "Wait a minute... do I have to join the dark side?" "Yep." "Oh fine." "Awsome! Your training shall begin, now kneel down and I will magically telepathically transfer the dark side knowledge to you even though that's not what I'm doing but in order for you to have the power we'll just for-go the 'training' I mentioned and just say you have the power so you can use it to fight Obi-wan and make Padme cry at the end of this movie." "Ah... ok?"

 - The battle on Wookiemania was pointless. Seriously, what purpose did it serve? It showed Chewbacca. Wow. Was there a reason to show Chewy? No. The only purpose it served was so that Yoda would be away from the Jedi Council building so Anakin wouldn't go all badass on him.

 - The dialogue was terrible at some points.

 - The acting was still pretty bad from most the major players.

 - Shouldn't the Jedi's (Yoda, Obi-Wan, Jimmy Smits) felt the "force" in Luke and Leia? And known there were twins? They do have those Micro-DeLoreans thingys in them you know.

 - "Yo-yo! Obi-wan, you know who you can talk to know? Qui-Gon man." "Master Qui-Gon? Really?! AWSOME!" "Yeah, but now that we've got the audiences hopes up to see Qui-Gon we won't show him even though when we mention that you can talk to him every expects us to actually show that. But we won't. 'Cause... well, you know... yah."

 - "I'm Jimmy Smits! I finally get lines! I will take Leia. My wife and I always wanted to adopt a girl since my guys can't the job done." "Cool. Luke to his planet Obi-Wan you will take." "What?" "Luke to his planet Obi-Wan you will take." "Ah.... Oh! I know what you're saying Master Yoda. You want me to take Luke to the planet where we found Anakin so he can live in poverty for the rest of his life while Leia lives it up in luxury?" "Yes." "AWSOME!"

But even through all that, I liked the film. I liked it A LOT better then the first two but I think the reason I liked was because I had no anticipation for it at all (I even forgot when it opened only to remember the day after). And I was just really disapointed by the first two so I figured that this one couldn't suck anymore.
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Chessie
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« Reply #82 on: May 26, 2005, 10:51:14 PM »

Well that's an interesting way of putting your dislikes Brendan.  But, I personally didn't find it that bad.  The only thing that bothered me was the NOOOOO.  And that one scene brought up earlier "I'm so in love you," oh please.   :D  Oh yeah and what was up with the Qui-Gon thing?  ???
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« Reply #83 on: May 26, 2005, 11:16:04 PM »

Oh yeah and what was up with the Qui-Gon thing?  ???

  It setup the "back from the dead as a ghost" scenes in "Empire" and "Jedi"...Obi-Wan apparently learns from Qui-Gon how to do this.
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little_bill
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« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2005, 03:10:08 AM »

  It setup the "back from the dead as a ghost" scenes in "Empire" and "Jedi"...Obi-Wan apparently learns from Qui-Gon how to do this.
Bing, exactly.
i am so sick of explaining that to people, did the world take a dumb pill when i was at the toilet!!!!!

Quote from: Brendan
Padme.... she served no purpose in the movie other then to give birth to Luke an Leia at the end.
well it's a pretty big purpose, plus she was the motivation for anakin to turn.
Quote from: Brendan
The Anakin vs. Obi-wan duel lasted too long.
nah we've been waiting for this fight since the prequels began. i thought it was perfect

Quote from: Brendan
- Shouldn't the Jedi's (Yoda, Obi-Wan, Jimmy Smits) felt the "force" in Luke and Leia? And known there were twins? They do have those Micro-DeLoreans thingys in them you know.
hang on a minute since when did senator bail organa become a jedi? there's no mention of that anywhere.
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« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2005, 02:15:20 PM »

  It setup the "back from the dead as a ghost" scenes in "Empire" and "Jedi"...Obi-Wan apparently learns from Qui-Gon how to do this.

Ohhh I totally get it now!!! Ha!  :D
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dane with no name
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« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2005, 10:36:48 AM »

You raise some valid questions Brendan, and i´ll try to answer them the best i can. Some of the questions you asked has been answered in the star wars animated tv serie that take place during the clone war, so here goes...

Quote
- Count Dooku was a waste of time. He showed up and probably could have done something worth while but he doesn't. They had to get rid of him fast because he wasn't killed in Episode II.

Somewhat true, but remember that he is the emperors apprentice, since Attack of the clones. With the clonewar going on for several years, it woulds seem odd that the emperor didnt get a new apprentice during the war if Dooku had been killed before the war actually startet back in episode 2. It also becomes obvious that the emperor has no need for dooku anymore, he´s brought anakin into the fold, ready to make him fall.

Quote
- Gen. Grevious was pointless and not even explained. Who was he?  What was he? I know he was a droid but he seemed to have a human heart and human eyes and what not... so what was he?

Gen. Grievious is a cyborg, not a droid. My knowledge of his origin is limited but here is what i know ; The seperatists were avare that their battledroids were no match for the jedi in single combat, so they tried to clone a jedi themselves and add all sorts of bioware to create the ultimate hand to hand battledroid. The experiment was a failure because jedies cant be cloned due to the midi clorians. They took what they could use from the experiment and added it to the droid general in order to make him more powerfull. The seperatists were aware that grievous would be a prime target for the jediknights so they hoped that this would give him an edge. What they hadnt counted on was that the general would attain some part of the humanity that the cloneleftovers had. He than took the sithname Grievous instead of his robotic name. All his coughing and gagging is the result of a battle against a young boba fett who were hired to take grievous down. Grievous won the fight and left boba fett for dead.

Quote
- The Anakin vs. Obi-wan duel lasted too long.
I dont think so, and as Conan said
Quote
we've been waiting for this fight since the prequels began.
spoiler
plus i like the fact that the duel ended almost the same way that the duel between Obi wan and Dart Maul in Ep. 1 ended. Obi wan had been in the same situation against maul that anakin were in, so obi wan had an edge. He knew the only way anakin could ever attack him effectively.
spoiler ends
 

Quote
- Anakin's turn to the darkside was pretty quick and lame. "Hey boy, I can make you make people live longer." "Really?" "Yep." "Wait a minute... do I have to join the dark side?" "Yep." "Oh fine." "Awsome! Your training shall begin, now kneel down and I will magically telepathically transfer the dark side knowledge to you even though that's not what I'm doing but in order for you to have the power we'll just for-go the 'training' I mentioned and just say you have the power so you can use it to fight Obi-wan and make Padme cry at the end of this movie." "Ah... ok?"

Anakin already knows how to use the force at this point, all he needs is to know how to use the dark side of it. The Sith use the force by looking within themselves and use their feelings (anger, hatred, fear, sorrow e.t.c.)to gain their jedi powers. anakin had to "cultivate" and understand these feelings in order for the dark side to corrupt him. This is done through the slaughter of all that is good, and is rewarded by the dark side. In essence this means that the more evil you do, the more powerfull you become. When anakin uses his dark powers against padme and obi wan all he really does is progress those feelings out towads them. Sort of like if you wish some annoying guy would just fall over and die, but here it actually works that way.

Quote
The only purpose it served was so that Yoda would be away from the Jedi Council building so Anakin wouldn't go all badass on him.
I´d say that´s a pretty good purpose. It builds up to the ending, gives anakin time to be corrupted, and with yoda in the jedi academy i think the ending would have been quite different, and the emperor out looking for a new apprentice...  ;)

Quote
- Shouldn't the Jedi's (Yoda, Obi-Wan, Jimmy Smits) felt the "force" in Luke and Leia? And known there were twins? They do have those Micro-DeLoreans thingys in them you know.

Who says they didnt? It wasnt shown, but it seems pretty obvious that Obi wan stays on tatooine in order for him to one day train Luke. Obi wan says in episode 4 that he wanted to give luke his fathers lightsaber but that lukes uncle wouldnt allow it.
 

Quote
- "Yo-yo! Obi-wan, you know who you can talk to know? Qui-Gon man." "Master Qui-Gon? Really?! AWSOME!" "Yeah, but now that we've got the audiences hopes up to see Qui-Gon we won't show him even though when we mention that you can talk to him every expects us to actually show that. But we won't. 'Cause... well, you know... yah."

This actually raise a sidequestion i cant answer, but let´s take that later. It solves a question that´s been on a lot of SW fans mind for some time. Why didnt Qui gon dissapear the way Yoda and Obi wan does when they die?
The answer is that Yodas and Obi Wans knowledge about the force is so great that they can now commune with those who´ve joined the force (died) they have become the force themselves (the only way to contact the dead), only holding on to their human form in order to interact with the living world. 

sidequestion : i´m curious about is  how luke were able to see Obi wans ghost on Hoth? The training he has with obi wan in episode 4 is limited at best. One option could be that luke is dying himself and thus can see the dead. Obi wan having learned how to contact the living/dead the same way qui gon apparently has then tells luke that he must survive, but it´s still only guessing for my part...

Quote
- "I'm Jimmy Smits! I finally get lines! I will take Leia. My wife and I always wanted to adopt a girl since my guys can't the job done." "Cool. Luke to his planet Obi-Wan you will take." "What?" "Luke to his planet Obi-Wan you will take." "Ah.... Oh! I know what you're saying Master Yoda. You want me to take Luke to the planet where we found Anakin so he can live in poverty for the rest of his life while Leia lives it up in luxury?" "Yes." "AWSOME!"

Again, this raise a sidequestion i really cant answer but here goes ; The jedies dont want to carry all their eggs in one basket. If the twins were together, anakin could grab them both in one swoop. Leia goes to alderaan to be trained to become a senator to try and oppose the emperor in the senate, and luke goes to tatooine to become a future jedi knight to battle the sith. (books written about star wars after the movies tells that luke has the highest midi clorian count of the two twins)
Sidequestion : In ep. 6 luke asks leia if she can remember her mother, leia answers
Quote
sometimes, i remember she was very beautyfull, and very sad
eerrrhhh.... can anyone help me out here? Leia must have a pretty good memory if she remembers her mother  :o One option could be that she was never told that she was an adopted orphan, and she thn really thinks about her adoptedf mother, but it´s still pretty thin...



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gimpy
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« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2005, 03:03:33 PM »

Wow Dane, you really know your stuff and answered most of my questions, thanks.  O0
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« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2005, 02:32:15 AM »

Hey thanks dane, I am really getting into Star Wars now.   O0
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little_bill
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« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2005, 05:20:20 AM »

jimmy smits was not a bloody jedi!!!!!
he was a senator!!!!

my sidequestions would be
A, in epIII the new death star is being consructed, it's unleashed aprox 16 years later in epIV, then how come a second one is 75% operational in epVI with only a fraction of the time.
B, how old was dooku when he became sidious apprentice? it seems strange, he couldn't have been around in epI because  yoda says there are always two, no more no less. so he recruited a pensioner for his apprentice!?!
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« Reply #90 on: May 30, 2005, 11:13:26 AM »

Remember when Lord Sidious was talking to Anakin about the powerful Sith lord that was so powerful that he "can save lives" and "couldn't save himself" because he was scared to lose such a power? Was Sidious referring to his master?
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« Reply #91 on: May 30, 2005, 12:02:25 PM »

Remember when Lord Sidious was talking to Anakin about the powerful Sith lord that was so powerful that he "can save lives" and "couldn't save himself" because he was scared to lose such a power? Was Sidious referring to his master?
it's fairley vague alright isn't it?
you would think he was but you'd have to assume no because otherwise he'd know how to save people
"he taught his apprentice everything he knew" but later says that anakin and himself will discover the secrets. you'd have to fall on the side of no, he wasn't, even though the delivery and filming making it sound like he was.
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Doug
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« Reply #92 on: May 31, 2005, 03:08:35 PM »


**SPOILERS**


 - Shouldn't the Jedi's (Yoda, Obi-Wan, Jimmy Smits) felt the "force" in Luke and Leia? And known there were twins? They do have those Micro-DeLoreans thingys in them you know.


Forget the Midi-clorians....  What about simple technology?  How could nobody know Padme was carrying twins? 

More questions: How come the Jedi could not detect the force in Supreme Chancellor Palpatine (Darth Sidious)?

How come Luke Skywalker keeps his name Skywalker if he's been given up for adoption, and is supposed to be kept hidden from his father?
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« Reply #93 on: May 31, 2005, 03:31:00 PM »

Also, wouldn't the Jedi council be able to detect a conspiracy involving all them Stormtroopers and the Republic via the force?
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dane with no name
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« Reply #94 on: May 31, 2005, 04:01:54 PM »

Good questions, Little_bill. Here´s how it goes.

Quote
A, in epIII the new death star is being consructed, it's unleashed aprox 16 years later in epIV, then how come a second one is 75% operational in epVI with only a fraction of the time.
The death star is a powerful weapon, but it isnt exactly the fastest moving piece of junk in the galaxy. Therefore the emperor decided to have THREE death stars build, so they would form a perimeter in each of the 3 sectors that the star wars universe is split into (The 3 sectors are called the Coreworlds (which includes Coruscant), middle rim (where Alderaan, Naboo, Bespin, and Kashyyk is ) and outer rim (Tatooine, Hoth, and Endor) The deathstar you see in ep. 3 (a guess, but you see a young grand moff tarkin standing next to vader and the emperor at the end) and 4 is the second one build. The first death star was a problemfilled prototype that was quickly and quietly send into orbit around a far away black hole in order to perform "test shots" and other experiments that could help gather data that the construction of the two other death stars would need.
The prototype could possibly be under construction during ep. 2 seeing as the seperatists talk about
Quote
the weapon we are trying to build
but i´m guessing here...

BTW :The prototype death star is eventually destroyed by han solo when he blasts the shield generator that keeps it  from being sucked into the black hole.

Quote
B, how old was dooku when he became sidious apprentice? it seems strange, he couldn't have been around in epI because  yoda says there are always two, no more no less. so he recruited a pensioner for his apprentice!?!
Certainly gives the title ; Grumpy old men a new meaning, doesnt it  ;).
I dont know how old count Dooku is, but i do know that
Palpatine recruits Dooku after the death of Darth Maul.

Dooku was a fully trained jedi when he was corrupted and may/may not have known Qui gon. Dooku hints to Obi wan in ep. 2 that he was trained by yoda, and that he might have trained Qui gon. Dooku recruits Jango fett under the alias Tyranus to sell his DNA to the caminoenans (the cloners) in order to create the republican clonearmy. The creation takes approx. 10 years for the first batch of clones to be ready, so if you add 10 years to the saga from ep. 1. to ep. 2. it fits together.
Mace Windu (Jackson) says in ep. 2. that Dooku was a former jedi who left the order and dissapeared. Dooku seems to fall due to his lust for power, as he say in ep. 2  
Quote
I´ve become more powerful than any jedi, even you.

Quote
it's fairley vague alright isn't it?
you would think he was but you'd have to assume no because otherwise he'd know how to save people
"he taught his apprentice everything he knew" but later says that anakin and himself will discover the secrets. you'd have to fall on the side of no, he wasn't, even though the delivery and filming making it sound like he was.
Good argument on the NO side, but consider this ;
Would the emperor promise the powers he didnt have to an potential upcomming powerfull apprentice? I dont think anakin would take it nice if he found out he had been cheated of the very reason he had for joining the dark side, and i dont think the emperor would like to have a bitter enemy in his own ranks.

I think that the sith secrets that the emperor are referring to are some older, forgotten secrets.
Here is a list of the most "known" :

1. During the first Sith war (thousands of years before the movies take place) refers to sithlords cabable of destroying whole planets with their knowledge of the dark side of the force (and the use of Khiber crystals.)

2. The location and creation of these rare before mentioned crystals magnify the powers of those force-users that use them 10.000 folds.
(The Khiber crystals is an invention of Lucas himself after having read the Snow Queen fairy tale by Hans Christian Andersen) and there were a lot of rumours about Lucas using the idea of Khiber crystals as being the downfall of anakin way back since before ep. 1.)

3. The secret of cloning a force-user. As earlier mentioned, jedis and siths cant be cloned due to the midi-clorians, but Palpatine mentions that Lord Plaugeis (the sith lord you are reffering to, who might/might not be palpatines master) knew how to make the midi clorians create life itself. I know that the emperor eventually learns this secret...
  
Quote
Hey thanks dane, I am really getting into Star Wars now.  
Glad to hear you like it, Lin  O0 How far have you come in your viewing of al six movies BTW ?

Quote
Wow Dane, you really know your stuff and answered most of my questions, thanks.
That´s because i dont have a ordinary life, but just "nerds" around in a corner  :D  ::)
Truth is that there´s been written a ton of star wars books, comics, cartoons, e.t.c. Some are very good, and some are EXTREMELY bad. the "problem" is that every script ever written has to be approved by lucas himself,so you´ll be guaranteed, that what is written is in the spirit of the star wars universe.

I usually talk with some of my friends who have been seduced by the dork side of the force. Listen to what they have to say about what they´ve read/seen/heard on the star wars web side, and then pick up what i think sounds promising. There are a lot of books and comics i highly recommend if you want to know what happends to luke and co. after the movies, but if i should pick something up it would be ;

Books ; Heir to the empire, a star wars trilogy by Timothy Zahn. A well known sci fi writer, even before he joined up with lucas.
Heir to the empire sees the rebels under attack by the highly intelligent Grand Admiral Thrawn after ROTJ.

Comics : EMPIRE ; BETRAYAL. In which a "young" darth vader and Emperor is betrayed by a clique of highranking conspirators within the empire. This is also the first time that Vader meets Boba fett...
The comic is well drawn, and the story reminds me of the old legends about roman senators who backstabbed each other whenever they saw an oppertunity.

DARK EMPIRE. In which Luke is confronted with an ressurected emperor (remember sithsecret 3 ;) )and FALLS to the dark side... It is now up to a pregnant Princess Leia who barely knows her fledgling jedi powers to save him. It was followed by DARK EMPIRE 2, which was okay, but not as great as the first, and concluded in EMPIRES END which is downright dissastrous...  :'(
    
BTW. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask them.
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dane with no name
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« Reply #95 on: May 31, 2005, 04:43:37 PM »

Quote
Forget the Midi-clorians....  What about simple technology?  How could nobody know Padme was carrying twins?
  Strong i am in the knowledge of star wars, but not that strong...  ;) She was probably too busy buying new dresses and robes to mention it to anakin  :D

Quote
More questions: How come the Jedi could not detect the force in Supreme Chancellor Palpatine (Darth Sidious)?

Mace Windu and Yoda talks in ep. 2 about revealing to the senate that their powers to reveal the dark presence of the sith is diminished
Quote
yoda ; the weil of the dark side clouds everything
so that´s part of the explanation.
the second part is that the sith and jedi have a way of hiding the force/dark force within them. Its called mindshielding and is usually used to avoid being "jedi mind tricked" by a stronger forceuser. This power has to be in use all the time, so it´s pretty damn difficult to keep up, but it is do-able.

the third part is that  after count Dooku reveals to Obi Wan that a dark lord of the sith rules the senate, the jedi keeps it at secret in order to root out the sith. But a senator finds out about this and talks in private to Chancellor Palpatine about taking blood samples from all senate members in order to find out who has Midi clorians in their blood. The senator later dies under mysterious circumstances...
And Palpatine then knows that the jedis are on his trail.

Quote
How come Luke Skywalker keeps his name Skywalker if he's been given up for adoption, and is supposed to be kept hidden from his father?
Because Luke is adopted by his "own family".  His mother married the moisturefarmer on tatooine (that she lived with untill she was killed by the sandpeople)
In the animated tv-series that takes place during the clone wars, anakin returns to tatooine to indulge in some sandpeople slaughter and learns that the farmer has taken on the name skywalker later on in honor of her. Anakin decides not to return to tatooine ever again because there is too many sad memories there, a plan he tells obi wan...
It is speculated that the reason that Uncle Owen (ep.4) dont want luke to join Obi Wan, is because he dont want to attract vaders attention...   

Quote
Also, wouldn't the Jedi council be able to detect a conspiracy involving all them Stormtroopers and the Republic via the force?

The force doesnt work quite that way. You would have to "force-sense" a lot of clonetrooper to find out that something is amiss. The jedi may have tested the first batch of clonetroopers, but when the clonewar reach it´s end, we are up on third or fourth generation of clonetroopers and they may have been implanted with order 66. The jedis who have been fighting along side the clonetroopers for nearly a decade isnt expecting an attack from that front.

Also if you think of order 66 as a implant in a brainwashed mind it would make more sense why a clonetrooper that Obi wan seems to be on friendly basis with gives obi wan his lightsaber after the fight with Gen. Grievous and only seconds later (when order 66 is given) blasts him from the cliffs above...
 
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« Reply #96 on: June 01, 2005, 06:51:25 AM »

don't forget for the sake of the older 3 movies leia's identity had to be a mystery to vader. when he discovered luke was his son, if he'd have known about the twins he would have sought the other child, whereas in EP VI he says"so you have a sister, obi wan was wise to hide her from me, now his failure is complete" so it was necessary for anakin to think that only the one baby existed.
okay now ythe dooku thing makes sense.

however the emperor clearly states after killing mace windu that he and anakin willl discover the power to keep people alive together, he doesn't know it and therefore couldn't be the apprentice. besides how would the jedi tell of darth plagus the wise ,as he asks anakin, if he was his master, the sith at that time were all secret so the jedi would not know them.
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« Reply #97 on: June 01, 2005, 12:27:55 PM »

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don't forget for the sake of the older 3 movies leia's identity had to be a mystery to vader.
True, but that still dont answer why padme didnt know about the twins she was carrying. One option could be that when Padme found out she was pregnant,she kept it at secret from everyone. The jedi knights were healers too, and such a healer would definetly be present when a senator gave birth (not only to ease the labor, but also check for potential future jedi with a midi clorian count, and the presence of a baby with an huge ammount of these would certainly raise some eyebrows.)

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however the emperor clearly states after killing mace windu that he and anakin willl discover the power to keep people alive together, he doesn't know it and therefore couldn't be the apprentice.

Apparently i dont remember the specific lines there, so i guess i´ll have to go watch it again  ;)

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besides how would the jedi tell of darth plagus the wise ,as he asks anakin, if he was his master, the sith at that time were all secret so the jedi would not know them.


hmmm. it would seem that you have almost turned me to the NO side, little_bill. Sidious do refer to the story as a Sith legend, and since a legend is an old story, it would seem a big possibility that the emperor isnt the pupil (unless he got the power of longelevity as yoda does)

BTW Lin. If you enjoyed store wars, you´re gonna love this  :D

http://www.theforce.net/fanfilms/shortfilms/troops/

it´s a small movie made by star wars fans. Basicly it´s an episode of COPS as it would have been made in the star wars universe.  O0

ALL SUSPECTS ARE GUILTY, PERIOD! OTHERWISE THEY WOULDNT BE SUSPECTS, WOULD THEY ?  ;D
« Last Edit: June 01, 2005, 12:57:43 PM by dane with no name » Logged
little_bill
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« Reply #98 on: June 01, 2005, 01:02:44 PM »

yeah i'm pretty sure thats what he says, i've only seen it five times though. here's an excuse to go back again.
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He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot.- Groucho Marx
dane with no name
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« Reply #99 on: June 01, 2005, 01:12:12 PM »

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i've only seen it five times though. here's an excuse to go back again.
Five times! WOW! I stand humbled in the presence of a master   ;) O0
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